Re: Immigration Thread- What's your ideal society ?

[Freeza]

Please update your formating. I don't want people thinking I wrote your words.

[Guest]

mate we are going round and round here. If he would like Britain to have nothing to do with his country and hated Britain then he has every right to do so. I've never been to India. I don't know what's going on there. That's why I would never tell him how he should feel. How can you not see what I'm saying.

You don't have to tell him how to feel because the globalization has already been forced on him. Whether or not he wanted Britain, or its effects on his society, around he has no say in the matter at this point because there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Is my point.

My point back to you is why should he have to experience this, but in your opinion, not you when your country did it and you receive more benefit from it TODAY? That is the main question.

[Unique]

mate we are going round and round here. If he would like Britain to have nothing to do with his country and hated Britain then he has every right to do so. I've never been to India. I don't know what's going on there. That's why I would never tell him how he should feel. How can you not see what I'm saying.

You don't have to tell him how to feel because the globalization has already been forced on him. Whether or not he wanted Britain, or its effects on his society, around he has no say in the matter at this point because there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Is my point.

My point back to you is why should he have to experience this, but in your opinion, not you when your country did it and you receive more benefit from it TODAY? That is the main question.

he shouldn't have to experience anything like that. He hates the shit in his country the same way I hate the shit in mine. He is free to hate any shit in his country the same way I'm free to hate the shit in mine.

[Unique]

Please update your formating. I don't want people thinking I wrote your words.

so basically you are talking shit again. You know nothing about my grievances because you live in another country and know nothing about my life and where I live.

[Guest]

mate we are going round and round here. If he would like Britain to have nothing to do with his country and hated Britain then he has every right to do so. I've never been to India. I don't know what's going on there. That's why I would never tell him how he should feel. How can you not see what I'm saying.

You don't have to tell him how to feel because the globalization has already been forced on him. Whether or not he wanted Britain, or its effects on his society, around he has no say in the matter at this point because there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Is my point.

My point back to you is why should he have to experience this, but in your opinion, not you when your country did it and you receive more benefit from it TODAY? That is the main question.

he shouldn't have to experience anything like that. He hates the shit in his country the same way I hate the shit in mine. He is free to hate any shit in his country the same way I'm free to hate the shit in mine.

Strong statement, but he does.

I can say Humans shouldn't grow old and die, but they do. Should he alone have to face such consequences of Imperialism? Or should you also face it since its a given he will experience it, and you benefit from it?

[Unique]

You don't have to tell him how to feel because the globalization has already been forced on him. Whether or not he wanted Britain, or its effects on his society, around he has no say in the matter at this point because there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Is my point.

My point back to you is why should he have to experience this, but in your opinion, not you when your country did it and you receive more benefit from it TODAY? That is the main question.

he shouldn't have to experience anything like that. He hates the shit in his country the same way I hate the shit in mine. He is free to hate any shit in his country the same way I'm free to hate the shit in mine.

Strong statement, but he does.

I can say Humans shouldn't grow old and die, but they do. Should he alone have to face such consequences of Imperialism? Or should you also face it since its a given he will experience it, and you benefit from it?

so what your saying is people should just except anything because other people suffer the same shit. A woman gets raped in Germany and should just deal with it because a woman also got raped by a German in ww2 in Poland. And the woman that got raped by a German in ww2 should just deal with it because a polish man raped a French woman before ww2. We could go on and on mate.

[Guest]

he shouldn't have to experience anything like that. He hates the shit in his country the same way I hate the shit in mine. He is free to hate any shit in his country the same way I'm free to hate the shit in mine.

Strong statement, but he does.

I can say Humans shouldn't grow old and die, but they do. Should he alone have to face such consequences of Imperialism? Or should you also face it since its a given he will experience it, and you benefit from it?

so what your saying is people should just except anything because other people suffer the same shit. A woman gets raped in Germany and should just deal with it because a woman also got raped by a German in ww2 in Poland. And the woman that got raped by a German in ww2 should just deal with it because a polish man raped a French woman before ww2. We could go on and on mate.

I am saying that the bad things that come with globalization is felt by us all. You don't stop the global exchange once a few bad things happen to you. We're all in this together.

[rincon]

And tbh mate let's not forget how people like you ended up in America. How did mass imagration work out for the Native Americans. I would ask one of them but they are all dead.

Nothing like the Brit saying this to the American

[rincon]

I think you and me so far, have discussed with respect. I respect your opinion and given the likes you receive, many agree with you, however this does not convince me in the slightest. Seriously i don't know a lot of peaceful places in this world where they have a huge cultural melting-pot.

The entire american continent is a collection of many examples.

[Unique]

Strong statement, but he does.

I can say Humans shouldn't grow old and die, but they do. Should he alone have to face such consequences of Imperialism? Or should you also face it since its a given he will experience it, and you benefit from it?

so what your saying is people should just except anything because other people suffer the same shit. A woman gets raped in Germany and should just deal with it because a woman also got raped by a German in ww2 in Poland. And the woman that got raped by a German in ww2 should just deal with it because a polish man raped a French woman before ww2. We could go on and on mate.

I am saying that the bad things that come with globalization is felt by us all. You don't stop the global exchange once a few bad things happen to you. We're all in this together.

but that don't mean any of us have to like it. And let's be honest here you said there is racism to you in the USA because you are Japanese. Does that mean you have to suffer that shit because of the things the Japanese did to the Chinese in ww2.

[Unique]

And tbh mate let's not forget how people like you ended up in America. How did mass imagration work out for the Native Americans. I would ask one of them but they are all dead.

Nothing like the Brit saying this to the American

but the difference is I have no problem with anyone that has a grievance.

[rincon]

And tbh mate let's not forget how people like you ended up in America. How did mass imagration work out for the Native Americans. I would ask one of them but they are all dead.

Nothing like the Brit saying this to the American

but the difference is I have no problem with anyone that has a grievance.

Doesn't change the facts now does it?

I'm wondering what you meant from that comment. How did "people like him" end up in America? and how does it relate to the native Americans? when you know that "people like you" were the ones that colonized and slaughtered, and not the Japanese right?

[Unique]

Nothing like the Brit saying this to the American

but the difference is I have no problem with anyone that has a grievance.

Doesn't change the facts now does it?

I'm wondering what you meant from that comment. How did "people like him" end up in America? and how does it relate to the native Americans? when you know that "people like you" were the ones that colonized and slaughtered, and not the Japanese right?

the Japanese didn't slaughter you say. Did you not see what they did in the rape of Nanking. My point when I said people like him was anyone in America today. What happened to the Native Americans. The imagrants came in and killed them and took the country. My point is should we all except rape murder and terrorism because people from our country did bad things years ago. If that's the case then we have to over look everything because others have done the same shit in the past. So if you are a German you have to except rape murder and genocide because other Germans did it.

[rincon]

Yes, the Japanese and the thousands of raped native Americans in Nanking

Its not that you should be fine with genocide because of your people doing in the past. Its that you should study your history and be aware of the past as to learn from it. You should know enough of your own country's deeds to know that the Japanese had little to do with native Americans. Otherwise it all comes out as ignorant nonsense.

The fact that the British committed genocide in America doesn't mean that every subsequent immigrant population did. It also certainly doesn't mean that all immigration there has been negative. Specially when this example is so positive for both parties involved.

So to remember how "people like him" ended up in America, it was the non genocide kind of way.

[Unique]

Yes, the Japanese and the thousands of raped native Americans in Nanking

Its not that you should be fine with genocide because of your people doing in the past. Its that you should study your history and be aware of the past as to learn from it. You should know enough of your own country's deeds to know that the Japanese had little to do with native Americans. Otherwise it all comes out as ignorant nonsense.

The fact that the British committed genocide in America doesn't mean that every subsequent immigrant population did. It also certainly doesn't mean that all immigration there has been negative. Specially when this example is so positive for both parties involved.

So how did "people like him" end up in America? the non genocide kind of way.

man wtf. I never said both were linked did I. I said people like him and everyone else ended up in America because the natives were killed. and I also pointed out the rape of nanking. there is a saying that goes. if you don't have some kind of shame about your countrys history then you don't know your countrys history. but are you saying the people of today have to except what ever comes to them because people from our past did bad things. if you think like that then we all deserve what ever bad things come to us.

[rincon]

Yes, the Japanese and the thousands of raped native Americans in Nanking

Its not that you should be fine with genocide because of your people doing in the past. Its that you should study your history and be aware of the past as to learn from it. You should know enough of your own country's deeds to know that the Japanese had little to do with native Americans. Otherwise it all comes out as ignorant nonsense.

The fact that the British committed genocide in America doesn't mean that every subsequent immigrant population did. It also certainly doesn't mean that all immigration there has been negative. Specially when this example is so positive for both parties involved.

So how did "people like him" end up in America? the non genocide kind of way.

man wtf. I never said both were linked did I. I said people like him and everyone else ended up in America because the natives were killed. and I also pointed out the rape of nanking. there is a saying that goes. if you don't have some kind of shame about your countrys history then you don't know your countrys history. but are you saying the people of today have to except what ever comes to them because people from our past did bad things. if you think like that then we all deserve what ever bad things come to us.

Never said anything of the sort of whats bolded there. Thats something I haven't gotten into. Thats an argument you were having with someone else.

No, not everyone that came to America came because the natives were killed. That's not how that works at all. Your statement about his people coming to america because the natives were killed is absurd and has 0 significance.

You are generalizing and projecting. Immigration comes in all shapes and sizes, it has happened in all periods of history and to all kinds of degrees.

[Unique]

Yes, the Japanese and the thousands of raped native Americans in Nanking

Its not that you should be fine with genocide because of your people doing in the past. Its that you should study your history and be aware of the past as to learn from it. You should know enough of your own country's deeds to know that the Japanese had little to do with native Americans. Otherwise it all comes out as ignorant nonsense.

The fact that the British committed genocide in America doesn't mean that every subsequent immigrant population did. It also certainly doesn't mean that all immigration there has been negative. Specially when this example is so positive for both parties involved.

So how did "people like him" end up in America? the non genocide kind of way.

man wtf. I never said both were linked did I. I said people like him and everyone else ended up in America because the natives were killed. and I also pointed out the rape of nanking. there is a saying that goes. if you don't have some kind of shame about your countrys history then you don't know your countrys history. but are you saying the people of today have to except what ever comes to them because people from our past did bad things. if you think like that then we all deserve what ever bad things come to us.

I literally said the opposite, as it is quoted. And no, not everyone that came to America came because the natives were killed. That's not how that works at all. Your statement about his people coming to america because the natives were killed is absurd and has 0 significance.

You are generalizing and projecting. Immigration comes in all shapes and sizes, it has happened in all periods of history and to all kinds of degrees.

I didn't say his people. I said all people. are you saying that the natives in America didn't get killed so the people of today could own that country. anyway mate this debate is going way off topic. we all know every country in the world has done some very bad things.

[Guest]

so what your saying is people should just except anything because other people suffer the same shit. A woman gets raped in Germany and should just deal with it because a woman also got raped by a German in ww2 in Poland. And the woman that got raped by a German in ww2 should just deal with it because a polish man raped a French woman before ww2. We could go on and on mate.

I am saying that the bad things that come with globalization is felt by us all. You don't stop the global exchange once a few bad things happen to you. We're all in this together.

but that don't mean any of us have to like it. And let's be honest here you said there is racism to you in the USA because you are Japanese. Does that mean you have to suffer that shit because of the things the Japanese did to the Chinese in ww2.

Whether or not IF I have to suffer from it I do. I am treated a certain way by many different groups because of my Yamato Heritage and I completely understand why. I apologize and try to understand their feelings.

[Unique]

I am saying that the bad things that come with globalization is felt by us all. You don't stop the global exchange once a few bad things happen to you. We're all in this together.

but that don't mean any of us have to like it. And let's be honest here you said there is racism to you in the USA because you are Japanese. Does that mean you have to suffer that shit because of the things the Japanese did to the Chinese in ww2.

Whether or not IF I have to suffer from it I do. I am treated a certain way by many different groups because of my Yamato Heritage and I completely understand why. I apologize and try to understand their feelings.

no you don't mate. I have seen you lots of times talk about racism you have had to deal with. don't give it all that shit now. anyway this has gone way off topic. my point is i am happy to have imagrants in my country from all race and colour and most religions. i do think we should limit the numbers because we are a small island. but if i could get islam out of Europe tomorrow then i would do that without hesitation. imo islam is now the cancer of the world. and yes i know its not all 1.5 billion of muslims that are the problem but its enough of them to make a difference. islam does not make Britain a better place. but it does make Britain and Europe a worst place. if people cant see what worries me then what are you looking at. islam and religion is the same as anything. does the good out weigh the bad. i don't think it does but I'm open to anyone that can tell me that islam in Europe does more good than bad. so if anyone can prove me wrong i am happy to listen to their point.

[Guest]

no you don't mate. I have seen you lots of times talk about racism you have had to deal with. don't give it all that shit now. anyway this has gone way off topic. my point is i am happy to have imagrants in my country from all race and colour and most religions. i do think we should limit the numbers because we are a small island. but if i could get islam out of Europe tomorrow then i would do that without hesitation. imo islam is now the cancer of the world. and yes i know its not all 1.5 billion of muslims that are the problem but its enough of them to make a difference. islam does not make Britain a better place. but it does make Britain and Europe a worst place. if people cant see what worries me then what are you looking at. islam and religion is the same as anything. does the good out weigh the bad. i don't think it does but I'm open to anyone that can tell me that islam in Europe does more good than bad. so if anyone can prove me wrong i am happy to listen to their point.

I've spoke about it and I understood it. I apologize to Chinese and Koreans and others who have been wronged by Japanese Imperialism. I have complained on here about random racism I have experienced from people whose never had any type of run ins with such systems. Which are encounters I do have issues with.

But I digress. You clearly don't want Muslims in your nation, and in the end you hold a right to that opinion. Buddha knows we all could have unpopular opinions in our heads.

[Unique]

no you don't mate. I have seen you lots of times talk about racism you have had to deal with. don't give it all that shit now. anyway this has gone way off topic. my point is i am happy to have imagrants in my country from all race and colour and most religions. i do think we should limit the numbers because we are a small island. but if i could get islam out of Europe tomorrow then i would do that without hesitation. imo islam is now the cancer of the world. and yes i know its not all 1.5 billion of muslims that are the problem but its enough of them to make a difference. islam does not make Britain a better place. but it does make Britain and Europe a worst place. if people cant see what worries me then what are you looking at. islam and religion is the same as anything. does the good out weigh the bad. i don't think it does but I'm open to anyone that can tell me that islam in Europe does more good than bad. so if anyone can prove me wrong i am happy to listen to their point.

I've spoke about it and I understood it. I apologize to Chinese and Koreans and others who have been wronged by Japanese Imperialism. I have complained on here about random racism I have experienced from people whose never had any type of run ins with such systems. Which are encounters I do have issues with.

But I digress. You clearly don't want Muslims in your nation, and in the end you hold a right to that opinion. Buddha knows we all could have unpopular opinions in our heads.

i do want islam out of Britain and Europe but not because i am racist. race has nothing to do with islam. islam is not a race. islam is a ideology and not a race. if people on this forum think i just picked a religion out of a hat and hated them then they are crazy.

[McLewis]

I feel like there's a lot of muddying of the state of immigration (legal and illegal depending on the country) in certain countries with the current refugee crisis sweeping through Europe.

2 completely different subjects. I do not see them as the same topic for discussion. This thread is for immigration so i think we need to keep it at that.

Here in the US, it's a fact that the large majority of legal immigrants have killed no one, raped no one, robbed no one and took no one's job. Hell, the same honestly can be said of the illegal immigrants here as well.

As an American....my fellow natural-born Americans worry me a lot more than immigrants and refugees. They are responsible for a significant higher amount of heinous crimes.

[McLewis]

no you don't mate. I have seen you lots of times talk about racism you have had to deal with. don't give it all that shit now. anyway this has gone way off topic. my point is i am happy to have imagrants in my country from all race and colour and most religions. i do think we should limit the numbers because we are a small island. but if i could get islam out of Europe tomorrow then i would do that without hesitation. imo islam is now the cancer of the world. and yes i know its not all 1.5 billion of muslims that are the problem but its enough of them to make a difference. islam does not make Britain a better place. but it does make Britain and Europe a worst place. if people cant see what worries me then what are you looking at. islam and religion is the same as anything. does the good out weigh the bad. i don't think it does but I'm open to anyone that can tell me that islam in Europe does more good than bad. so if anyone can prove me wrong i am happy to listen to their point.

I've spoke about it and I understood it. I apologize to Chinese and Koreans and others who have been wronged by Japanese Imperialism. I have complained on here about random racism I have experienced from people whose never had any type of run ins with such systems. Which are encounters I do have issues with.

But I digress. You clearly don't want Muslims in your nation, and in the end you hold a right to that opinion. Buddha knows we all could have unpopular opinions in our heads.

i do want islam out of Britain and Europe but not because i am racist. race has nothing to do with islam. islam is not a race. islam is a ideology and not a race. if people on this forum think i just picked a religion out of a hat and hated them then they are crazy.

Does this include natural-born British Muslims or just immigrants and refugees?

Also, how would you accomplish what you're talking about logistically?

[M99]

Since Unique wants all Muslims out of Britain, who does he think should replace Sadiq Khan as mayor of London?

And Mane in Liverpool?

[urbaNRoots]

My parents and my older siblings were muslim immigrants in Germany. They didn't know the German language (or English) and were not skilled workers either. But they were good people who were fleeing war and hoped for a better life somewhere else. If Germany sent them back without giving them a chance, they (plus me and my siblings) would have a shitty life in Kosovo which neither Germany nor Kosovo would benefit from.

Instead, Germany kept them in, gave them a chance and welcomed them. My sister now teaches German language in Wien, me and my brother work as IT on two seperate companies. My older brother pretty much keeps his company alive by himself while I'm still a young employer. We pay our taxes and we proudly recited our oaths of citizenship. Kosovo also greatly benefits from the diaspora by getting a huge influx of money when Kosovars return to Kosovo for visits.

Because of how Germany helped me and my family (and hundreds and thousands of Kosovars in Germany and Switzerland), I'm proud to be a german citizen and it warms my heart when I see Germans in the streets supporting refugees who are fleeing war. Now I'm not saying that we should tolerate ALL the refugees, absolutely send back or arrest the thieves and rapists and criminals, and the same is valid for everyone not just refugees.

To answer Sepi's question, I believe everyone should at least be given a chance to prove themselves in a new country if they decide to move. Stronger border controls but not closed altogether.

[BarrileteCosmico]

In my ideal society, for every country in the world...I believe the society WILL function better being 85-90% homogenous + 10-15% immigration....and maintaining that ratio should be the prime concern of the gov't.

Toronto is 50% immigrant (source). Clearly it must bee a horrid place to live in, so many of them. What do you suggest we should do about the immigrant problem? Should Toronto close itself off to all new immigrants until it reaches the desired 10-15% goal? That could take years though, if not decades. Perhaps we should have forced re-allocation and spread them all around Canada rather than where they currently live? But wait, Canada as a whole is currently 20.6% immigrant! Alright, I think I have two solutions: either mass deportations or extermination facilities.

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