I was going thru my VHS tapes (pre-DVD for those who don't know what it is) of games from the 1980s and i came across a Juve-Napoli game from the 1986-1987 season where Napoli won 3-1.

My hate must have blinded me because, my freakin lord, was Maradonna a god or what. He had crap playing with him that year. Careca wasn't there yet. I mean go here and check out the roster http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societ%C3%A0_Sportiva_Calcio_Napoli_1986-1987

He literally had 2 or 3 guys that you would consider good on that team other than Diego. But he was so dominant that he opened up the whole pitch for everyone. Milan and Juve were stacked back then too. But nobody could take the ball from him.... it was truly incredible.

Napoli somehow won Serie A that year. To put it in perspective, it would be like Malaga beating Barca and Madrid for La Liga this year.

Argentina NT in 1986 was pretty meh too other than him, Burruchaga and Valdano. The other guys.... nothing special. Yet he managed to raise them to the WC crown. The draw Argentina got was favorable... but they still had to beat England and Germany. Enzo Scifo's Belgium was no joke either.

It made me reconsider how i rate Diego... and it also made me think about how he managed to win despite not having a whole squad of WC players around him.

Complete goat. Just played at another level that year.

Change the thread title to 'Maradona'. After all, all you wrote is about Diego.

On the other hand,Messi against Italian opposition.

Expect somebody to bite

Whats a VHS?

silver wrote:Whats a VHS?

"Argentina NT in 1986 was pretty meh too other than him, Burruchaga and Valdano. The other guys.... nothing special."

Brown, Ruggeri and Battista were all pretty good. Bochini and Passarella (while both old at that point and didn't feature for many minutes) are both legends.

silver wrote:Whats a VHS?

Its in the first sentence, its a pre dvd.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:"Argentina NT in 1986 was pretty meh too other than him, Burruchaga and Valdano. The other guys.... nothing special."

Brown, Ruggeri and Battista were all pretty good. Bochini and Passarella (while both old at that point and didn't feature for many minutes) are both legends.

They were good, not great... and as you said, Bochini and Passarella were past it although legends. But we're not talking about a legendary group or anything. I mean look at Italy 82, Germany 90, Brazil 94, etc. All those teams had multiple WC players... This Argentina team had only 1: Diego.

By saying that they were all "pretty meh" i took that to mean mediocre, which they were clearly not.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:By saying that they were all "pretty meh" i took that to mean mediocre, which they were clearly not.

I meant it in comparison to other WC winning squads or even WC finalists... it was a very meh team. Granted, the "hand of god" goal saved Argentina against England probably... but still.

I was going to mention that after the Milan-Barca game, and the difference between between Maradona and Messi, and why I rate Maradona 3 levels above of Messi, Maradona had to deal with Italian defense week in week out, and almost never failed to open them, and that was even when the league was much tougher than the current one.

When you can open a defense made of Baresi, Maldini, Tasotti, Costacurta, supported by a badass midfield, thats something you an be proud of, not failing against Zapata, Mexes, Abate, and a make up left back, with Ambrosini and Muntari to support.

I hope ppl finally see the difference and realize that Maradona is the best to ever play this beautiful game.... not even up for debate.

Do I need to mention he had to deal with the nastiest offside rule.

BTW Sportyz I know what VHS tape are, I have complete seasons of the Serie A on VHS, I was just playing with you the other day.

Lol I know what a VHS is. I was being facetious. Did you really think someone wouldn't know what a VHS was that you had to put a description in your post?

just watch youtube videos of maradona, you will see that he was on another level than messi.

viepr149 wrote:just watch youtube videos of maradona, you will see that he was on another level than messi.

So basically the best player ever ?? Because Messi is already at a high high level.

Maradonna like Jordan for example is not only a great player but also an icon . Messi is more like Lebron james

Maradona single-handedly winning with Napoli is such a myth. He was the best player but he had a great team. For the reference lets compare Maradona's second Serie-A winning campaing 89-90, which from I've the assist data.

Maradona 89-90 16+16=32 goals directly involved from 57, which gave Napoli 20 points from 51 overall. ->56% goals involved, 39% points given

Messi 11-12 50+21=71 goals directly involved from 114, which gave Barcelona 35 points from 91 overall -> 62% goals involved, 38% points given

Messi 12-13 38+11=49 goals directly involved from 82 overall, which gave Barcelona 31 points from 68 overall -> 60% goals involved, 46% points given

He wasn't carrying Napoli as much as Messi has been carrying Barca last year and a half.

Surag wrote:On the other hand,Messi against Italian opposition.

Expect somebody to bite

Im going to bite. Messi was brilliant against Milan in the 2-2 draw at the camp nou last year and 3-2 at the san siro..

baresi wrote:I was going to mention that after the Milan-Barca game, and the difference between between Maradona and Messi, and why I rate Maradona 3 levels above of Messi, Maradona had to deal with Italian defense week in week out, and almost never failed to open them, and that was even when the league was much tougher than the current one.

When you can open a defense made of Baresi, Maldini, Tasotti, Costacurta, supported by a badass midfield, thats something you an be proud of, not failing against Zapata, Mexes, Abate, and a make up left back, with Ambrosini and Muntari to support.

I hope ppl finally see the difference and realize that Maradona is the best to ever play this beautiful game.... not even up for debate.

Do I need to mention he had to deal with the nastiest offside rule.

A question, did Maradona have to face a team's that had 10 defenders week in week out like Messi has to face?

Oh and also, its not like the defence in those times were perfect 100% of every game either. Just look at this video with the abysmal defending by, what most would say, is the greatest club side ever!



Awful, just awful defending...

Bénin wrote:

viepr149 wrote:just watch youtube videos of maradona, you will see that he was on another level than messi.

So basically the best player ever ?? Because Messi is already at a high high level.

Maradonna like Jordan for example is not only a great player but also an icon . Messi is more like Lebron james

Yea i would agree with that. Good comparison.

harhar11 wrote:

baresi wrote:I was going to mention that after the Milan-Barca game, and the difference between between Maradona and Messi, and why I rate Maradona 3 levels above of Messi, Maradona had to deal with Italian defense week in week out, and almost never failed to open them, and that was even when the league was much tougher than the current one.

When you can open a defense made of Baresi, Maldini, Tasotti, Costacurta, supported by a badass midfield, thats something you an be proud of, not failing against Zapata, Mexes, Abate, and a make up left back, with Ambrosini and Muntari to support.

I hope ppl finally see the difference and realize that Maradona is the best to ever play this beautiful game.... not even up for debate.

Do I need to mention he had to deal with the nastiest offside rule.

A question, did Maradona have to face a team's that had 10 defenders week in week out like Messi has to face?

Oh and also, its not like the defence in those times were perfect 100% of every game either. Just look at this video with the abysmal defending by, what most would say, is the greatest club side ever!



Awful, just awful defending...

I hope you realize you picked one of the most controversial clashes between the two sides, the first goal was a 100% offside back then, and apart from that I don't see and whack defense the second was brilliant moment from Maradona the way he rose and took the ball before Baresi, the third and fourth wonderful counters jet as the book suggests.

And Hormonica providing stats that prove that Maradona is much better, the stats are pretty close and favor Messi slightly, but apply the offside rule back then on todays game and lets look at those stats again.

Are we actually debating who was better as an individual player?

Agree with Benin comparison, perfect.

Yeah, Messi is "carrying" a team with 9 World Cup winners in the starting XI like Maradona carried Napoli. Just because the management got rid of every other goalscorer and channelled their whole attack through Messi in the past 2 seasons so that either Messi scores or no one scores doesn't mean that Messi is carrying Barcelona. Use your brain, not some made up numbers which suit your agenda, fss.

baresi wrote:And Hormonica providing stats that prove that Maradona is much better, the stats are pretty close and favor Messi slightly, but apply the offside rule back then on todays game and lets look at those stats again.

Yes, because offside rules only affected Maradona's side.

Platini said this after France won Euro 2000: "Zidane does some extraordinary things, it's true. But you have to put everything in context. What Zidane does with a ball, Maradona could do with an orange."

Harmonica wrote:

baresi wrote:And Hormonica providing stats that prove that Maradona is much better, the stats are pretty close and favor Messi slightly, but apply the offside rule back then on todays game and lets look at those stats again.

Yes, because offside rules only affected Maradona's side.

ohhh god

Let him be Baresi... he's not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to footy obviously.