Last night's finale was terrible. Actually, I take that back - this entire season has been an absolute disaster for the series. People were mad after the Red Wedding but not only was last night hard to take, but they didn't show what happened; they just rushed through everything with cop-out "cliff-hangers" even though they had built them up all season. It was terrible storytelling. They just minimized storylines that they couldn't be arsed with purely so they could quickly kill off characters that they didn't like in order to devote more time to those that I personally don't giving a flying feck about, such as Cersei and Dany.

For example, where are the Greyjoys?? And Stannis? They have taken a character with depth and IMO the best storyline currently going on in the series and minimized his entire military campaign to the point that he comes across as a pure-evil villain, who accepts failure passively and couldn't lead a successful takeover of a school playground let alone Westeros. He went from a contender for the throne to a laughing stock who goes out without a wimper in 5 minutes last night. He pretty much has to still be alive at least, or that is hands down the worst cop-out ending to a character's arc that they ever could have come up with.

What I'm HOPING happens is him and Brienne run into Sansa and Theon, go back to Castle Black to revive Jon with a Theon sacrifice, and then somehow find a way to overcome the immense odds against them to save the day, perhaps by rallying the North around Sansa and Jon.

I understand that they could never capture a realistic representation of the series on TV in its entirety, but they absolutely strangled all that was good out of the content that was available to them throughout this season. Okay I'm done /endrant

To be honest I don't know about keeping Stannis alive. He has lost his family/army/friend and Melisandre. He has nothing in his life, it would be mercy if he's dead.

He will be the 1000th lord commander of the night's watch.

What I found most disappointing about this season was messing up the Northern arc. The politics, betrayals, battles, preparations, the Northerners, Freys, Reek's chapters, Asha, Davos, these were some great chapters of a rather dull book and it's sad that the replacement of that was a straight forward "battle" between Bolton/Baratheon which wasn't even seen on screen.

MANCE IS ALIVE

Good little shock there, I didn't expect this. At least this wasn't spoiled. Very glad, Mance is a goat character.

I was wondering how on earth Jon got his ass handed to him by Rattleshirt when they had the friendly fight.

RealGunner wrote:He will be the 1000th lord commander of the night's watch.

^this and

urbaNRoots wrote:What I found most disappointing about this season was messing up the Northern arc. The politics, betrayals, battles, preparations, the Northerners, Freys, Reek's chapters, Asha, Davos, these were some great chapters of a rather dull book and it's sad that the replacement of that was a straight forward "battle" between Bolton/Baratheon which wasn't even seen on screen.

this.

Though I'd say Dorne was just as disappointing.

Actually Stannis becoming Lord Commander sounds pretty cool.

But I think there will be no Nights Watch after the stabbing, Tormund will anhiliate them since they badly outnumber the Watch. After that, some time later the Wall will fall anyway and the NW will be useless.

You still bother comparing the two ? Changes and all ?

I won't lie , some of them i didn't like and some i thought could be done different/better/same with the books , some other changes i found difficult to understand why . But really ? GoT is still the best series you can watch on TV , easily . Probably one of the best series we will watch in our lifetime tbh. Changes and comparisons and what not , i am enjoying it and i am entertained by the vast majority of the show , so far .

I KNOW that if i had never read the books , i would have loved almost every second of it. I don't even think of what i would have preffered , i would obviously want the show following the books really closely like it all started , but in any case , it's still great , even with all the changes.

Again , there are stuff you and me and many others don't like / hate even , but i personaly made my peace with it months ago , still loving this show like i always have.

I am actually a little happy with all these changes tbh , often this season i was surprised and didn't know what to expect and it reminded me of the first 2 season i watched , in awe of each episode . I wasn't that amazed this season, but i was sure as hell enjoying it.

S5 didn't quite have the top of the line material previous ones did , but they still managed to present a great season , imho . Certainly not the best , but up there with the rest.

In the end , the story in the books remains the undisputed story to witness , which is all that matters. Show is purely out there to spoil us and for our joy really. I say try to enjoy it , without caring about the books and how it went/goes down there.

Best piece of advice i could give is , actually ask yourself if you would mind this or that , if you had never read the books. I think you wouldn't be nearly so judgemental and would actually enjoy it way more . I remembered how it used to be before reading the books and i must say , rarely i had any complains , how could i , what i was watching was simply phenomenal , even when i read the books and saw what was different in s2 , i still thought it was great really . Bare a few characteristic shit of s5 , i still think the same about this season as well , it really was great , despite the changes.

Idk Dante. Something tells me even if you did not read the books you would not love the bad pussy line.

And the power of twenty good men.

i did mention a few "characteristic stuff" from S5 that obviously don't quite cut it (but still , i think ever in doubt/disapoint , i think you can actually enjoy the show a lot more if you just flow with it)

look what i found on r/gameofthrones

loooooooooooooool

http://www.gfycat.com/RegalDirtyIguanodon

Lightbringer theory, Azor Ahai is Osha, R+L=J, Benjin is Daario, Daario is also Jeyne Poole, Viserys warged into Drogon before he died (which explains why he doenst listen to Alves), the High Septa is not a High Septa, Rickon and Osha are dead. Rhllor is actually a face of the many-faced god, also Gendry reaches shore.

Am i doing this right

That part about Gendry is stupid. Why would he ever reach anything?
Apart from that you're doing alright.

Have you already figured out that Ned = Jaqen?

I like how that little shit got such power in the space of a season

Kills Ygritte, becomes LC's ward, finishes Jon.

Maybe he is going to replace Aegon

ES

dat entrance into the unholy book thread

also Varys being a merman , or whatever the f that theory was supposed to be

Varys is a woman and Aegon is the son of her and Illyrio.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/21jqwr/varys_is_not_who_he_seems_spoilers_all/

LMAO

Dante wrote:Best piece of advice i could give is , actually ask yourself if you would mind this or that , if you had never read the books. I think you wouldn't be nearly so judgemental and would actually enjoy it way more . I remembered how it used to be before reading the books and i must say , rarely i had any complains , how could i , what i was watching was simply phenomenal , even when i read the books and saw what was different in s2 , i still thought it was great really . Bare a few characteristic shit of s5 , i still think the same about this season as well , it really was great , despite the changes.

I know several people who have not read the books and whom are debating not watching the series anymore after last night's episode because they don't see how it could possibly rebound from what happened in a positive way. So many of the best characters were (at least seemingly) killed off.

You have a point that I wouldn't be so upset if I just watched the show, maybe I wouldn't be predisposed to hating Dany for example and would actually like when they spend 30 minutes each episode on her, but it's not so much that they changed what happens as it is that they did so in a way that is much less exciting than what they could have done and were expected to do.

last part i can understand and i also wish they would do so , in some cases at least. Does that make me quit , or hate on this and that?? It doesn't. Stannis changes were pretty unexpected and drastic , got me by surprise , but yeah , i accept them as they come . I was dissapointed with the way Stannis got crushed in the show tbh..

It's the TV show of the story. What i SEE is great , not perfect by any means , not without plot holes and dumbing down characters , not without some ridiculous plot armors some times.. (see Ramsay) but it makes a great spectacle really and we need to come to terms with it.

In the end , i do get you despite raising a point here. I am glad for the books and how superb the story and characters are in it. I wish the show followed like it did in the beginning , but by not doing so , it doesn't make a bad spectacle , it's just like you said , it's not the best it could be.

It's kind of a shame when you think they could have went without many unecessary stuff and thus follow the books closer , however the end result isn't bad , or mediocre , or dissapointing in it's core , by any stretch of the imagination .

D&D ... they should seriously take special care of how they will write the characters from now on and improve the build up to things. That's a complain anyone can have , shownly or readers. Other than that , the way and the roads they take to tell the story ; that isn't a problem in the show.

But defo agreed on certain points you raised about the show and perhaps i shouldn't really generalise with the notion about having not read the books and how better the show would have been. Although it's mostly true , the essence of it remains as you pointed out , quality can be translated and shit are always going to be shit despite the amount of info .

In any case. As far as i am concerned , i enjoyed myself and felt entertained , obviously there were cases i didn't like and wished were different. I am willing to live with it all because this show has quality and i know if i let myself fully take this road of nit-picking and objecting to this and that all the time , well i won't enjoy it anymore , but will continue to watch because it would still be worth it , it will kinda be like torturing myself if i allow this.

So yeah , i accept it with all the flaws , embrace it's strong qualities and take my ASOIAF fix basically , , eagerly and quietly anticipating TWOW. That's where i will really massively care about everything. Again , GoT is out there to spoil us , that's how i see it anyway , not going to bother hard on it. It's eye-candy and it's on a big scale , i can live with the inaccuracies and some bs here and there , hopefully things improve to make this show even bigger next season. Not holding my breath , but it's only so long they can keep Ramsay fkn shit up and actually people stop getting 'shocked' .

They will have to write it better as it goes on , or face the consequences .

McLewis wrote:My Roman history is showing here, but I very much likened that Jon Snow scene to how it must've been for Julius Caesar. Went almost exactly the same way....although they surrounded him and stabbed him instead of just taking turns like these guys did. I'm sure GRRM found some inspiration from the Ides of March for that scene. I won't be convinced otherwise

People have been calling it the Ides of Marsh for a reason

I'm upset we didn't get to see Varys kill the Hand but it would've been kinda random seeing as how they didn't build him up to be very competent.

Also Myrcella dying? It was so obvious. Long kiss on the lips. Scene where Jaime admits to being his father to get the most emotional response out of us. She dies. That was some Walking Dead level shit writing.

Boat doesn't turn around to reveal this to the Martells at all.

Sadly, i've been spoiled by a bunch of twats on what was going to happen this season (and next season) a while ago, so i don't mind reading the spoilers now.

I haven't read past book 2 (i cba to continue), so i can't join in discussion, but i'll survey from time to time

Dante wrote:ES

dat entrance into the unholy book thread

also Varys being a merman , or whatever the f that theory was supposed to be

Varys is a woman and Aegon is the son of her and Illyrio.

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/21jqwr/varys_is_not_who_he_seems_spoilers_all/

LMAO

OMG, what the hell

U were spoiled this hard?? damn.

CBA?? u wot m8 ?? now that the show is there and you've been spoiled , the only way to cleanse it all is to read the books tbh .

nah i know how it is , i remember having watched the first 2 seasons and then reading the first 2 books , knowing what happens. Well , it was still a great read but without the big excitement the rest had for me

but really , you should do yourself the favour and read the books , especially now that the show is almost on the same page

you will read about soooo many things you wouldn't otherwise know . Especially the last 2 books , both will feel entirely new to you , you can only take my word for it , but from what i've seen from the show , well the books should still feel very very fresh if you decide to read them .

And not reading ASOS is a crime really. It's one of the best books you will ever read , at least with regards to the fantasy genre. Very strong read , ASOS.

anyway , theories are never ending really , but like someone said some are as good as spoilers so take care . I have a theory that Daenerys , Jon and Aegon are all Rhaegar's children really , though i still can't connect half the dots

I'll try to force myself to trudge through the books, but atm i'm currently occupied with Malazan, and the scope of that series doesn't allow me to put it down and pick it up again later

btw, is Bolt-On theory's claim legitimate or is it just a troll theory? This guy is taking it seriously

yeah i get it

btw , i can't wait to begin Malazan one of these days.. It's just that the book i was reading , Prince of Fools , it started so strong , drags you in.. and the act 3 of the book was so boring .. i am one of those people who just has to finish the story no matter how bad i find it , i can't just leave it aside and i am forcing myself to finish it as soon as possible to get down with Malazan

In any case . The books ain't going anywhere , you could read them whenever . But really , if i am to judge of my experience with the asoiaf books , well then , when you finish Malazan .. you will need to read something like that again , maybe now you don't feel like it , but give it time

El Shaarawy wrote:btw, is Bolt-On theory's claim legitimate or is it just a troll theory? This guy is taking it seriously

nah proper tinfoil

personally i'd have an easier time believing Daario Naharis is Euron than this tbh

ES read the damn books or I'll ban you.

That being said, started Malazan and it is incredible so you are permitted to finish that series first.

Dost, you will not be disappointed

A Storm Of Swords is better than all Malazan books. There I said it.