Sports keeps saying Mourinho is a shit coach and to that point I think we can all agree. But the disappointment of Pogba is where most of us disagree. For sure, some of it lies with Mourinho or rather the lack of results of team. But surely he must see that Pogba bears a lot of responsibility for his lack of professionalism and lacking basic skills (or at least not demonstrating them). Sports has been the initiator of this Pogba hype for at least 4 years now. He was overhyped both by his agent and Sports and moved for a price and salary that he could never live up to. You can count the very good performances in the past three years and you wouldn’t get to even 10!

@mole you are confused. You must be thinking about some other award that Scott Parker won. He certainly hasn't been PL player of the season, neither was Giggs with a dozen games played.

rincon wrote:

sportsczy wrote:I really don't think Modric, Lukaku, De Buryne, Salah, Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Martial, Willian, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Marcelo, Herrera, Bailly, Shaw, Ramos, Pepe, iker, Benzema, etc. intentionally played like shit.

This list of players might as well be your sig

Funny thing is that none of our players were shit under Mou, and IF, certainly not until 2013 at the earliest. Ramos became a world-class CB under him, Benzema had one of his best seasons to date under him, Iker made mistakes in 12-13 and waas punished as such, Marcelo became world-class under Mourinho and went a level up once Ancelotti took over.

I could pronounce myself on the other names too, but I don't have the expertise so I would like to see what Chelsea or United fans would have to say.

I don't remember that kid that Mou destroyed at Madrid to get at Iker... had no business starting but he threw him to the wolves to make a point. It wasn't Diego Lopez. The poor kid got booed relentlessly because Iker was such a Spanish hero and he obviously wasn't better. They were booing Mou really...

The kid was so mentally scared that he fled Spain that summer and basically disappeared for good a couple of years later. Madrid fans help me here lol.

Adan I think. Or Jesus Fernandez iirc.

rincon wrote:@mole you are confused. You must be thinking about some other award that Scott Parker won. He certainly hasn't been PL player of the season, neither was Giggs with a dozen games played.

Football Writers' Association Footballer of the Year. It's just as prestigious. PFA and FWA carry the same weight.

Scott Parker won a FWA crazily and Giggs won the PFA just as crazily. FWA is actually the older award.

Valkyrja wrote:Adan I think. Or Jesus Fernandez iirc.

Adan!  that's him.  He's still around lol.  But he left for Cagliari that summer to get away...

Mou said in 2012 "It's a technical decision. The coach analyses the situation, looks at the players at his disposal and chooses his team. At the moment, for me and my coaching staff, Adán is better than Iker"

sportsczy wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:Adan I think. Or Jesus Fernandez iirc.

Adan!  that's him.  He's still around lol.  But he left for Cagliari that summer to get away...

Mou said in 2012  "It's a technical decision. The coach analyses the situation, looks at the players at his disposal and chooses his team. At the moment, for me and my coaching staff, Adán is better than Iker"

He's atleti's 2nd GK and has played for Betis I think for the past few seasons

sportsczy wrote:

rincon wrote:@mole you are confused. You must be thinking about some other award that Scott Parker won. He certainly hasn't been PL player of the season, neither was Giggs with a dozen games played.

Football Writers' Association Footballer of the Year. It's just as prestigious. PFA and FWA carry the same weight.

Scott Parker won a FWA crazily and Giggs won the PFA just as crazily. FWA is actually the older award.

Yeah that's something else and not what I mentioned Hazard won.

Here's a quote on Modric in 2013:

Mordric left Tottenham for the Bernabeu in August but has struggled to adapt, despite making 20 appearances for Jose Mourinho’s side this term.

Having recently been given the unwanted title of ‘worst Spanish signing of the season’ by newspaper Marca, enough is starting to prove enough for the Croatian, who has scored just once since his move from White Hart Lane.

You would think Mou has never won a trophy in his career

rincon wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

rincon wrote:@mole you are confused. You must be thinking about some other award that Scott Parker won. He certainly hasn't been PL player of the season, neither was Giggs with a dozen games played.

Football Writers' Association Footballer of the Year. It's just as prestigious. PFA and FWA carry the same weight.

Scott Parker won a FWA crazily and Giggs won the PFA just as crazily. FWA is actually the older award.

Yeah that's something else and not what I mentioned Hazard won.

These awards mean so little. Modric has been disastrous for Madrid this season and he win BdO over Ronaldo... and Messi, Griezmann, etc. These things are more about internal politics. I would never use awards as an argument.

He's the worst coached expensive player for sure tbh

Yes, performances are meaningless, awards are meaningless, reality is meaningless, only thing that matters is that the agenda place no blame on a player playing, but on everything else.

Mou is a poor coach with a negative attitude at the moment. Now that doesn't magically remove any responsibility from his players. It doesn't have to be Mou is to blame 100% or Pogba is to blame a 100%. They are both clearly at fault.

+1 rincon

Also i dont see Scott Parker or Ryan Giggs here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_Player_of_the_Season

sportsczy wrote:I don't remember that kid that Mou destroyed at Madrid to get at Iker... had no business starting but he threw him to the wolves to make a point. It wasn't Diego Lopez. The poor kid got booed relentlessly because Iker was such a Spanish hero and he obviously wasn't better. They were booing Mou really...

The kid was so mentally scared that he fled Spain that summer and basically disappeared for good a couple of years later. Madrid fans help me here lol.

That Kid was Adán. He didn’t flee Spain, has been doing quite well away from Real Madrid. He is currently the backup at Atletico.

Sports all you are doing (over and over again) is showing that Mourinho is a shit coach. We all agree with you on that. But that doesn’t mean that Pogba, being a so called professional player doesn’t  bear some responsibility for his less than stellar continual performances.

Mole confusing Football Writers Award (which Scott Parker did win) and the PFA's Player of the year (which Giggs won back in 2010) with the Premier League's player of the year (which neither won).

Why England have so much awards is beyond me to be honest.

rincon wrote:

sportsczy wrote:What kind of player though Rincon.  Point me to a creative/attacking player that has thrived under Mourinho in recent times.  Ibra and that's it basically...  and we all know that Ibra would "get his" even if the devil himself was his manager.  His personality is that strong.

You answered your own question. So you are just saying Pogba is too weak mentally, unlike Ibra.

What needs to be explained about Rashford or Mata? Mou relies on them and they are playing at their level. Mata is a who he has always been, and Rashford came through and found his level with Mou.

Nope.. I don't think Ibra can count as an example. In fact, Ibra was pretty bad for United, yeah he scored a few vital goals because he is a boss but overall he was terrible for them, as the whole team was.
If you think Ibra was integral in Utd's EL win that season, Pogba was even more so.

You can't say Rashford "found his level" under Mou either. Before Mourinho came, most of us thought Rashfords level, or ceiling, would end up higher than it now looks.
Now who knows whether Mourinho was actually a main detrimental factor or not, but in context, on the whole, by now, we can definitively say Mourinho tends to be detrimental for young attacking players.
I mean, anytime Martial finds form (and he usually does after a couple of games and then scores and performs), he is immediately benched by Mourinho It's bizarre.
I'm not talking about 2010 or before. I'm talking about now (although we might remember stuff like Shevchenko's huge flopping at Chelsea, or Claudio Pizarro's).

The only attacking player that seemed to really perform under him in recent years was maybe Willian in the season everything fell apart at Chelsea.

Apart from that, Mourinho's bottom line has been negative since Real Madrid.
Yes Pogba is responsible for his own performances, but we know enough for a fact that we can call what Mourinho is creating there a hostile work environment. No other coach in the world throws his players so violently under the bus publicly and constantly as Mourinho.

United need to fire Mourinho, because he's doing an absolutely terrible job at coaching their team (NEGATIVE GOAL DIFFERENCE after 15 match days FFS ), and then worry about Pogba's form, performances, attitude once a new coach gets in.
My guess would be, most of the problems will have vanished.

Lad's getting desperate to start lmao

How exactly was Ibra bad? a 35/6 year old Ibra was one of their best players. The bar for a top player in his prime should be higher than for someone on the eve of retirement, yet it isn't in this case.

Rashford is a 21 yo forward that is a protagonist in United. Out with that youth player hype that he had at 18 cause he played a handful of matches. He has made it in the team.

Hans you are arguing that Mou is a bad manager. Yes, obviously. That has little to do with Pogba's professionalism, mentality, personal responsibility, and #PogFeelings. This is what is being argued here, regardless of sports constant moving of the goal posts.

So Jose is at fault for Pogba failing at the basics of a midfielder or a footballer in general?

Doc wrote:So Jose is at fault for Pogba failing at the basics of a midfielder or a footballer in general?

Apparently so

Can we make a case for Pogba being a modern version o Ruud Gullit? i dont think i have ever seen this comparison

Mr Nick09 wrote:Can we make a case for Pogba being a modern version o Ruud Gullit? i dont think i have ever seen this comparison

No. The comparison is absolutely retarded. They play completely different positions.

sportsczy wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Can we make a case for Pogba being a modern version o Ruud Gullit? i dont think i have ever seen this comparison

No. The comparison is absolutely retarded. They play completely different positions.

That's my point, Pogba wants to play higher up the field. He is a retarded midfielder, maybe playing closer to the box would allow him to express himself more. Look at what Pochettino did with Ali...and Pogba is 1000% better