The Three Lions

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Post by sportsczy Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:49 pm

Here's a stat for you...  England has won exactly two elimination round games in all the Euros since 1960.  A QF win in 1968 and another in 1996.  That's it.

I think reality is far far different than expectations for England NT.

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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:03 pm

breva wrote:The problem is that England are really a second tier national team but have supporters based in England and the U.S. that have unrealistic expectations. So it almost always ends in disappointment for their supporters. The Hungarians cheered their team upon its return to Hungary for winning the group.
:facepalm: :facepalm:
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Post by LeSwagg James Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:06 pm

This was written before the game by Steve McManaman

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/euro-2016-steve-mcmanaman-exclusive--iceland-is-as-good-as-a-bye-for-england---defeat-is-unthinkable-124605226.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw

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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:22 pm

I think the welsh team were very disrespectful to the England team when they lost. funny thing is the welsh team is mostly made up or Englishman that cant make the England squad. most of them players are team mates at English clubs.
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Post by Firenze Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:26 pm

sportsczy wrote:Here's a stat for you...  England has won exactly two elimination round games in all the Euros since 1960.  A QF win in 1968 and another in 1996.  That's it.

I think reality is far far different than expectations for England NT.


Majority of armchair fans are definitely delusional. We have individual quality to get past a lot of the teams on paper but they all play like a bunch of mercenaries with a club mentality. Been that way for as long as I can remember. I will never hype our NT again until I see some actual results in competitions. We are absolutely a second tier team on the international stage.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:31 pm

I wish we were 2nd tier lol.
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Post by LeBéninois Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:33 pm

England has the talent. If everyone is expecting Belgium to be very good/great because of their players so it's right to expect the same from England. The first problems they should adress are imo :

1- The manager ( Not easy to find tbh but he must a great motivator )
2- Create a sense of unity and tha's why a great motivator is needed. Everytime I Watch England, it's like a bunch of talented players but I don't feel unity like in Belgium or France. It's more like here Rooney from Man U, Kane from Spurs, Sterling from Pool etc...
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:34 pm

I'll throw this out...  EPL has been tactically woeful for a long time.  Since all the English players are in EPL, they're not very tactically sound.  Not to mention the managers are all EPL trained as well.

The issues are mostly tactical on NT imo.

Now that foreign managers with high tactical acumen are flooding the EPL, I think this will change.  Granted, it may take a few years.  But there's a significant shift here.  

Will the FA hire a proper manager though?  I don't think an English manager works tbh.  Not until they're better trained.  I would go for another foreign one until the quality of English managers improves.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:38 pm

Personally while the tactics are an issue, the biggest issue is how these players are coached for years.

Pretty much all the players were making really dumb decisions, which isn't something which can be pinned on the usual culprits.

Make the wrong decision over and over again, that's on the players and it's not really anyones fault that they are thick.
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Post by LeBéninois Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:38 pm

sportsczy wrote:I'll throw this out...  EPL has been tactically woeful for a long time.  Since all the English players are in EPL, they're not very tactically sound.  Not to mention the managers are all EPL trained as well.

The issues are mostly tactical on NT imo.

Now that foreign managers with high tactical acumen are flooding the EPL, I think this will change.  Granted, it may take a few years.  But there's a significant shift here.  

Will the FA hire a proper manager though?  I don't think an English manager works tbh.  Not until they're better trained.  I would go for another foreign one until the quality of English managers improves.


Yeah but even that foreign manager is not easy to find . Capello for instance was such a bad fit.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:54 pm

Capello is past it. Why not give Prandelli a shot? I know he had his critics in Italy. But I personally thought Italy played very nice and tactical football. His issue was that Pirlo became a liability in 2014 all of a sudden and he didn't have the time to transition out of that. Also, Balotelli failed Italy and he shouldn't have been counted on.

But when you look at it... he took Italy to 2012 Euro final and did very well in confederation's cup in 2013 as well.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:55 pm

@mole...  too many Spurs, Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal players right now when one of those clubs are having recent success.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:07 pm

I don't know what to pin their idiocy on then Laughing

Because i kept seeing stupid decision after stupid decision, something that to me suggests bad coaching from a young age.

Maybe at club level they constantly have great coaches in their ear to make sure they limit the mistakes, probably helps they around intelligent, foreign players too i suppose.

That was my biggest take away from the Euros anyway, just pure idiocy of decision making again and again.
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Post by LeBéninois Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:11 pm

@Sport . Yeah but Prandelli is Italian so imo it's a factor. Italy NT has something that I'm yet to see in England's : Unity. Once the players have the right mindset, you can focus on tactics because you know they are enough leaders in the team. Balotelli shone in 2012 because he was surrounded by leaders and great players.
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Post by Jay29 Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:39 pm

I'm all for a foreign manager but he must be able to speak good English and handle the press well. The biggest flaw of Capello's reign was his inability to properly communicate with players and the press, and that made him an easy target.

As for the players, I don't think they're dumb as much as they're incapable of thinking for themselves and making the right decisions on the pitch. I think at club level they rely on having specific instructions for everything and having a system to fall back on, whereas for England that goes out the window because not only is the system different to what they're used to the plan probably isn't as detailed.

There's also the fact that for some reason they can't handle tournament pressure. Someone like Kane who had a great year for Spurs and has scored in big, high pressure games, or players like Hart, Cahill, Smalling and Rooney who have been in cup finals and won trophies all fell apart during this tournament. It's a really bizarre phenomenon that I can only imagine comes from a real lack of unity or desire to really play for England. They'll fight and scrap for their clubs, but not for their country. The manager probably has something to do with that as well, I guess. Hodgson isn't an inspiring leader nor a notable motivator. Nobody's going give everything for him like they would have done for Mourinho or Ferguson.

Anyway, a few more names have been tossed into the betting pool to replace Hodgson:

Guus Hiddink 16/1
Laurent Blac 22/1
Chris Waddle 25/1 (rofl rofl)
Manuel Pellegrini 28/1
Robert Mancini 33/1

Surprised Tim Sherwood's name hasn't come up yet Laughing

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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:36 pm

Sturridge is better than Benzema, Martial, or Lewandowski IMO
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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Jay29 wrote:I'm all for a foreign manager but he must be able to speak good English and handle the press well. The biggest flaw of Capello's reign was his inability to properly communicate with players and the press, and that made him an easy target.

As for the players, I don't think they're dumb as much as they're incapable of thinking for themselves and making the right decisions on the pitch. I think at club level they rely on having specific instructions for everything and having a system to fall back on, whereas for England that goes out the window because not only is the system different to what they're used to the plan probably isn't as detailed.

There's also the fact that for some reason they can't handle tournament pressure. Someone like Kane who had a great year for Spurs and has scored in big, high pressure games, or players like Hart, Cahill, Smalling and Rooney who have been in cup finals and won trophies all fell apart during this tournament. It's a really bizarre phenomenon that I can only imagine comes from a real lack of unity or desire to really play for England. They'll fight and scrap for their clubs, but not for their country. The manager probably has something to do with that as well, I guess. Hodgson isn't an inspiring leader nor a notable motivator. Nobody's going give everything for him like they would have done for Mourinho or Ferguson.

Anyway, a few more names have been tossed into the betting pool to replace Hodgson:

Guus Hiddink 16/1
Laurent Blac 22/1
Chris Waddle 25/1 (rofl rofl)
Manuel Pellegrini 28/1
Robert Mancini 33/1

Surprised Tim Sherwood's name hasn't come up yet Laughing
that and poor managers are exactly whats wrong. at u21 level England compeat very well with all the top teams.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:44 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Sturridge is better than Benzema, Martial, or Lewandowski IMO


English media actually claimed Kane is better than Benzema before the euros Laughing

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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:47 pm

Wenger should become England coach. Or Big Sam maybe. Why the hell not.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:50 pm

At least Big sam will have a certain way and wont change it.

------------------Paul Robinson----------------------
Walker---------Smalling-----Shawcross--------Rose
Townsend-------Noble---Drinkwater----------Sterling
------------Carroll----------Defoe-----------------------

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Post by Adit Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:54 pm

What a disappointment. I was looking forward to France vs England match. Two cockups in one week.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:51 pm

Wenger is FA's no 1 target lol.

Will never happen.


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Post by Jay29 Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:55 pm

The FA are set to do a "worldwide" search for a new manager, and are prepared to have Southgate be an interim manager if they need to. Search could take months. Wenger would be a "prime candidate" but highly unlikely.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36657247

Imagine Wenger in charge of all these Spurs players. Would be weird.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:59 pm

Southgate? The guy who has been doing an even worse job with the U- team than Sir Roy with the first team?

Jesus.
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Post by Jay29 Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:00 pm

He won the Toulon Tournament without any strikers and playing a 4-6-0, which makes him the most successful England manager since Sir Alf Ramsey or something.

Although his failures at the U21 Euros are uncannily similar to the first team's.


Last edited by Jay29 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:38 pm

god I hope wales get beat bad in the next game
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