I was in an accident and got retrograde amnesia. My memory has wiped the last 8 seasons.

Let me try and bring some seriousness to this topic.

I think this is the first time in years where Perez hasn't interfered with transfers and is allowing Zidane to build the team in his image. Madrid haven't gone in for any 'galactico' and they have tried to focus on their weaknesses and are building the team from last season which was a successful campaign however lacked in the league due to some turbulent times early on under Rafa.

Therefore it's interesting to see how Madrid do in the league this season. Chemistry won't be a problem as the team is pretty much the same with 2-3 squad additions. They could sign another defender to cover LB which would only help. Asensio might prove to be the spark James failed to be when they needed one.

However the issue is that it's really difficult for any team to win La Liga till Messi either leaves or retires or declines. Only 2 teams have actually won La liga outside barca in 8 years. Both seasons where Messi wasn't at his best or was injured (think ratregas sabotaged one of the seasons).

Barca are favourites to go into this season but Atletico will be there and so will madrid as always. It will require unreal consistency for Madrid to get the upper hand. Big big task for Zidane.

Ratregas

I agree though RG, also it's not just Messi tbh. It's Suarez and Neymar too tbh, not to mention they have probably more depth than they have since the prime of the Pep years.

That team is probably more set up for a 38 game season than anything because of how good the attack is they don't need to play well against shit teams.

CL is a different story obviously.

It can be argued that Suarez was better than Messi last season in the league but tbh Messi enables Barca to reach that height.

They've had:

1. Mou who won a Liga, then famously melted down as he usually does.

2. Ancelotti who we all know is the Cup king but was not up to La Liga's unusually high league standards.

3. Benitez. Benitez

4. Zidane who did extremely well his first season considering the shape the team was in and the pressure involved. Still won a CL, FFS.

I think this season will be golden for him, considering he's universally loved and has some very good momentum from last season. Not that Atleti or Barca will roll over, but the key to it all will be consistency. I'd say for him to concentrate on Liga and Copa del Rey since CL curse is active.

True

Also they were really good without Messi last year wasn't they?  Doubt Atletico and Real can deal without their best player for too long tbh.

When it comes to a league season they just have an advantage that the other teams don't have which is why they win it the majority of the time.

Ratregas

Suarez and Neymar have enough star power for Barca not to miss Messi.

The hilarious thing is that once the Kommander grows old and Madrid rely less on him, they'd probably work better as an unit and achieve better league results, since we all know he cares more about Pichichis than league cups.

RM won't win it this year. Simply do not have the depth that Barca does. And with an additional competition it will be too much for the whites.

Real Madrid just don't have the consistency of Barca to win the league, at the beginning of the season we lose too many points against teams we should beat easily and by the time the team finds some form, the gap has already become too large and we're playing chase up for the rest of the season.

Thanks @doc

I nearly forgot about the time Liverpool won the
And who doesn't remember that time they won the

Envious

Just because none of you were born to witness the 18 Premier League titles that Liverpool have won in their existence it doesn't mean they never happened...

15-16

BAR 5-4 SEV, no Neymar, Messi carried to win
SEV 2-1 BAR, no Messi, loss
BAR 2-1 SEV, MSN fit, Messi with individual goal
SEV 0-2 BAR, no Suarez, Messi carried to win

16-17

SEV 0-2 BAR, no Neymar, Messi MoM
BAR 3-0 SEV, no Neymar or Suarez, Messi MoM























Well not really, it's how deluded 99% of GL is.

juve_gigi wrote:

Myesyats wrote:

Freeza wrote:


I thought it was because Barca had the greatest player of all time.

Well, I can be wrong.

I'm sure according to a large part of Madrid's fanbase Ronaldo is the greatest of all time. Definitely debatable.

PELE - "Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi.  At the moment the best player in the world is Ronaldo. I admire him, if I had to set up a national team he would be my first pick. But in the meantime I feel sorry because today and the last five years, you just mention two big stars. Some years ago, you had a lot of players."

Kommander...  

Jan Mulder (teammate Cruyff Ajax) - "Lionel Messi is by far the best player ever."
Willem van Hanegem (teammate Cruyff WC74) - "Messi is in my eyes the greatest of all-time."
Hugo Sotil (teammate Cruyff Barcelona) - "I've played with geniuses like Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, but for me Leo Messi is the best player ever."
Marcial Pina (teammate Cruyff Barcelona) - "Messi is the best player I've ever seen, better than Maradona and Cruyff together."

Osvaldo Ardiles (teammate Maradona WC82) – "I've already said this that Messi is not only the best football player right now, but also the best football player ever in the history of football. I played with Maradona for 7 years. I thought I'd never see another player like that but I have to say Messi is better."
Cesar Menotti (coach Maradona WC82) - "Messi is the best player in the world. He's at the level of the best Maradona."
Jorge Valdano (teammate Maradona WC86) - "Messi is Maradona every day. It is June 1986 for 5 years now. The last 5 years, Messi is the Maradona of the World Cup in Mexico."
Diego Simeone (teammate Maradona Sevilla/WC94) - "Diego has filled us with emotions. But between the cracks, without doubt, Messi is better than Maradona."
Francisco Carrasco (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is impressive, he does wonders. What he does in the last metres, Maradona couldn't do as often."
Bernd Schuster (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is the best player I have seen in my life."
Pichi Alonso (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "I played with Maradona, and Messi is a lot better, scores more, more of a team player, physically stronger..."
Julio Alberto (teammate Maradona Barcelona) - "Messi is better than Diego. He's from another galaxy. Better than Pele or Maradona."

Carlos Bianchi - "A few days ago I did a talk for a business and a Brazilian asked me in the middle of the conference who I considered the best footballer in history, Maradona or Pele. I answered that, with all due respect to those two, right now I see Messi as superior to everyone."
Javier Zanetti - "Who's better, Messi or Maradona? Messi has overtaken Diego: Leo is the greatest of all time."
Gabriel Milito - "It doesn't seem right to me to claim that you have to win the World Cup in order to be regarded as the best ever. He just keeps on improving and outdoing himself year after year and that's why he is the best ever for me."
Javier Saviola - "Nobody plays like Messi, and I think no one ever did. And as Guardiola said, he does it every three days."
Alfio Basile (coach Argentina) - "I'm the only one who's coached both Messi and Maradona. No one has ever coached both of them. I've got the world record there. Two world-wide stars. But I always say Messi is a real extraterrestrial, cause at the speed he goes with the ball glued to his feet I haven't seen nor will ever see someone like that. He does every play as if he was watching it from the stands. As soon I saw him with the young team, I thought 'this is a serious thing, this guy will be the best player in the world'. Because it's incredible. If you watch him in a practice, by your side, he does things wich are incredible to be done for a human being!"
Sergio Aguero - "Messi is the best in history."

Justo Tejada (teammate Di Stefano) - "Messi is from another galaxy. He does more difficult things than Di Stefano, Pele or Maradona."

José Altafini (teammate Pele WC58) - "Messi is better than Maradona."

Ivan Helguera (teammate Zidane/Ronaldo Real Madrid) - "For me, Messi is the best player in history"
Michael Owen (teammate Zidane/Ronaldo Real Madrid) - "Best player of all time? Messi."
Ruud van Nistelrooy (teammate Ronaldo Real Madrid) - "Messi is on a different level. The fact he is doing what he is year after year says that he is the best of all time."
Mircea Lucescu (coach Ronaldo Inter) - "I don't think there ever has been or will be a phenomenon like Messi. He's even better than Pele."
Albert Ferrer (teammate Ronaldo Barcelona) - "I played with Romario, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Laudrup and Stoichkov but Messi is the best I've seen"
Luis Enrique (teammate Ronaldo Barcelona) - "Messi is the best player I've seen in my life."

Paolo Maldini - "Messi makes the difference. I think he reached and surpassed the level of Maradona."
Stoichkov - “Messi is one rung higher on the ladder than Maradona, Cruyff and Pele”
Dino Zoff - "I've faced Maradona, Pele and Cruyff, and I think Messi is up there with those players."
Guardiola (coach Bayern): "I didn't see Pele, but Leo is the best player ever. He's unique."
Graeme Souness - "Lionel Messi is the best player ever - and it's not even close. Messi surpasses Pele and he's also way out ahead of Maradona - it's not even close anymore. Messi is a problem solver, a game changer, the greatest player to have played the game."
Xavi - "Messi is the best player in the world, and for me the best ever. Just 27, still getting better. He's only competing against himself. He's the smallest, but he's the best at everything, even in the air. Messi is a phenomenon. I'm not about to say anything new. What Leo has been doing is amazing. He's even the best at defending. When he puts pressure on the full-backs, he wins the ball back. He's the best at everything, no matter what he does."
Jupp Heynckes - "Messi has swept the board at the Ballon d'Or in the last few years. He's a genius and is certainly on a par with Maradona and Pele."
Ottmar Hitzfeld - "Messi is, together with Pele, one of the best that ever lived. Breaking Muller's record was a matter of time."
Kalusha Bwalya (ZAM most capped) - "Messi is the best player in the world and for me the best in history. Best player I have seen in my life."
Patrick Kluivert - "Is Messi the best player of all time? For me, yes."
Hans Krankl (AUS best player) - "Messi is from another planet, the best player in the world and the best in history. Unbelievable, a wonder."
Adriano Galliani - "Messi is the best player ever. And this is said by someone who has seen Maradona and Pele play."
Luis Suarez Miramontes (Ballon d'Or 1960) - "There has never been a fast, skillful, technical player who also scores so many goals. Until Messi. He has it all."

Enrique Orizaola (ex-coach, 90 years of age) - "Messi is the best player I've ever seen, better than Maradona."
Jose Luis Chilavert - "Messi is the best, he is better than Maradona."
Arsene Wenger - Who's the best player of all-time? "Lionel Messi."
David Villa -  ”I haven’t seen anything like him on a football pitch. Look, there were many brilliant players throughout history, but with all respect to the opinions of other people, no one is even close to Messi.”
Gerry Armstrong - "I know what it's like to score against Barcelona, but end up losing 4-1. My first goal in Spanish league was against Barcelona. Unfortunately a certain Diego Maradona was in the side for Barcelona and he just took control and they beat us 4-1. Look at this little man (Messi), well, I think he's better than Maradona, I think he better than anybody I've ever seen."
Ray Hudson - On Messi. "Greatest football player I've ever seen, and certainly one of the most fabulous footballers in the history of the game, in my opinion, the greatest ever."
Rudi Voller - "Messi is now in the same league as Pele and Maradona”
Peter Schmeichel - "I've played against some of the greatest, including Maradona, but Messi might be the best I've ever seen."
Ronald de Boer - "To talk about Messi, people should stand up. Best ever? From all those I saw, yes."
Michel -  "Is Messi better than Maradona? For me yes. I've played against Maradona and I can say that what I have seen Messi, I have not seen done by anyone since I'm in the football world and now I am getting closer to fifty years"

Wayne Rooney - "Messi is the best ever"
Jose Nunez - "Messi is the number one, the best player I've ever seen, better than Maradona."
Arda Turan - "Messi is out of this world, he's an alien. For me, he's the best player in the history of football."
Koldo Aguirre - "I thought I had seen the best player in the world: Di Stefano. But now I've changed: Messi is the best."
Leonardo Araujo - "It's official: Leo is better than Maradona."
David Luiz - "Messi is fantastic, he's the best player in history."
Bernat - "Messi is the best player in history. Everyone who understands football a little thinks the same."
Alan Smith - "I saw Maradona - shared same pitch - but Messi's extraordinary consistency elevates him just above his countryman"
Marco Reus - "Who's the best player ever? Lionel Messi."
Romerito - "There's always the talk about the World Cup, but for me, Messi is already better than Maradona."
Arturo Vidal - "I've only seen footage here and there of Maradona, but I think Messi is better."
Oscar Garcia - "Messi is the best player I've ever seen."
Dennis Wise - "Messi's 25 but i can say he is the greatest footballer i've ever seen-"
Vitolo - "Messi is the best player of all time and today he had a stormer."
Gary Lineker - "Messi is indisputably the greatest player ever to don a pair of football boots. Don't even attempt to argue the point."
David Silva - "For me, Messi is the best player of all times."
John Terry - "And, quite clearly for me, Messi is the best ever."
Michael Owen - "Best player of all time? 1. Messi 2. Ronaldo 3. Maradona"
Frank Lampard - "I grew up with Maradona, he was my favourite player, but for me, Messi is the best, not just of this era, but of every era."
Ivan Rakitic - "Leo is not only the best player in the world now but the best player in the history of football."
Juan Laporta - “Messi is the best player in the world and the best in the history of football."
Rene Maulensteen - "I see Messi as the best player of all-time."
Pablo Aimar - "For several years, I thought there would not be another player like Maradona. And now I see that Messi is on a par him with and with the best of all time."
Cassano - Cassano: "Messi is the number one, and there's no number two. Then you might have a number three, four... And I'm talking about history! Youth idol? Maradona. But now there's only one player for me. Barça's number 10. Period."
Domenico Criscito - "Messi is alien of football! An extraordinary player.. The best of all times!"
Gary Neville - "Messi, greatest player of modern times and arguably all-time."
Albert Luque - "Messi is the best player in history."
Miku - "Messi is the best player in history."

Steven Gerrard - "Messi, the best ever? I think so."
Steven Jovetic - "Messi is the best in the history of the game. First is Messi, then come all the others. He's an inspiration for me."
Thiago Alcantara - "Greatest player of all time? For me, no doubt: Lionel Messi. We have the pleasure to enjoy today the best ever."
David Lomban - "Toughest I've marked? Messi. No one has his reaction time. He decides at the last moment. Best I've ever seen."
James Wilson - "Messi, greatest of all time."
Llorente - "Messi is exceptional. I think he's the best player of all time. He does different things."

Ronaldo Koeman - "You can't understand Barça's last decade without Messi. He's the key. The best player ever, no doubt."
Puyol "Who is the best footballer in football history in my opinion? Leo Messi."

Denis Suarez - "Messi is unique, he's a step above the rest. He's the best player in the history of football."
Guardiola - "This Barça era wouldn't have been possible without Messi, the best player that has ever existed and the best that'll ever exist."
Brian McBride - "I think Messi is the best player ever. He’s changed the way people look at how you can do things with the ball at your feet."
Pique - "Messi is someting else. Natural talent, he can play at every position, madness. He's the best player in history."
Sergi Roberto - “Leo is the best player in history, without a doubt!”
Antonio Pizzi (coach Chile CA16) - "Lionel Messi is the best player of all-time."

James Rodriguez - "I always watch Messi and try to copy him, Messi is a step above the rest. The best player ever." before joining Real Madrid

Also both Madrid's Ligas were fakes, Barca shoud've 8 Ligas the last 8 seasons, with fair refereeing. 11-12 Barca were denied 10 atleast 50/50 penalties in a row, which makes chance of non corruption less than 0.1%. In 13-14 Messi actually scored the league winning goal against Reftico, but Refdrid whistled it wrongfully offside.

RealGunner wrote:
However the issue is that it's really difficult for any team to win La Liga till Messi either leaves or retires or declines..

You had it there for duration of two posts, you earned respect there for a second,

and then you lost it.

RealGunner wrote:It can be argued that Suarez was better than Messi last season in the league but tbh Messi enables Barca to reach that height.

09-10 Messi chosen PoT by players and coaches, Barca wins Liga.



10-11 Messi chosen PoT by players and coaches, Barca wins Liga



11-12 Messi chosen PoT by players and coaches, refs give Liga for Refdrid (by not giving Barca 10 at least 50/50 penalties in row)



12-13 Messi chosen PoT by players and coaches, Barca wins Liga



13-14 Perez omits Messi from PoT vote so Fakenaldo can win one (being 3rd), Messi scores league winning goal but it's wrongfully ruled offside by Refdrid and Liga given to Reftico.



14-15 Messi chosen PoT by players and coaches, Barca wins Liga



15-16 , Barca wins Liga



Perez can steal PoT from Messi and give it to Fakenaldo and refs can steal Ligas from Barcelona and give it to Refdrids. But there's couple of constants and logical realities in this, that even their sticky hands cannot reach, Messi performing the best every single season, enough to win the league, and whoscored confirming it, in a real world.

Why was Messi massively outproduced by Suarez in 15-16? I didn't watch the whole season. What happened?

Curtinho wrote:Why was Messi massively outproduced by Suarez in 15-16? I didn't watch the whole season. What happened?

Because Messi (and Neymar) created everything for him.

15-16 Liga Throughballs

33 Messi
10 Neymar
4 Suarez

The same way Fakenaldo outscores everybody in Refdrid.

But Suarez had just as many assists.

Curtinho wrote:But Suarez had just as many assists.

Messi plays behind Suarez and Neymar where most of his quality ends being pre-assists not showing in G+A, and what throughball stats show.