Re: Maradona's acheivment in 1986

by Bankz Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:06 pm

linetty wrote:
M99 wrote:
Don't call me James wrote:

You are right. He's better.

And how do you know that?
He has eyes, I suppose.

Linetty my man Proud

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:07 pm

Not gonna argue anything about Maradona, i wasn't alive to know lol.

But i'm pretty damn sure City finished 4th the season before they signed Aguero?

by M99 Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:11 pm

Bankz wrote:
linetty wrote:
M99 wrote:

And how do you know that?
He has eyes, I suppose.

Linetty my man

Yeah eyes by which Maradona was never seen Laughing

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:13 pm

Looks like City finished 3rd, 3 points ahead of Arsenal in 4th ( of course Proud

) and 9 points behind Man Yoo in first.

by S Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:15 pm

But whats the point you trying to make ?

by Dnmac4 Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:35 pm

This is just a bad argument to have. There is nothing to prove or can be proven.

The couple things that kind of bother me is this notion that Messi needs to go to some mid-table club to prove something. He's not Neymar, he wasn't destroying the Brazilian league at a young age and then had his pick of teams to choose from and chose Barca who happened to be one of the top 2-3 teams in the world.

Messi was brought to Barca at 12-13 years old. He's going to be a one club man and he's played with a bunch of homegrown players he grew up watching / playing with who are also largely going to be one club players until there final 2-3 years where they go collect a paycheck. Barca has a system and the pull there is seemingly stronger than anywhere else.

It's not Messi's fault he signed with a club that was going to have it's golden generation. How was he supposed to know that at 12-13? It turned out to be a great decision, he shouldn't be knocked because of it.

The second thing that bothers me is that everyone just totally writes off that Argentina was in overtime in the world cup final for gods sake. His attacking partners massively underperformed (it was pathetic) and Messi dragged them as far as he could. I don't know what more people want out of him. His Argentina team lost to a much better Germany team who would never let one man beat them. The service was there for Argentina to win that game and they fell short.

No one will ever agree on who is better, but IMO I think it's pretty obvious Messi is the better club player. Now that no one has the Xaviesta excuse anymore or anything like that, it's not Messi's fault Diego chose to play for Napoli.

by Harmonica Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:51 pm

Bankz wrote:At least the Italian league was the best in the world then and btw how many European cups or CL have man city won?
and how bout what he did as a teenager in Boca? Or where they also man-city?
How bout what Argentina has become since he left?
How bout what Napoli has become since he left?

Maradona's Napoli got eliminated first and second round in European Cup, Aguero's ManC twice group stage and R16.
Maradona and Aguero both won WC U20 with Golden Ball.
Maradona lost 3/5 games with defending champions in WC82.
The same Argentina that carried Maradona WC90 final, won CA91 without him.
A lot of players left Napoli.

by ahmad25 Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:17 pm

How can 1 player carry the team? Isnt it funny?
What skill he used? Do you really think he was better scorer than messi? Or better dribbler? Just tell me what skill he used to carry "average" napoli team

Did argentina team flop after maradona left? What about before maradona? Wasnt they WC champions before maradona in 1978? Didnt maradona flop in 1982 WC? And why maradona never won copa america If he was carrying the team?

by futbol Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:44 pm

Here is a great video highlight of Diego's tournament:

by ahmad25 Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:56 pm

Here is the both players performance in the WC final. I dont get how maradona played better than messi? I would even say messi looks better player than maradona.much faster and better dribbler

Put this messi in 86 final and he would make more impact than maradona

by Valkyrja Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:43 pm

Of course a footballer in 1986 is slower than one in 2014. It's not about who is faster or about who is a better dribbler. It's about the impact the player has on his team, and Maradona in 86 was as close to a one man team as it could get

by Bankz Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:36 am

Valkyrja wrote:Of course a footballer in 1986 is slower than one in 2014. It's not about who is faster or about who is a better dribbler. It's about the impact the player has on his team, and Maradona in 86 was as close to a one man team as it could get

by DuringTheWar Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:37 am

Not going to argue over 90% of what's been written in this thread. Two points looked odd that I'll adress.

1. " The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final, won CA91 without him"

Two outfield players participated in both tournaments. Actually using the word "same"..... Sigh

2. "The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final"

Maradona was the only outfield argentina player in the WC90 "team of the tournament. Deary me.

by Doc Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:26 am

Two 9 minute videos is gonna properly and objectively analyse what took place during 90 and close to 120 minutes respectively?!

by M99 Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:57 am

DuringTheWar wrote:Not going to argue over 90% of what's been written in this thread. Two points looked odd that I'll adress.

1. " The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final, won CA91 without him"

Two outfield players participated in both tournaments. Actually using the word "same"..... Sigh

2. "The same argentina that carried Maradona to WC90 final"

Maradona was the only outfield argentina player in the WC90 "team of the tournament. Deary me.

According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.

by Harmonica Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:12 am

M99 wrote:According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.

According this post, M99 can't comprehend.

Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.

by Harmonica Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:14 am

Harmonica wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:On subject I think taking Napoli to their only two Serie A titles in history is far more impressive than the WC, but those individual moments are all anyone hears about. They fit the narrative, the myth that surrounds him painting him as a lone gunslinger that took down eleven other players with no help from his teammates at all.
Maradona at Napoli is a myth, there's nothing that impressive about it. It's basically the exact same as Aguero winning league with today's ManC.

Napoli was the highest spending team in Europe at Maradona's time. Napoli transfered in 7 players in 84-85 season including Bagni and Maradona, 7 players in 85-86 season including Renica and Giordano, 7 players in 86-87 including Sola, De Napoli, Volpecina, Muro and Carnevale, who then were the foundation of Napoli. Almost all players bought after 1983-84. Gazetta ratings for first Scudetto 86-87 with this team:

ManC before spending spree league position
15 - 14 - 9 - 10, after 5 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 1
Napoli before spending spree and Maradona league position
3 - 4 - 9 - 11, after 8 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 2

The similarity on those 7 last seasons is uncanny.

Furthermore Napoli of 86-87 had 4 nt-team regulars Bagni, Ferrara and De Napoli + Maradona. Bagni, Maradona and De Napoli all bought after 83-84. The same as Juventus in 86-87, Scirea, Cabrini, Platini and Laudrup. The same as Milan 86-87, Baresi, Donadoni, Wilkins and Hateley. Napoli at that time wasn't Sevilla or Valencia of today in relation, it was ManC of today. This was because the player restrictions compared to today, where most teams had one star player and couple NT-regulars.

Barrilete care to comment?

by Bankz Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:23 pm

Harmonica wrote:
M99 wrote:According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.
According this post, M99 can't comprehend.

Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.

Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city? :facepalm:

Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?
:facepalm:

by Harmonica Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:31 pm

Bankz wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
M99 wrote:According to this thread, Maradona is on level with Aguero.
According this post, M99 can't comprehend.

Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.

Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city?
Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?

Napoli never won European Cup, they got thumbed exactly the same way as ManC. First and second round.

Napoli had 4 NT-regulars, the same as top teams in the league at the time. That's exact same relation as ManC has with top teams today.

What can't you comprehend?

by Robespierre Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:33 pm

I' ve doubts Ferrara and Bagni were better than Maradona Laughing

Bianchi expecially ... typical Average manager carried by great players
Anyway there is a way to enlarge this pic ? There is a biggest than this ? I 'm Italian so I am curious to read the motivations and I can translate it.

by Robespierre Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:34 pm

Harmonica wrote:
Bankz wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
According this post, M99 can't comprehend.

Nobody said Maradona is on level of Aguero, his achievement in Napoli is on level of Aguero in ManC.

Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city?
Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?
Napoli never won European Cup, they got thumbed exactly the same way as ManC. First and second round.

Napoli had 4 NT-regulars, the same as top teams in the league at the time. That's exact same relation as ManC has with top teams today.

What can't you comprehend?

Napoli won Uefa Cup '89 , at that time it was much better than actual Europa League and maybe even more competitive than CL , considering it was played by 2nd 3rd 4th of every league, while CL was just for the 1st

It was another football for so many things ,also for this reason it's so difficult to compare players of different eras

by Harmonica Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:40 pm

Robespierre wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Bankz wrote:

Maradonas achievement is on level with that of aguero's achievement with man city?
Winning the league as the undisputed star of the league and in the world?
Winning with freaking Napoli in the best league In the world, with all the best players playing there at the time is thesame as winning the PL with man city?
Winning an European cup with Napoli is same with what aguero's done in Europe with man city?
Napoli never won European Cup, they got thumbed exactly the same way as ManC. First and second round.

Napoli had 4 NT-regulars, the same as top teams in the league at the time. That's exact same relation as ManC has with top teams today.

What can't you comprehend?

Napoli won Uefa Cup '89 , at that time it was much better than actual Europa League and maybe even more competitive than CL , considering it was played by 2nd 3rd 4th of every league, while CL was just for the 1st

It was another football for so many things ,also for this reason it's so difficult to compare players of different era

Uefa Cup/Europa League is a minor tournament. If it was more competitive Napoli would have won European Cup, but being more competitive doesn't mean much, the whole Algerian league was inside few points in last match day. What it means that you're big fish among small fishes, rather than big fish among big fishes.

by Harmonica Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:59 pm

Robespierre wrote:I' ve doubts Ferrara and Bagni were better than Maradona
Bianchi expecially ... typical Average manager carried by great players
Anyway there is a way to enlarge this pic ? There is a biggest than this ? I 'm Italian so I am curious to read the motivations and I can translate it.

Spoiler:

by titosantill Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:24 pm

last time i'm posting on here, but once again none of those players where world beaters by any stretch of the imagination, the best signing they brought in (besides diego) was careca, and he wouldn't have walked into the line up of any of the rival teams...toure, silva, tevez, kompany, and joe hart could have strolled into any of the other top epl teams (maybe except for kompany and joe hart getting into united). and aguero was lured to city, he came into a team that had won an fa cup and gotten third spot, so the mentality was growing. no matter how one spins it you can't compare that to joining a side that was a point off relegation the year before like napoli was. just because you buy a bunch of players from mid to low level sides doesn't equate to much....romano for example was at milan when they were in serie b, prior to moving to napoli, and some guys were even playing serie c football prior to signing for napoli. and btw besides diego and bagni, the guys who were internationals, got called up after napoli's exploits and not before diego got signed....you take maradona out of that team, they would have done zilch in domestic competition and the uefa cup, they would never get past 9th. once again, i'm not suggesting guys need to go and play for west ham to prove a point, pele nor di stefano nor ronaldo (phenomeno) didn't play for small sides, and regardless of what one says, their greatness shouldn't be questioned. i know people like to suggest pele played against mechanics, barbers and farmers...smh. these people have retired ages ago, and were good promoters of the sport, let them be, and let's enjoy the present......(benitez and florentino better not put on a laurel and hardy type act, like we saw last season or there will be little to enjoy once again)

by Robespierre Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:26 pm

thanks Haromica .

translated :

Surely decisive, as always in every victory. He scored decisive and amazing goals.It is enough his presence in pitch to create restlessness to opponent defences. But about the general performance he can't be ranked as first among Napoli players.

Well , a curious interpretation Laughing

It's first time I read / listen a similar thing.

by futbol Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:31 pm

Since when did random magazine ratings have any credibility? According to Marca, Cristiano was the best player in La Liga the past 3 seasons in a row. Messi behind Diego Costa last season. I guess someone will quote that in 30 years to make a point how Messi wasn't all that. Laughing

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