Re: Sack Zidane thread

[futbol_bill]

Because he listens to Zidane, who says he is happy with squad!

[sportsczy]

And for those saying that ZZ controls transfers...

We signed 5 players in the summer. None of them have played basically AT ALL. Is that the sign of a manager who gets to choose the players that he wants? You tell me.

I'm sure many will ignore the facts and the history though.

[VanDeezNuts]

That is a fair point, we saw him use the bench a lot last season so we know he’s not opposed to using the full squad, but the players who have been used the least are the ones who came in the summer.

[Mr Nick09]

Yet at the same time he has abandoned both Asensio and Vasquez on the bench, two players he relied quite a lot on last season.

Also, when Ceballos played he has mostly been fantastic, why isn't he playing more?

Achraf played a lot when Carvajal went down, and then the spurs game happened...

he has also made some choices. If at least the new kids has been miserable when tested, i would have understood, for the most part they have not

Often when managers are stressed by the bad results of their teams, they tend to forgo rotating the squad and try to play their best eleven to secure points.

[Thimmy]

And for those saying that ZZ controls transfers...

We signed 5 players in the summer. None of them have played basically AT ALL. Is that the sign of a manager who gets to choose the players that he wants? You tell me.

I'm sure many will ignore the facts and the history though.

Haven't you been claiming for a few years now that Perez has a tendency of dictating that his own, hand-picked signings must start games? Or is that only the most expensive ones? If Perez is the one who picked them all, then he's being awfully patient with Zidane's reluctance to play them.

[VanDeezNuts]

I think that has only applied to the expensive ones, and even then James was on the bench for Carlo and Rafa’s years as well.

[futbol_bill]

With youth signings, it would have been the club’s scouts behind the recommendation, like the case of Kepa, it is the GK coach that is recommending it. BUT it also is the tradition at club that the coach is asked to ok the signing (s) as was the case of Canales with Mourinho. You can bet that Zidane had to be in agreement before these signings were done. After all all the signings were for backups positions. And the promotions of the two players most criticized were Zidane alone (Majoral and Arhraf). They were invited to training camp and their promotion was strickly a coach’s decision!

The fact that Zidane is not playing them is more in line with what Nick had to say.

This just Sports deflecting from the criticism.

[titosantill]

i'm sorry but as far as transfers go, both parties are culpable. the president takes initial blame, just based off the fact that he is the president. even if (hypothetical scenario), the coach requested all those players, and the president did the right thing by going with his coach's opinion, if the signings don't work out, the president must still take some blame....even if he did right by listening to his coach, its just part of their responsibility

zidane is also culpable; a manager's job is easier when they have a talented squad. more than tactics and all that, it is the manager's responsibility to say what kind of personnel he wants, you're the one going to manage and train the team, not the president or sporting director. what is likely to bring you success? taking a stand with the president or following status quo? i always say a manager must be a good salesman, players, board, asst coaches, have to buy into what you're selling

as far as those signings i (and i'll mention for the umpteenth time, i don't have inside info) maintain both parties made the decision. when you win back to back ucl's and you're a personality flo respects i think it would be weird for him to just make decisions without consulting you

the only time i can give a manager a pass on things like signings is if ALL transfers (purchases and sales) where done before the coach arrived. transfers is part of the manager's homework, you can't expect to manage and just let some directors do your homework for you regarding who should leave or stay.....i really doubt zidane just sat back and let flo do all that

whether we like it or not it was a mistake both parties made, even though it could lead to a job loss at the end, its not a witchhunt, things like this happen, to every club, big or small. it was a miscalculation and i hope we learn from it. though i doubt we will, cos we made a similar mistake less than 3/4 years ago

[Hapless_Hans]

Madrid are 4th in the league! And at this rate we're looking at champions league qualifier games.

No you're not. Well, yes you are 4th of course, but there's no necessity to go through qualifiers anymore. 4 fixed CL spots for top 4 leagues.

[sportsczy]

He didn't abandon Asensio... Asensio just stopped playing well at all. Isco took Asensio's job where I thought they were going to share duy to start the season... with the hope that Benz would get the boot at some point. But after an amazing supercup (which i think deceived everyone), Asensio went away.

Vasquez... would you rather play Isco, Kovacic or Vasquez? Because those are the choices.

[Mr Nick09]

It's not about what you prefer though, Zidane loooooved playing Vasquez last season. And Vasquez was performing great for him, that has completely stopped.

If Asensio is not playing due to lack of performances, what about Benzema? The kid needs game time to get better and better.

No matter how we slice it, there are shared responsibilities for transfers, and it trickles down to the coach who is the one making choices at the end of the day.

But then he benched our best player overall this season Isco in the biggest game this season to try some man marking BS against Messi.

If that is not the definition of a manager scared and unsure of himself I don't know

[sportsczy]

He loved playing him because CR was a beast and Benz/Morata as a duo were reasonably effective.  He didn't necessarily need goals from that position.... now he does.

[futbol_bill]

Benz/Morata
as a duo were reasonably effective.

LOL in what world is that statement true!!

You constantly criticized Morata and one play in entire year for Benz doesn’t make for an effective season!

[sportsczy]

Morata did great inn games where we needed points but weren't exactly glamourous.  Benz did relatively well in the big games.  Last years, from the CF position, we got:

26 goals and 9 assists in La Liga
8 goals and 1 assist in CL
5 goals and 2 assists in cups
Total = 39 goals and 12 assists

This year, halfway through, the CF position has given us:

3 goals and 3 assists in La Liga
3 goals and 2 assist in CL
3 goals and 0 assists in cups
Total = 9 goals and 5 assists

That's a MASSIVE dropoff.  

For all his meh play, Benz did end up with 19 goals and 7 assists last season...  Morata had 20 goals and 5 assists

Now we have Benz at 5 goals and 4 assists... Mayoral at 4 goals and 1 assists.

The math is pretty clear right there.

Add to it...  CR has killed CL and cups this season and been completely inept in La Liga... that's why we're struggling in league.

No need to look further.

Funny thing is that, if you guaranteed me that Benz would get to 19 goals this season... i'd be jumping for joy lol. No way Mayoral gets near Morata in terms of backing up though.

[The Demon of Carthage]

Not only Zidane is in charge of transfers, he's also the one who picks the starting eleven.

He can bench whoever he wants and play whoever he wants.

He's also the reason why we didn't make any major signing in the last two transfer windows.

Maybe it's time to start calling a spade a spade and stop making excuses to justify Zidane's disappointing campaign and nepotism.

[Doc]

But then he benched our best player overall this season Isco in the biggest game this season to try some man marking BS against Messi.

I'm pretty certain Zidane saw Allegri do something similar with respect to benching Dybala in the Derby d'Italia and thought "hey, why not?!". Same way he saw the 3 defender fad in England and thought "hey, why not?!".

The only good thing about being 4th in La Liga with a top 2 team is that we are definitely making the Madrid section great again.

[sportsczy]

He benched Isco because he tried what worked against Barca in the supercup... namely having Kova man mark Messi.  

The difference was that Modric wasn't available in the first leg of the supercup so he could play Isco anyhow.  In the second leg, Kova man marked Messi well again...  This past game, Kova was unable to keep up in the 2nd half of the game.

I'll mention that Isco never played in that second leg of the supercup... mainly because Asensio was insane and we were protecting a lead so Vasquez got the nod as the sub.

He let the two supercup performances dictate his choice.  The mistake was to keep hoping that that CR/Benz duo would wake up.  We're hopeless up front.

[sportsczy]

DoC... the fact that the least played players BY FAR are the summer transfers is basically what...  coincidence????  He loved them so much that he bought them so that he would never play them.  Nevermind that ZZ LOVES using his whole squad yet he won't use the players that YOU SAY he wanted over the summer transfer window.

Jeez dude. You remind me of Donald Trump voters.

[The Demon of Carthage]

What players are you exactly talking about? Did he bring Neymar and Messi? He bought Ceballos, Llorente, Theo, Mayoral and Vallejo and you can't possibly expect those guys to start over Modric, Case, Marcelo and Varane.

All the summer signings aren't good enough yet to displace the starters, so them not playing as much doesn't mean anything.

Fact of the matter is, he had all the time in the world to strengthen the squad but he didn't. Instead he keeps on shoving Benzema down our throats even though the latter is nothing short of disastrous.

Now for the love of god, have some dignity and stop making up ridiculous excuses to justify his incompetence because it's getting really sad at this point.

He sucks, end of.

[sportsczy]

Again, ignore the fact that he played his entire squad regularly last season... including completely unknown guys like Vasquez and Asensio...  yet won't rotate any of the new 5 players he allegedly bought AT ALL this season.

I do think that Vallejo has potential...  just Zidane obviously doesn't know him much and needs convincing.  He obviously has no confidence or belief (at this point) in the other guys.

You can't say that a manager controls transfers... when he doesn't freakin play his transfers lol.  Most times, they don't even make the team sheet!!!!!

Reminds me of the poor kid Canales and Pedro Leon when we bought them and Mourinho wanted nothing to do with them lol. We tend to try these stunts with Spanish players and it rarely ever works unless the manager buys in. Illaramendi was another one.

[Mr Nick09]

He benched Isco because he tried what worked against Barca in the supercup... namely having Kova man mark Messi.  

The difference was that Modric wasn't available in the first leg of the supercup so he could play Isco anyhow.  In the second leg, Kova man marked Messi well again...  This past game, Kova was unable to keep up in the 2nd half of the game.

I'll mention that Isco never played in that second leg of the supercup... mainly because Asensio was insane and we were protecting a lead so Vasquez got the nod as the sub.

He let the two supercup performances dictate his choice.  The mistake was to keep hoping that that CR/Benz duo would wake up.  We're hopeless up front.

this why he is a scrub as a coach.

Does not take a genius to see that Barca from this summer and now are not even close to being the same team, not only in terms of form, but tactically as well with Paulinho is their line up.

they went from playing 433/352 to some assymetric 442 with Paulinho making runs inside from the right.

i think he saw it, i think he did not know what to do, so he used some scared tactic to protect himself.

Valderve destroyed him after 45 minutes, goodness gracious.

If he had let the two supercup dictate his choices, he would have picked between Isco or Asensio, and Kovacic over someone in midfield. he would have stuck to the same formation. He invented something vs Barca, recipe for disaster.

nice job trying to justify it though, as if you attend the coaching meeting lol

[sportsczy]

That had nothing to do with the team...  it was a 1v1 matchup.  They did it to Zidane himself all the time when he played:  Namely put a man marker on him and dare the rest of his Juve and Madrid sides to come up with the goods.  Barca couldn't come up with the goods in the supercup... but did in this last clasico.

We had the upper hand in the first half too but couldn't score on our chances (per usual).  Once Barca scored and we had to open up more, our defense was more exposed and we got a red card early.

These types of games can get away from you quickly if the players make individual mistakes.  Ramos should have gotten a red...  Carvajal did.  We had 4 clear chances in the first half, 1 of which at least should gone in.

We lack killers on the attack.  They have Messi in great form.  That's the difference and nothing more. Not some hipster romanticized version of tactics....

[The Demon of Carthage]

From his press conference today:

In the last two winter transfer windows we haven't brought in anyone. There'll come a time when we can discuss it properly but right now I don't see any reason to bring anyone in.

I love this manager

[guest7]

You gotta appreciate managers like Simeone... Trouble scoring? Just use the wintermarket to buy a new CF

[futbol_bill]

He bought Costa in SUMMER market!!!!

[Cyborg]

Zidane is a stubborn arrogant coward.

He doesnt want to change anything because if he does and it works, everyone will say I told you so. It seems he is putting his pride before the team

He has defended Benzema so much, he cant ever drop him, even if he wanted to.

He is a coward for not using the younger players more. Ceballos, Llorente and Theo should be given more starts.

They are wasted on the bench.

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