teamanarchy wrote:

zizzle wrote:

teamanarchy wrote:
However, there is one basic truth. Real Madrid have no concerns when it comes to paying 80 ME for a player. The club is totally sound financially, and any objection to the sums spent on players stems from jealousy that your club cannot afford to spend that kind of money every summer.
Real Madrid's transfer budget is unprecedented and we don't need sugar daddy owners to sustain ourselves.
Modern football is about money and there is nobody out there that matches RM on those terms. Is it killing football in the sense of 'the love of the game' or whatever? Probably? Is Perez clueless when it comes to the game played on the pitch? Yes, he probably is. But football needs that team that we all love to hate...
And it just makes it even more sweeter when an underdog cash-strapped side triumphs...
Hell, I was actually quite happy that Atletico won la liga, because it was a victory for football.
If Real Madrid's existence bothers you so much, though, I suggest we create a "I hate Real Madrid" thread and just be straightforward with it, rather than sidestep the issue and try and disprove Real Madrid's fiscal stability... because that won't happen.

The shirt sales logic has been used to justify almost any expensive transfer (torres and Neymar to name just a couple) but i used James to Madrid as my primary example because he's the flavor of the months. Plus im pretty jealous of Madrid's success and wish that i was as handsome and successful as Ronaldo so u can see where i'm coming from

Now you're just being patronizing.

It's been a very difficult couple years for Inter.
But, yes, you're right, the shirt sales argument is frequently cited... It is often cited as a blanket argument for the rise in commercial value.
Thing is, if Tohir offered 150 ME for C.Ronaldo tomorrow and he moved to Inter... it would be a bargain, and you know it. How much do you think attendance figures would rise at San Siro... how many shirts would you sell? How many 17-to-40-year-old women would stop supporting Real Madrid and become Inter fans? A fair few, I'd say...
You cannot put a value on the commercial dividends of signings like this...

You bring a different argument all together. The low of diminishing returns will apply in this case and for a team like Real Madrid, adding just another star player will only result in a marginal increase. Now for a team like Inter, our roster has no stars and our most known player earned his fame by banging his friend's ex wife. A signing like Ronaldo will not only bring new fans and sponsors, but it will also improve our team tremendously and we'll be able to make that CL money we've been without for a years. On paper Rodriguez will be another pawn for Madrid and he doesnt even fit in their playing system. He does have star power but he's no Ronaldo, Messi or even Neymar so im not sure how much he'll improve Madrid on the commercial front.

PS: dont overestimate the effect of band waggoners, they do make a different but if Man Utd is the number one club in shirt sales in 2014 with their "not so impressive" team, there's much more than temporary fans and star players to the merchandising formula.

Let me tell you that no club is thinking about shirt sales when pondering should they bid and how much for player X.

Zizzle, I see your point about the law of diminishing returns and I agree with what you're saying.
But, I stand on what I say... there's really no reason to even make the shirt sales argument on Real Madrid's behalf, because 80 ME is nothing to us anyways... we can afford throwing away that kind of money...

I don't know why people are having such heated arguments about this when there are official numbers available. lol

Real Madrid's income prior to disposal of non-current assets split directly from their annual report from realmadrid.com:



Grey is marketing.
Yellow is broadcasting.
Light blue is int. and friendly matches.
Dark blue is members and stadium.

Grey is what interests us in this topic. If you compare 2008/2009 (prior to Ronaldo and Co.) with 12/13 (latest available numbers) you'll see that the marketing number jumped from € 130M p. a. in 08/09 to € 170M p. a. in 12/13. That's € 40M growth after 4 seasons in ALL marketing activities, including ALL shirt sales etc. What you have to consider is that Real Madrid as a brand is growing irrespective of Ronaldo or no Ronaldo. If you compare 04/05 with 08/09 for example, which weren't exactly Madrid's golden years (repeated R16 exists in the CL), they still grew from € 115 to € 130M marketing-wise. So from the € 40M growth between 08/09 and 12/13 you'd logically asume that at least € 20M isn't even related to Ronaldo and Co. selling shirts or not. They have made consecutive CL semi-finals and became a proper elite team on the pitch. So what you have is a roughly estimated € 20M growth due to possible shirt sales but including ALL the shirt sales of the entire squad. If that covers several € 70M, € 80M, € 90M Galactico transfers everyone can answer for themselves.

And as a comparison, here is Barca's income from 2013:



Real Madrid don't make any more in marketing than Barca with their super duper Galactico shirt sale and image rights policy.

/thread

You are saying Ronaldo has no effect in our marketing growth by pointing out that Real Madrid had the same growth rate in 2003 onwards.. ever considered the fact that we had Beckham,zidane,figo,Ronaldo at that time? Of course we are going to grow in marketing department regardless of the on the pitch success. In fact our huge marketing growth despite not having huge success on the pitch can only be explained with it.

Comparing total marketing figures of Barcelona and Real is nothing but lazy journalism since Barcelona earn more than real through sponsorship deals.

How is that /thread?
Barca are coming off a golden era. Like a truly, truly golden era. Probably the best years in their clubs history.
You basically just came off your own "Di Stefano/Puskas" era.
We were 2nd to you for ages. Was it 14 trophies that Guardiola won in 4 years?
That whole time, we were being thought of as 2nd rate... yet still we experienced pretty substantial marketting growth...
Ronaldo's first season was trophyless FFS. We were beaten 4-0 by Alcorcon.
Trust me, I don't want to reminisce about it... but you can't just use black and white figures to determine these effects...

If the club was still playing with the likes of Julian Faubert, Klaas-Jan Huntelaar and Rafael van der Vaart, our annual income would be closer to 200 ME today than 500...

James is as big in Colombia as Neymar is in Brazil now, if not bigger, and Colombia is a nation that is crazy about football (so crazy that they made it a public holiday when the national team was going to play Brazil), have a rather big population and a economy that is growing quickly. Now for the first time ever they have a star with the number 10 in one if not the biggest clubs in the world. The whole nation of Colombia is going to be bandwagoneering Real Madrid and follow every step he takes for the club.

He is also a handsome and likeable married man.

Real Madrid own 40 % of this guys image rights and the value of those is going to sky-rocket. This has the potential to be the best bit of business Perez have done, ever. Generations of Colombians are going to follow Real Madrid for years if he makes it at the club.

Shirt sales or no shirt sales.

Adidas confirm 900 James shirts were sold on day of his presentation. Slightly off the 400,000 figure that was reported.

That swerve.

lmao LMAO

It's shirt sales that matters, imo, but image rights, when a player like say Ronaldo signs, then signs a few commercial deals during a year "hair commercials, car deals, nike, etc" and the club gets 50% of any deal ( and these do make a lot)you better believe that the team is getting >some< of the their money back, not to mention any money they get after they sell him, and the fact that a lot of the big teams don't even look to make a profit out of their transfers, unlike small teams, they're willing to make losses in transfers if it means it get them trophies or far in UCL.

I don't remember anyone saying James sold 400k on the day of his presentation. I do remember RG posting 900 in a couple of threads.

zizzle wrote:

teamanarchy wrote:

zizzle wrote:

The shirt sales logic has been used to justify almost any expensive transfer (torres and Neymar to name just a couple) but i used James to Madrid as my primary example because he's the flavor of the months. Plus im pretty jealous of Madrid's success and wish that i was as handsome and successful as Ronaldo so u can see where i'm coming from

Now you're just being patronizing.

It's been a very difficult couple years for Inter.
But, yes, you're right, the shirt sales argument is frequently cited... It is often cited as a blanket argument for the rise in commercial value.
Thing is, if Tohir offered 150 ME for C.Ronaldo tomorrow and he moved to Inter... it would be a bargain, and you know it. How much do you think attendance figures would rise at San Siro... how many shirts would you sell? How many 17-to-40-year-old women would stop supporting Real Madrid and become Inter fans? A fair few, I'd say...
You cannot put a value on the commercial dividends of signings like this...

You bring a different argument all together. The low of diminishing returns will apply in this case and for a team like Real Madrid, adding just another star player will only result in a marginal increase. Now for a team like Inter, our roster has no stars and our most known player earned his fame by banging his friend's ex wife. A signing like Ronaldo will not only bring new fans and sponsors, but it will also improve our team tremendously and we'll be able to make that CL money we've been without for a years. On paper Rodriguez will be another pawn for Madrid and he doesnt even fit in their playing system. He does have star power but he's no Ronaldo, Messi or even Neymar so im not sure how much he'll improve Madrid on the commercial front.

PS: dont overestimate the effect of band waggoners, they do make a different but if Man Utd is the number one club in shirt sales in 2014 with their "not so impressive" team, there's much more than temporary fans and star players to the merchandising formula.

Yeah, but if we're taking this from only a financial point of view, adding one James to Real madrid probably wouldn't have the same effect for Inter, but by sustaining these "small" purchases every year, the team makes sure that their image won't fall behind (e.g. Milan).

windkick wrote:Adidas confirm 900 James shirts were sold on day of his presentation. Slightly off the 400,000 figure that was reported.

900 in the official store which doesn't take into account the online store lol (which btw has had trouble keeping up with orders)

Regardless the 400,000 number just seemed like fake twatter BS anyway.

Also I can't see how anyone can argue that these players don't provide a benefit to Real Madrid economically speaking. Real Madrid make profits every year and a large part of that is the money we make from marketing.

The system works but there is a lot of hyperbole at play. However I will say that players increasing Real Madrid's value as a brand can't be measured in the short term, brand building (or maintaining) takes time to grow and cement itself. Signing Bale, James etc makes sure that 10 years down the line the club is still be at the top as far as being able to demand more money from TV and sponsors, as well as make sure that the Bernabeu is sold out as much as possible.

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:I don't remember anyone saying James sold 400k on the day of his presentation. I do remember RG posting 900 in a couple of threads.

A quick Google search about this got me 2 articles:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2139727-real-madrid-sell-345000-james-rodrguez-shirts-in-48-hours
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/kits/195420/real-madrid-sell-345000-james-rodriguez-replica-shirts-in-space-of-48-hours.html

The latter got it from Sport who apparently got it from Euromericas Sporting Marketing.

Spanish paper Sport are reporting that, according to the people at Euromericas Sport Marketing, Real Madrid have capitalised on “Jamesmania” both among Madridistas and Colombian fans by successfully shifting approximately 345,000 “James” replica shirts in the 48 hours since the forward was unveiled in front of 44,000 people at the Bernabeu.

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:I don't remember anyone saying James sold 400k on the day of his presentation. I do remember RG posting 900 in a couple of threads.

http://www.goallegacy.net/t36159p576-official-james-rodriguez-to-real-madrid#1262377

LeVersacci wrote:345.000 shirts sold in 48 hours

7000 pr hour

Dat shiny toy

http://www.goallegacy.net/t36159p576-official-james-rodriguez-to-real-madrid#1263503

nasir6371 wrote:

James could pay for the transfer fee by the next transfer window.

I can believe that if it is including the online store. Seriously the store is currently out of stock until the 20th of August and it's already been out of stock once before that.

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:I don't remember anyone saying James sold 400k on the day of his presentation. I do remember RG posting 900 in a couple of threads.

So what are you saying.. they sold 900 the first day and then 344100 the second ?

The 900 shirts were in the Bernabeu store, there are obviously other places to buy a shirt (including the online store).

Zealous wrote:

However I will say that players increasing Real Madrid's value as a brand can't be measured in the short term, brand building (or maintaining) takes time to grow and cement itself. Signing Bale, James etc makes sure that 10 years down the line the club is still be at the top

not anymore... la galaxy became a well-known brand the second beckham announced he was going there, now nobody remembers them because they don't have the high profile presence anymore... madrid aren't well recognized now because of zidane and ronaldo, it's because they keep buying current superstars that fit the goldfish memory span of the general public... remember kaka? neither do i

it's the same reason nobody gives a shit about valencia and leeds and celtic anymore, they're just not present anywhere

Well you can build a brand by 1) consistently winning trophies 2)consistently buying top players. 1 can lead to 2 much more often than 2 can lead to 1.

Guys you need to relax, whether it was 900 or not Adidas have already come out and said that the reports were "massively exaggerated". Madrid sell 1.5m shirts per year, it would be ridiculous if they managed to sell nearly half of that in 3 days. They would literally not be able to meet the demand.

Zealous wrote:I can believe that if it is including the online store. Seriously the store is currently out of stock until the 20th of August and it's already been out of stock once before that.

more are in stock on the online store