BarrileteCosmico wrote:Hans I've seen complaints about this from UK and German Twitter accounts

These complaints are from Gen Z /millennials who get all their cues from what's going on in the US via social media. In France, nobody has ever heard of " Le blackface " or " L'appropriation culturelle " until these kids started whining about these concepts a couple of years ago.

Just reading the last few comments on this and it seems like white people are mad that black people are offended? What's new

Myesyats wrote:I have 2 friends who both have dogs named n*gger

Chocolate cake in Poland is called "a little n*gger"

it's probably because Poland is one of the most racist countries in the world??? If not, at least top 5

"If not, at least top 5"

Probably Iniesta didn't want to lose any sponsor and his agent/advisor ask him to make public excuses

It just looks a bit dumb statement since only trolls would see racism in that picture

Clutch wrote:Just reading the last few comments on this and it seems like white people are mad that black people are offended? What's new

Standard stuff really.

Only that in that context it makes complete sense

Doc wrote:

Clutch wrote:Just reading the last few comments on this and it seems like white people are mad that black people are offended? What's new

Standard stuff really.

I would categorize my own outrage as "mad that people are mistakenly applying their own cultural context to others who had no intention whatsoever to offend". If Iniesta were from the US or even from another anglo country it would be very different.

Given the historical treatment of blacks by the Spanish, I'd say the outrage is warranted. This was not a good look for Iniesta. He should've known better.

McLewis wrote:Given the historical treatment of blacks by the Spanish, I'd say the outrage is warranted. This was not a good look for Iniesta. He should've known better.

Seriously?

Dude, it's the three wise men from the orient. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi

People should pick their battles better.
Because the way this is going, the important ones won't be fought or won.

McLewis wrote:Given the historical treatment of blacks by the Spanish, I'd say the outrage is warranted. This was not a good look for Iniesta. He should've known better.

And how should he know better? This is not an issue in Spain, it's not part of the conversation, he was never educated that doing this is wrong as people in the US are. On top of that, most professional players receive a terrible education fit only for the bare minimum requirements while they focus most of their energies on training. I wouldn't expect many of them to be exposed to what blackface is or be aware of it.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

McLewis wrote:Given the historical treatment of blacks by the Spanish, I'd say the outrage is warranted. This was not a good look for Iniesta. He should've known better.

Seriously?

Dude, it's the three wise men from the orient. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Magi

People should pick their battles better.
Because the way this is going, the important ones won't be fought or won.

I consider a person who is not of African-descent painting their face to look like one to be offensive. That's my point on this topic. I'm not here to pick battles . I don't even see this as a battle. Just to stating my opinion.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

McLewis wrote:Given the historical treatment of blacks by the Spanish, I'd say the outrage is warranted. This was not a good look for Iniesta. He should've known better.

And how should he know better? This is not an issue in Spain, it's not part of the conversation, he was never educated that doing this is wrong as people in the US are. On top of that, most professional players receive a terrible education fit only for the bare minimum requirements while they focus most of their energies on training. I wouldn't expect many of them to be exposed to what blackface is or be aware of it.

He doesn't get to hide behind ignorance. Not in this day and age. Not with information literally at our finger tips. That's a poor excuse honestly. If I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say his publicist or whoever in his entourage is in charge of his public image really messed up here by not catching him before he posted this picture.

Personally, I wanna give Iniesta the benefit of the doubt. Partly due to bias and another part to what BC wrote. But in this day and age, no one involved in that picture knew blackface would be actually offensive to a lot of people (you know, black people)? Wasn't Iniesta or anyone aware of the backlash Griezmann faced doing that same shit? Kinda difficult to feign ignorance for something that is known.

At least Ini just sat there with a dopey look and didn't cover himself in full black make up like Griezmann.

It actually seems to be pretty obvious to me that he didn't know it would cause offense. That's why he posted it and apologized for it. If he knew it beforehand why do that? He could've just not posted it or not apologized.

I don't really see what "this day and age" means tbh. Do people know everything these days? People in Europe not knowing about blackface (or it causing offense) is hardly surprising. It's only became a topic recently and even then only in a few countries. Of course it's not like no one knows it and it's secrete knowledge but it's hardly common knowledge either. Yes we have "information at our fingertips" but that always seemed like a strange point to make in any argument because you still have to think something could be controversial to google it. Why would you google if something is offensive if you just never considered it as something controversial to begin with?

In the end that doesn't - in any way - mean blackface isn't problematic or racist btw
It just means that it's very easy for Iniesta (or others) not to know about it beforehand.


Oh and btw I know blackface doesn't have the same history in Europe but that doesn't mean it automatically isn't racist.

McLewis wrote:
He doesn't get to hide behind ignorance. Not in this day and age.  Not with information literally at our finger tips. That's a poor excuse honestly. If I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say his publicist or whoever in his entourage is in charge of his public image really messed up here by not catching him before he posted this picture.

And in this day and age, your fellow countrymen know even less about Spain and its culture.

Seriously, I know from experience that the average American thinks Spanish = brown mestizo from Latin America. I suspect most of them don't even know what "Spain" actually is. Yet a Spanish guy is supposed to know about the racial history of the US? give me a break. I'm all for educating people on these issues, but the notion that people from other countries should just " know better " is just typical American arrogance.

farfan wrote:

McLewis wrote:
He doesn't get to hide behind ignorance. Not in this day and age.  Not with information literally at our finger tips. That's a poor excuse honestly. If I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say his publicist or whoever in his entourage is in charge of his public image really messed up here by not catching him before he posted this picture.

And in this day and age, your fellow countrymen know even less about Spain and its culture.

Seriously, I know from experience that the average American thinks Spanish = brown mestizo from Latin America. I suspect most of them don't even know what "Spain" actually is. Yet a Spanish guy is supposed to know about the racial history of the US? give me a break. I'm all for educating people on these issues, but the notion that people from other countries should just " know better " is just typical American arrogance.

You should also know that we Americans are not monolithic. Some of us know more about Spain than others. Some of us know less. You'd do well to not paint us with too broad a brush. For my part, I won't presume to know what my compatriots know and don't know. That would indeed be the very arrogance you referred to.

I can only speak to what I know personally. What I can tell you is my knowledge of Spain is derived principally from 2 areas: My love of football (though I don't particularly care for La Liga) and my love of history (specifically Ancient and European history). Spain figures prominently in both for obvious reasons.

What I said applies to most countries really. In France, the average person didn't know what Puerto Rico was until Ricky Martin came along (I'm not even kidding).

I guess my point is that we should have relastic expectations of what people know about foreign cultures. When someone offends a particular group, let's try to educate them and give them the benefit of the doubt instead of chastising them and acussing them of racism and bigotry.

What about what Iniesta posted is racist? There is no particular history of it being used offensively in Spain. Its American culture being projected onto a different country. It understandable that Americans find it offensive, but to get him to apologize or call him racist? That's just misunderstanding everything.

rincon wrote:What about what Iniesta posted is racist? There is no particular history of it being used offensively in Spain. Its American culture being projected onto a different country. It understandable that Americans find it offensive, but to get him to apologize or call him racist? That's just misunderstanding everything.

Thanks to social media, netflix, youtube etc..American culture is slowly becoming the standard western culture.

In recent years, I've been hearing about stereotypes that never existed when I was growing up. Black people's supposed love of fried chicken, white people's unseasoned food, Asian people's inability to drive etc..

American's tend to only view "white people" as anglo-saxons, in which case they are right about the food. Food in northern europe is dire.

Clutch wrote:

Myesyats wrote:I have 2 friends who both have dogs named n*gger

Chocolate cake in Poland is called "a little n*gger"

it's probably because Poland is one of the most racist countries in the world??? If not, at least top 5

Not really, no. There's prejudice against Muslims but that's not racism because it's about religion and not race.

Don't believe everything they say in the media.

We don't need to, your posts in this thread are enough evidence tbh.

If only I cared about your opinion.

Myesyats wrote:

Clutch wrote:

Myesyats wrote:I have 2 friends who both have dogs named n*gger

Chocolate cake in Poland is called "a little n*gger"

it's probably because Poland is one of the most racist countries in the world??? If not, at least top 5

Not really, no. There's prejudice against Muslims but that's not racism because it's about religion and not race.

Why are these sentiments so prevalent in Poland and other  Eastern bloc countries? No disrespect, but these countries are neither rich enough to attract immigrants nor geopolitically relevant enough to attract terrorist attacks. Muslims should be the least of the worries of people living there.

Myesyats wrote:

Clutch wrote:

Myesyats wrote:I have 2 friends who both have dogs named n*gger

Chocolate cake in Poland is called "a little n*gger"

it's probably because Poland is one of the most racist countries in the world??? If not, at least top 5

Not really, no. There's prejudice against Muslims but that's not racism because it's about religion and not race.

Don't believe everything they say in the media.

wat