honda in Japanese media interview about his verdict on last season performance with just 1 goal in 14 app, "If the performance of mine repeats like this in next season, I am better off quitting football"

Andrew_p wrote:

Forza wrote:Totti has every right to complain. Juve fans have to accept the fact that their club is going to have a bad reputation because of its past cheating until everyone forgets about said cheating - which will be never. So deal with it.

How can you be so confident that people will never forget ?

I mean very few still remember or even know that Milan got relegated back in the 80's due to Totonero scandal

Time heals my friend

I love how people always bring up Totonero without having a single clue what's it about.

Totonero was a BETTING scandal not a scandal to fix matches to favor Milan. Only two people were involved in the scandal, Milan's goalkeeper and president which involved only ONE match, a 1-1 draw.

M99 wrote:

Andrew_p wrote:

Forza wrote:Totti has every right to complain. Juve fans have to accept the fact that their club is going to have a bad reputation because of its past cheating until everyone forgets about said cheating - which will be never. So deal with it.

How can you be so confident that people will never forget ?

I mean very few still remember or even know that Milan got relegated back in the 80's due to Totonero scandal

Time heals my friend

I love how people always bring up Totonero without having a single clue what's it about.

Totonero was a BETTING scandal not a scandal to fix matches to favor Milan. Only two people were involved in the scandal, Milan's goalkeeper and president which involved only ONE match, a 1-1 draw.

Giorgio Morini, Stefano Chiodi, Enrico Albertosi, as well as Colombo, who was banned for life, were involved, and Milan were relegated to Serie B.
its technically not match fixing, but then again, neither is having favorable refs officiate your game.

And in the end, half of Serie A, including Milan and Inter were dirty in calciopoli.

juventus are a disgusting club.

more proof that serie a is a corrupt piece of shit league run by agnelli.

SOLO RUBARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-25 % trolling

Chill guys. It was a badly refereed match for both sides, even if one side got the worst end if the stick. Unfortunately referees are human and make human mistakes.

Comments claiming that any side paid the ref or foxed the match shall be treated as trolling.

Rossonero23 wrote:juventus are a disgusting club.

more proof that serie a is a corrupt piece of shit league run by agnelli.

SOLO RUBARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

damn I thought you died ages ago

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

dronte wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Neither of the penalties were penalties and in any case the only reason the ref gave the first one was he succumbed to the pressure of the Juve players to change his mind.

Which is a bigger issue than whether it's a penalty or not, the mere fact he wasn't going to give it and did so after the Juve players surrounded him.

Actually, no. It was his assistant calling it, but it did look like the players had him change his mind.

So that's a silly statement to make really, it's the last thing a ref would ever do.

Except he did, it's clear as day that the pressure forced him to change his mind.

It's the last thing a ref should do but he did and it shows his incompetence.

and it was a clear penalty as well so not sure what point you are trying to make moal, keita touched the ball in the box with his hand......

M99 wrote:

Andrew_p wrote:

Forza wrote:Totti has every right to complain. Juve fans have to accept the fact that their club is going to have a bad reputation because of its past cheating until everyone forgets about said cheating - which will be never. So deal with it.

and yet Calciopoli did involve the whole Juve, its fans plus my grandmother no?

and I love how Milan fans love to dodge the Calciopoli bullet like they were not involved but only saved by their corrupt mafia president (but keep on coming and saying Juve arranged more when nothing has been proven yet) Juve actually agreed to the sentence so the league wouldn't suffer a hold up....

but since you only started watching Serie A after 2007 keep up with the ignorance....

How can you be so confident that people will never forget ?

I mean very few still remember or even know that Milan got relegated back in the 80's due to Totonero scandal

Time heals my friend

I love how people always bring up Totonero without having a single clue what's it about.

Totonero was a BETTING scandal not a scandal to fix matches to favor Milan. Only two people were involved in the scandal, Milan's goalkeeper and president which involved only ONE match, a 1-1 draw.

and Calciopoli involved the whole Juve its fans plus my grannie?

I love how Milan fans are quick to distance themselves from Calciopoli due to being saved by their mafia lord president...

and for your information Juve only agreed to the sentence to not hold up the league as any continued court battle would have rendered the league inactive...

but since you only started serie A after 2007 keep up with the ignorance....

Rossonero23 wrote:juventus are a disgusting club.

more proof that serie a is a corrupt piece of shit league run by agnelli.

SOLO RUBARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-25 % trolling

bye bye roso, your consistent tears from the unending Juve wins shall be missed.....

Italy's politicians join the fray after bitter Juve-Roma clash

ROME, Oct 6 (Reuters) - Italian politicians from right and left fuelled controversy following Sunday's fiery Serie A encounter between Juventus and AS Roma, with lower house deputies tabling questions in parliament and even complaining to the stock market regulator.
Hosts Juventus won the top-of-the-table clash 3-2 but all three goals by the reigning champions, including two penalties for infringements on the edge of the box, were fiercely contested by the visitors.
Rome-based sports daily Corriere dello Sport ran a banner headline on Monday saying "A rigged championship", while the capital's main newspaper Il Messaggero took aim at referee Gianluca Rocchi with the headline "Rocchi 3-Roma 2."
Marco Miccoli, a deputy from Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's Democratic Party, said on Monday he had asked bourse watchdog Consob to investigate whether the "incredible refereeing errors" could constitute an infringement of its rules.
Both Juventus and Roma are listed on the stock market. At 1415 GMT on Monday, Juve's shares were up 0.8 percent, while Roma's were down 2.7 percent.
Miccoli said Rocchi's refereeing had "distorted the championship and undermined the credibility of the country" and was "absolutely unimaginable in any other part of the civilised world."
Post-match analysis in Italian media tends to focus obsessively on refereeing decisions which are pored over with countless slow motion replays.
Freeze-frame television images showed Juve's two penalty episodes may have been a couple of centimetres outside the area. Roma also lamented that Arturo Vidal was offside when defender Leonardo Bonucci fired home a spectacular late winner.
On the other side of the political divide, Fabio Rampelli of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, tabled a parliamentary question to Economy Minister Pier Carlo Padoan, over the "two non-existent penalties and an offside goal."
He called on Padoan, a well-known Roma supporter, to ensure no taxpayer money were used - for example in policing costs - to fund a championship that risked being unfair.
Rampelli said Rocchi's performance could also have "incalculable consequences" for crowd violence. Ugly clashes between rival fans have marred the Italian game in recent years, most recently when a Napoli fan was shot dead by a Roma supporter before last season's Italian Cup final.

_______________________________________________________________________

Now TG5 , the most  popular television news with TG1 ( TG5 is the tv news of Canale 5) began to talk as first thing about the importance of instant replay in football .

not politics, economics, Renzi or Berluisconi , the first news on TG5 was the instant replay for Juve-Roma

Italy

" Italians lose wars as if they were football matches, and football matches as if they were wars"  ( Sir Winston Chrchill)

They wonder why Serie A rep is down the motherf*cking gutter... maybe because they never leave things alone

Reff has a shit game, gives some dodgey penalties and a red card to a player for getting assaulted, now there's a *bleep* national *bleep* crisis

Wtf am I reading

roma vs juve is turning into a bitter rivalry a la inter vs juve

farfan wrote:roma vs juve is turning into a bitter rivalry a la inter vs juve

plss its now the original derby d'italia, milan and inter can have the derby della mid-table ffs...

in Italy these things are not so strange.. we care always so much about polemics , instant replay etc and okay, you can't change the culture and I would be pissed off as Romanisti too ... but the politicans should think to the serious things, not to football , expecially in a country in crisis as Italy ffs  It's really ridicolous lol
The Romanisti politicans are not new to ask parlamentary questions for football ,it's not first time, but anyway they are not the only to do it .. .I remind also for Juve-Inter 1998 (that  Iuliano tackle on Ronaldo) , questions in parliament for this refereeing and television news to begin with this news
I was child but I remind because it was my first league followed well
but it was a crucial match for scudetto of 31th matchday on  34 , here we are just to 5th matchday and the climate is already so hot.
I don't dare to image what it will be in last matchdays if Juve and Roma will fight point for point .......

@faran
Juve-Roma is always been a bitter rivalry very felt tbf, it began in 80's with Scudettos battle  and in 90's it was a REAL  war . Since pre match with digs to ... matches.
This also because Roma had Zeman as manager , the most hated manager by juve fans
In recent years it was just a bit dormant, it is simply re-emerged now.
After Lazio it is basically the most felt rivalry by Roma fans

Zeman: "Juve have 23 titles"

Rossonero23 wrote:juventus are a disgusting club.

more proof that serie a is a corrupt piece of shit league run by agnelli.

SOLO RUBARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-25 % trolling

Ah, nothing beats the smell of banning perennial troll Rossonero23. Thanks guys.

I love how people/media are acting like Juve actually are bribing the refs.......... if we win this title i have no doubt that some crazy people will call for a relegation

Honestly, if someone actually thinks we bribed the ref for this game and have bribed them for the past three years, then you are in serious need of mental aid. Did everyone forget the years of mediocrity after calciopoli where Juve was trash? We got NO calls in our favor and couldnt even come close to winning a title. Now all of a sudden once we become successful and dominate Italy for three years you get people/media/players (Ex. Totti) whining about all the years of (apparent) injustice, saying we run the league or that we are shaming Italian football. It's damn embarassing that Juventus players and fans have to deal with this bullshit. We suffered enough with losing two titles, an elite European team, and our teams credibility. Now once we finally return to success we are all of a sudden cheaters again?

Seriously, stop whining and accept the damn loss. The ref was shit, as acknowledged by everyone and move on to the next game instead of clinging on to this game like a crazy teenage boyfriend/girlfriend who wont accept the fact that they aren't in a relationship anymore..........

Robespierre wrote:Italy's politicians join the fray after bitter Juve-Roma clash

ROME, Oct 6 (Reuters) - Italian politicians from right and left fuelled controversy following Sunday's fiery Serie A encounter between Juventus and AS Roma, with lower house deputies tabling questions in parliament and even complaining to the stock market regulator.
Hosts Juventus won the top-of-the-table clash 3-2 but all three goals by the reigning champions, including two penalties for infringements on the edge of the box, were fiercely contested by the visitors.
Rome-based sports daily Corriere dello Sport ran a banner headline on Monday saying "A rigged championship", while the capital's main newspaper Il Messaggero took aim at referee Gianluca Rocchi with the headline "Rocchi 3-Roma 2."
Marco Miccoli, a deputy from Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's Democratic Party, said on Monday he had asked bourse watchdog Consob to investigate whether the "incredible refereeing errors" could constitute an infringement of its rules.
Both Juventus and Roma are listed on the stock market. At 1415 GMT on Monday, Juve's shares were up 0.8 percent, while Roma's were down 2.7 percent.
Miccoli said Rocchi's refereeing had "distorted the championship and undermined the credibility of the country" and was "absolutely unimaginable in any other part of the civilised world."
Post-match analysis in Italian media tends to focus obsessively on refereeing decisions which are pored over with countless slow motion replays.
Freeze-frame television images showed Juve's two penalty episodes may have been a couple of centimetres outside the area. Roma also lamented that Arturo Vidal was offside when defender Leonardo Bonucci fired home a spectacular late winner.
On the other side of the political divide, Fabio Rampelli of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, tabled a parliamentary question to Economy Minister Pier Carlo Padoan, over the "two non-existent penalties and an offside goal."
He called on Padoan, a well-known Roma supporter, to ensure no taxpayer money were used - for example in policing costs - to fund a championship that risked being unfair.
Rampelli said Rocchi's performance could also have "incalculable consequences" for crowd violence. Ugly clashes between rival fans have marred the Italian game in recent years, most recently when a Napoli fan was shot dead by a Roma supporter before last season's Italian Cup final.

_______________________________________________________________________

Now TG5 , the most  popular television news with TG1 ( TG5 is the tv news of Canale 5) began to talk as first thing about the importance of instant replay in football .

not politics, economics, Renzi or Berluisconi , the first news on TG5 was the instant replay for Juve-Roma

Italy

" Italians lose wars as if they were football matches, and football matches as if they were wars"  ( Sir Winston Chrchill)

Italy

elm_baraja_shaman wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

dronte wrote:

Actually, no. It was his assistant calling it, but it did look like the players had him change his mind.

So that's a silly statement to make really, it's the last thing a ref would ever do.

Except he did, it's clear as day that the pressure forced him to change his mind.

It's the last thing a ref should do but he did and it shows his incompetence.

and it was a clear penalty as well so not sure what point you are trying to make moal, keita touched the ball in the box with his hand......

1. it doesn't matter whether it was the right decision as that's not the point.

2. The point being a referee should never change his mind on the basis of being pressured by the players and that's what clearly happened. He didn't change his mind because of something he was told he changed his mind because of the pressure which he couldn't control.

3. It was Maicon

4. He clearly handled it outside the box as he jumped forward.

I'd like to summarise this debate in a concise, non-inflammatory and uncontroversial way. However, if you are in the unfortunate state of mind where you think that Calciopoli is a myth, you need not reply because you will undoubtedly take issue with what I have to say. I suggest you skip over this post.

~~~~~

1. There is no evidence that Juventus cheated against Roma. It appears that the referee just had an awful game.

2. Juventus fans need not get defensive when allegations of cheating are raised. Juventus fans who have watched Serie A for a while should be savvy enough to acknowledge that the past illegal actions of the club will inevitably cast doubt over future actions of the club.

3. The proper approach for the administrative bodies to take is, of course, to conduct investigations into all instances of suspected match-fixing or other cheating.

4. Football is not just a game, it's a business too. Refereeing decisions made as a result of corruption lose the game money and diminish its reputation. It's only prudent to investigate these occurrences.

5. "Leaving things alone" if "things" is actually "corruption" is not a good move because it encourages corruption. Just because a game is being investigated, does it mean that the clubs involved are guilty of match-fixing? No, of course not.

6. Illegal actions of clubs that were "left alone" for years are exactly what has caused significant damage to Serie A's reputation.

7. If investigations are conducted into a game and nothing is found, this doesn't diminish Serie A's reputation. On the contrary, it restores it.

8. Getting the highest level of politicians involved in investigations is overkill.

9. Past illegal activities by people and clubs will continue to haunt Serie A for some time because these activities undermined the very legitimacy of Italian football by manipulating the results of games.

10. Clubs involved in past scandals will continue to be under suspicion. Needless to say that clubs other than Juventus, including Milan, were involved in the Calciopoli scandal and were punished for their involvement. Calciopoli happened, deal with it.

11. We must recognise that Calciopoli itself started out as a conspiracy theory and then very quickly unravelled into something real. The shocking truth of Calciopoli only served to give encouragement the conspiracy theorists who were finally proven correct.

12. My final point is this: You can't stop people from making seemingly outlandish claims. My advice for Juve fans is to reply in a polite way with something like what I have written in point #1.

Except a vast majority of people who don't follow Serie A don't see an investigation that turns up ZERO evidence as 'restoring the reputation'

Ignorant people, of which there are many, see the fact that a game is being investigated and jump to their own conclusions no matter what the outcome is

If accusations of match fixing happen every time a reff in Italy has a bad game, the other nations are going to jump the gun worse than the local newspapers when forming an opinion about Serie A

I'm with Tom in terms of the average perception of the game. I do see Forza's point regarding the fact that proactive behaviour which seeks to wipe out irregularities from the game is admirable, something that one could argue is lacking in certain other leagues, however the lack of transparency involved in such investigations harms efforts to restore the reputation of the league. The common lack of regard for the reputation of investigative bodies also further undermines efforts and instances such as this which centre around sensationalism also undermine the legitimacy of valid investigations through the cultivation of the hysteria and mindset that Tom mentioned.

dostoevsky wrote:I'm with Tom in terms of the average perception of the game. I do see Forza's point regarding the fact that proactive behaviour which seeks to wipe out irregularities from the game is admirable, something that one could argue is lacking in certain other leagues, however the lack of transparency involved in such investigations harms efforts to restore the reputation of the league. The common lack of regard for the reputation of investigative bodies also further undermines efforts and instances such as this which centre around sensationalism also undermine the legitimacy of valid investigations through the cultivation of the hysteria and mindset that Tom mentioned.

could you say that in simple english??? i didnt understand a thing

Basically, Italy actually investigates footballing incidents regularly unlike other European leagues, despite the fact that they have also been suspected of infiltration by betting syndicates. So one can praise the authorities for actually trying to do something.

However, there is such poor communication between the authorities, media and public that the potential benefits are lost. Rather than being interpreted as a sign of an alert judiciary it's merely seen as evidence of high levels of corruption.

Hysterical journalism such as we are seeing currently only encourages perceptions within the foreign media and foreign fan bases that Italy's a mess.

dostoevsky wrote:
Hysterical journalism such as we are seeing currently only encourages perceptions within the foreign media and foreign fan bases that Italy's a mess.

Absolutely true. The only time foreign fans care about Italy when they can bash it for being "corrupted" and label it as a "cheater" league.

And that is partly down to the papers, but players, coaches and everyone play a huge part in it. Just check each of Roma's interviews after the match, disguisting, creating controversy one after another (let's note here that this kind of post match behaviour is true for most of Italy's teams including Juve)