Re: The Official Real Madrid 23 - 24 Matchday Thread

[The Madrid One]

Like a Hieronymus Bosch or Francisco de Goya painting, Yesterday's tifo of La Reina Cibeles was a gargantuan, monstrous, astonishing glimpse into unspeakable realms with no top and no bottom.

Unblinking, inevitable, and interminable.

She swallowed La Bestia Negra whole.

There are levels to this.

Hasta el final, vamos Real.

[The Madrid One]

Regarding our squad, recently i've seen the discussion pop up about whether our upcoming squad may be the best we've ever had. Off the top of my head the two squads that immediately come to mind as being very noteworthy are 11/12 and 16/17, but personally our squad that has impressed me the most in terms of the potential of it may be the squad we had during the pre season of 14/15.

Casillas (in decline)/Navas

Carvajal/Arbeloa

Pepe/Varane

Ramos/Nacho

Marcelo/Coentrao (who was coming from a sublime and nigh imperious series of late 13/14 performances, prime Coentrao might be my favorite Madrid LB I've seen   )

Alonso + Kroos + Modric with Khedira & Illarramendi as subs

James + Isco + Di Maria (who was coming from the season of his life with a role somewhat similar to that of Valverde's)

Bale + Benzema + Ronaldo

The only thing missing from that squad imo was a good sub option for Benzema and maybe another forward option akin to a Brahim or Rodrygo profile. And the ages of most players were either in their prime or going into it.

With the current squad there are some things which remain to be seen:

1. What will Courtois look like in the mid to long term and will Lunin keep improving? If they both follow a nice track then our GK options will be great.

2. Carvajal is having the season of his life in terms of health and performance, but he's 32. How much longer can he continue and what will our RB area look like in the next couple of years with Carvajal and Lucas inevitably leaving/hitting definitive decline? We'll likely need at least two great/very good RB acquisitions in the next couple of years imo. No Valverde or Militao at RB half-assed shenanigans.

3. Remains to be seen how Militao and Alaba heal and how long Rudiger and Alaba last. Will we get Yoro and is he good enough to be considered as another potential Varane/Militao for us? Contract wise it looks like it's either this summer or else we'll miss out on Yoro as Lille can't let him go for free at the end of next season. Rafa Marin would probably be overkill and not be considered if we bring Yoro and assume Militao and Alaba will be at a functional strength with Tchouameni also being a capable option.

4. I think Mendy has to stay. Fran and Miguel Gutierrez could be sold to help with the funds for Davies. What does our economic situation for this summer look like? Could we afford bringing both of Yoro and Davies at the same time?

5. This season we have seen the birth of a synthesis : "Kroosmodric", Kroos playing around 60 minutes and Modric being able to play the rest of mins in a big game. It'd be great to see them lift their sixth Champions League in a few days and see if they can go for their seventh in what would definitely be their last year next year. How will we replace these players?

Some people have posited that maybe we can play in a different way without a deep lying midfield orchestrator or that Camavinga, Tchouameni, Valverde, or Bellingham might be able to fit the bill in their own way, but I think there's still that one elite piece missing, and I think it definitely wouldn't be overbooking to get someone at the end of next season. Squawka made a good video where they analyzed who've available that is most similar to a Kroos profile.



Considerations like reconversions of Trent Alexander Arnold or Florian Wirtz have popped up in discussions online, and there are other players like Joshua Kimmich and Enzo Fernandez also mentioned. I have to see more of Wirtz but at 5 feet 10 and with his body elasticity and way of handling the body, he very much looks like he could maybe emulate Kroos in some ways. What I need to see more of is his passing, vision, and tempo control, and from what I've seen he doesn't and hasn't ever played with a deep lying CM orchestrator role at Leverkusen ever at all. In fact, based on footage I've seen of Wirtz I'm not the biggest fan. Player profile wise he looks a lot like an improved version of Ceballos. Has pretty turning ability and press resistance, and very good ball control, but on most of the clips I see he's playing in advanced playmaker roles and relies more on ball carrying and dribbling rather than expressive at-will elite passing to move the ball forward.

6. I suppose that with Valverde, Rodrygo, Brahim, Guler, and possibly Endrick (unsure how good he could be at RW/RF) we have enough options at the right side of the attack, even if we don't have a dedicated goal + assist machine forward down that flank.

So questions at GK, RB, CB, and LB left open, with the midfield and forward line looking very good, but with the assumed departure of Ceballos at the end of this season, "Kroosmodric", at the end of next season, and with the prospect of Guler being a CM some day likely being pure dumbassery, I would def say we could fit one more youthful elite signing for a deep lying CM orchestrator profile.

For comparison's sake, this squad reminds me of the young 10/11 one for example in that you could feel that it's looking to be dynasty-potential promising in the long run.

One thing I can say about this squad is that, for my taste, with it's youthful, physically exuberant yet technically refined, and psychologically and emotionally healthy and vibrant profile, this is shaping up to be my favorite squad I've seen, and one that could rival the achievements of the legends of the last decade, legends which must be said are, as a generational bulk, the greatest this club has ever had.

So far.

[halamadrid2]

A nice exhibition against a team that has been a pain in the neck for the last few seasons

Bellingham just a goal below Dovbyk in the race for the pichichi

[titosantill]

Replacement for Toni Kroos? i could have sworn we have like 46 midfielders on our roster

[futbol_bill]

These comments about a Kroos replacement or a Modric replacement or a Casemiro replacement is nonsense. You don’t replace a legend with a look alike. We need our next generation midfield to be effective for who they are, not trying to replace the exiting legends with like facsimiles. Besides, we already have at least 4 proven starting midfielders plus we either have or are possibly trying to sign several other contenders!

[titosantill]

These comments about a Kroos replacement or a Modric replacement or a Casemiro replacement is nonsense. You don’t replace a legend with a look alike. We need our next generation midfield to be effective for who they are, not trying to replace the exiting legends with like facsimiles. Besides, we already have at least 4 proven starting midfielders plus we either have or are possibly trying to sign several other contenders!

Agreed. You don't go out searching for a like for like. You might end up just hampering the new player. But i feel we already have a ton of midfielders on our roster

[futbol_bill]

These comments about a Kroos replacement or a Modric replacement or a Casemiro replacement is nonsense. You don’t replace a legend with a look alike. We need our next generation midfield to be effective for who they are, not trying to replace the exiting legends with like facsimiles. Besides, we already have at least 4 proven starting midfielders plus we either have or are possibly trying to sign several other contenders!

Agreed. You don't go out searching for a like for like. You might end up just hampering the new player. But i feel we already have a ton of midfielders on our roster

I agree completely Tito. Midfield is the last area that we need to sign or pursue anyone. Rather there are several to depart due to lack of minutes. This season alone there will likely be Modric and Ceballos, but that still leaves 6 for 3 positions. What we will likely need in a couple of years is backups that are content with that role.

[Valkyrja]

we’ll certainly need a controller in midfield after Modric & Kroos leave next year. Joao Neves from Benfica would be my pick. he looks so similar to Modric in the way that he is super technical but at the same time very aggresive.

[futbol_bill]

Well, well, surprises re the midfield! Both Modric and Kroos are renewing for another year! Plus Ceballos says all the talk of him leaving, even having an agreement with Atletico is not true. There have been no conversation with the,. He would like to play more and feel important to the club and he feels he can fill a void when Kroos eventually leaves (mind you he said this before the announcement last night re Modric and Kross).

So it looks like no changes in midfield at all. They did say Güler is staying, however it looks like as a forward not a midfielder.

What this means is a very crowded midfield and forwards.

Other news, actually rumors are not paying Bayern for Davies and even in a year on a free transfer they may not take him. Seems they are impressed with Mendy as of late as well as Gutierrez at Girona. Buying him back is cheaper than paying Bayern, and will likely result in a Fran Garcia sale.

Also they are going to delay any Yoro movement, going to give Rafa Marin a shot at Nacho’s role as he also has has impressed at Alaves.

And Lucas is being renewed for another year meaning no changes at RB.

While these moves avoid an overcrowding situation in defense, I’m a bit worried we may miss out on both Davies and Yoro!

[futbol_bill]

It’s going to be same team that won liga and CL, plus Mbappe, Endick, recovered Courtois, Militao, Alaba and Gutierrez and Marin returning replacing Fran and Nacho.

2 porteros, 8 defense, 7 midfielders, 7 forwards (only 5 Spaniards - maybe that’s why Marin and Gutierrez vs Yoro and Davies)

[halamadrid2]

NEW: Florentino Perez took matters into his own hands regarding the renewals of Toni Kroos and Luka Modrić.

Modric has given his YES, Kroos is about to. @jfelixdiaz pic.twitter.com/Wa9RTdXHJ7

— Madrid Zone (@theMadridZone) May 18, 2024

I am glad they are staying around for one more season especially now with Mbappe coming. Need as many senior players as possible

[The Madrid One]

Unless they're good enough to warrant not being sold to make way for more elite prospects or there's a Cantera quota that would be unmet in our squad if we sell them, all of Rafa Marin, Miguel Gutierrez, and Fran Garcia could be sold to help make way for Leny Yoro and Alphonso Davies. Jose Felix Diaz of Marca and Guillermo Rai of The Athletic have both said in the last couple of days that those two are still very much open cases that may not be resolved too early in the transfer window. Both their contracts expire in 2025 so there's plenty of negotiating to go on, don't think their current clubs have the advantage no matter how hard they play if their players get stubborn about coming here. Wouldn't be surprised if Yoro's price is somehow lowered if he stays one more year in Lille and we bring Rafa Marin to complement Rudiger, Militao, Alaba, and Tchouameni in the meanwhile at CB and if Davies is the only one to come now at the expense of Gutierrez and Fran.

Other factors are just how economically flexible we are this summer and if Yoro is really good enough to be another Varane/Militao sort of signing for us then...

We shall see.

[halamadrid2]

I think LB is the only question mark. Carlo wants Mendy to stay, the club wants Davies but don't want both Mendy and Davies on the books so they'll have to make a choice during the summer. Davies has come in for alot of criticism these past couple of seasons so his signing comes with a giant asterix.

At CB, Yoro seems to be who we have identified as the next signing. Whether it happens this summer or next makes no difference to us as we have both Rudiger and Militao as starters with Alaba and Marin as back ups.

According to reports we seem to be happy with Lucas as Dani's backup so we'll not make any signings there.

The midfield depends alot on what Ceballos wants to do. He hasn't been playing much which understandably he isn't happy about, but I would only release him if we get a substantial amount for him. With both Kroos and Modric that means we have Cama, Tchou, Valverde, Arda, Kroos, Modric for those spots if we go with a 4312 line up like we have this season.

[Turok_TTZ]

Awfully generous thinking with regards to militao Hala.
I dont think even nacho had a bad day as today his whole madrid career as militao did.

I know he only came back from injury recently but... Wtf has happened to militao? Forget regression, guy has slid off badly.

[futbol_bill]

Turok, you don’t understand what is needed to come back from an ACL injury. It is the toughest injury to come back from and some never do!

[futbol_bill]

The more I see Güler, the more impressed I am. He not only needs to stay, he will be demanding more and more playing time.

[halamadrid2]

Awfully generous thinking with regards to militao Hala.
I dont think even nacho had a bad day as today his whole madrid career as militao did.

I know he only came back from injury recently but... Wtf has happened to militao? Forget regression, guy has slid off badly.

Plenty of our defenders have had similar games. I can name at least one for all of them. Even Militao has had a worse game. He's just come back from a season long injury playing with the b team against a team that is fighting for ECL

[halamadrid2]

The more I see Güler, the more impressed I am. He not only needs to stay, he will be demanding more and more playing time.

To think he played with Brahim and Rodrygo yet he was behind everything we did. He could be a starter right now definitely.

[futbol_bill]

Some thoughts about CL final and next season!

About Militao, Carlo may have to play him in CL final as he is only option after Rudiger and Nacho. If either one gets injured, Militao may get called! Other than that the only options are Carvajal or Mendy! Let’s just hope Rudiger and Nacho are able to play the full game.

And I want to see Güler the first sub in that game. Kid deserves a shot in a big game.

I’m trying to see a scenario, for next year with a double AM formation of both Bellingham and Güler. But I can’t see a feasible way that could happen. I think Güler will only get to play as a backup to either Rodrygo or Bellingham. The other possible issue will be Endick. I don’t think he will jump right into a starting role, rather like Vinicius and Rodrygo in first year, he will be likely only get occasional minutes, at least initially. That’s whyJoselu likely will stay next season. The players that will see their minutes declined with the development of both Güler and Endick are Joselu, Brahim and Rodrygo. At least that is my prediction. It really says something about depth of this team, when we can say three extremely valuable players will see their playing time reduced. It’s the same thing with midfield!

[Turok_TTZ]

Some thoughts about CL final and next season!

About Militao, Carlo may have to play him in CL final as he is only option after Rudiger and Nacho. If either one gets injured, Militao may get called! Other than that the only options are Carvajal or Mendy! Let’s just hope Rudiger and Nacho are able to play the full game.

And I want to see Güler the first sub in that game. Kid deserves a shot in a big game.

I’m trying to see a scenario, for next year with a double AM formation of both Bellingham and Güler. But I can’t see a feasible way that could happen. I think Güler will only get to play as a backup to either Rodrygo or Bellingham. The other possible issue will be Endick. I don’t think he will jump right into a starting role, rather like Vinicius and Rodrygo in first year, he will be likely only get occasional minutes, at least initially. That’s whyJoselu likely will stay next season. The players that will see their minutes declined with the development of both Güler and Endick are Joselu, Brahim and Rodrygo. At least that is my prediction. It really says something about depth of this team, when we can say three extremely valuable players will see their playing time reduced. It’s the same thing with midfield!

Bellingham will play cm when mbappe arrives. I've read enough reports that he's coming so it is what it is. In any case That's what Bellingham did at Dortmund and i dont see a problem. He's a smart lad. He'll have no problems.

Guler definitely raises eyebrows for certain. He definitely has great potential. I understand why Carlo doesn't want to send him on loan from what I've heard. As an attacking threat he has a higher ceiling than even Bellingham. Whether he can unleash that potential will be a test for time to reveal.

I have great hope for endrick but with guler and bra him in the mix.... Hm. We're definitely well stocked on both midfield and attack. Ftr I see guler as a forward. If he was classified as a midfielder that's a mistake. He can be a great attacker and our midfield is stacked as is. Quite the depth with the headache that comes with it.

Just our backline that feels light.

[Myesyats]

NEW: Florentino Perez took matters into his own hands regarding the renewals of Toni Kroos and Luka Modrić.

Modric has given his YES, Kroos is about to. @jfelixdiaz pic.twitter.com/Wa9RTdXHJ7

— Madrid Zone (@theMadridZone) May 18, 2024

I am glad they are staying around for one more season especially now with Mbappe coming. Need as many senior players as possible

Kroos retires on a high. Modric should do the same tbh

[halamadrid2]

I am so sad about the Kroos news but tbh the writing was on the wall. We had to spend alot of time convincing him to continue this season. It was going to be even more difficult for next season.

We are losing alot of leaders. Both Nacho and Kroos are leaving/retiring. But thankfully Modric wants to stay for one more season.

Absolute legend of the game, leaving on a high hopefully wiyh a CL winners medal

[The Madrid One]

A few quick notes.

- I wish him the best and hope he serves me crows with several CLs as the platters but boy am I perpetually uninspired by AMs of Guler's mold. He will never be a "complete", versatile CM ala Modric, Kroos, or Bellingham, when you see players such as those you can be tempted into the fools errand to conjure up clueless player reconversion hypotheses about any random player but those players have an essence to their game, to their technical-physical repertoires that have allowed them/will allow them to play where they ultimately belong (more over reaching and expansive roles). Guler imo is destined to play in CAM/RAM zones in the final third of the pitch and destined to serve a 13th/14th man no man's land squad roles ala Ozil, Isco, James, Odegaard, Asensio, Brahim, all AMs with their own idiosyncrasies but ultimately AMs nonetheless. Of all those probably James may have been arguably the most equipped to be turned into a more dynamic CM with Brahim perhaps being the most impressive as a pseudo-forward.

Guler has a soft and tender golden boy hype machine going not disimilar to Asensio's, based more on 1. a prodigy aura that's in no small part born and contingent on said hype machine, 2. Goals, than on his game as shown so far.

By 19, Guler's current age,  Odegaard's hype machine was neutered in comparison to what we saw when we first heard of him in 2014, but based on what I've seen I think that his turning ability, press resistance, dribbling, vision, and passing were all well clear of Guler's, who has shown little imo game wise in his limited appearances in the RAM zones of the pitch he's played in so far in 4222, 4231, and 433 schemes.



Nonetheless I hope he proves useful for us and high level as whatever type of player he does end up being, which I think he's capable of.

2. With Kroos leaving, Modric leaving soon, Ceballos being irrelevant, Brahim being more a pseudo-forward, and Arda having no chance in hell imo to become a CM (because that's not his essence nor ideal as a player imo), it wouldn't hurt the club to at least consider bringing in an organizational deep-lying tempo controlling CM to complement Bellingham, Camavinga, Valverde, and Tchouameni, the latter who btw, I consider to have a very useful ceiling as a versatile CB/CDM option ala Javier Mascherano but not as an undisputed starter, shame about his price which I think removes somewhat out of focus the weight that we give Tchouameni.

As I understand, Trent Alexander Arnold and Joshua Kimmich could both potentially be used as organizational CM profiles and at RB as alternatives and their contracts end in 2025 and I'm sure the club is privy to options such as those outlined in the Squawka video I previously posted in this thread. Kroos and Modric are irreplaceable and it'd be stupid to go in with the mentality of finding clones, but it would also be stupid to not appreciate what they provide profile wise and at the very least consider if we could use another acquisition.

Bet we won't see any this summer though, and I'd understand. Midfield will be interesting come 24/25.

[Turok_TTZ]

Don't rate TAA. Prefer to turn off my AA settings. Tuchel didn't rate kimmich. There must be a good reason as to why that is.

Don't be so quick to dismiss Ceballos tmo. He is the closest to Kroos we got of the mids who remain. Obvious answer being Bellingham but by no means are we doing like for like replacement. No one can replace Toni Kroos. All we can do adjust tactics and roles accordingly. Just as Benzema stepped up when cr7 left. So must the midfield to do so to control games and moving that ball forward. I look forward to seeing who will step up to the plate.

[futbol_bill]

The net effect of Kroos leaving and Modric staying is Ceballos will stay. As Turok says he may not be a starter, but he is useful and he has Carlo’s confidence. That’s one thing that hasn’t been talked about much. Carlo’s confidence and use of the entire team! Actually the so called B team that has started 2 of last three games, everyone one of them would be a starter on most other teams.

All this talk about needing a Kroos replacement or a Modric replacement is wrong in my opinion. The Club has been building the replacement midfield for last 3 or 4 years. And they have grown enough to bench Modric except for cameo roles as was the case this year, plus Modric will be the captain this year continuing his leadership and mentoring. We have Tchouameni, Camavinga, Valverde, Bellingham and Güler competing for 3 starting spots, with Caballos and likely Nico Paz available when needed. We don’t need any additional midfielders IMO, at least for the next couple of years. Far better off to strengthen up the defensive positions.
IMO all 5 will play with rotations amongst them, plus both Bellingham and Güler are capable of playing a more forward which will depend on what formation Carlo is using (in that game).

You are probably surprised that I include Güler amongst the midfielders! That is mostly a result of the skills he demonstrated, particularly in last game. In the small amounts of minutes he has had this year, he has shown his scoring, positioning and timing abilities, but last game we saw that he has excellent vision of the game that only Bellingham (and Modric) within this squad have. He is not in the AM mode as Isco, James, etc that MTO keeps mentioning, nor is Bellingham. Yes they can play an AM role or even a forward role, but to me that vision capability sets them apart. I don’t realistically expect Güler to start next season as he is still developing as will Endick. However I expect both of them will eventually earn their way into a starter role. And that will be when we will need some new recruitment as some of current midfielders and forwards will leave due to playing insufficient minutes.

[Turok_TTZ]

Our season is now complete. The league title and the coveted 15th cl triumph. All thanks to the brilliant mind of Don Carlo.

The future? Onwards to the 16th. I'm happy for our men. They have proven themselves to be champions without doubt.

Hopefully we can defend that cl championship next year.

Edit: goodbye Toni. Thank you for your years of service to this great club of ours. May your days be blessed as today.

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