First off let me clarify that I'm not a messi hater.. .in fact looking forward to pep's barca used to keep me going through the week. Seeing some of Messi's performances this world cup has brought me down though.Yes he has scored but he seems utterly lethargic, reluctant to take people on, and almost always fails with his dribbles...it is a huge contrast to the 2009-11 seasons. messi was so good, so explosive at such a young age that almost every time he got the ball you expected something to happenMy friends and I joked that by the time he was 26,27 he would be dribbling 5,6 players regularly like it's no big deal. Instead his on the ball ability has declined precipitously, and his stamina is awful. Read a stat that only outfileld players(all defenders) have covered less ground. It can't be injuries cause players who're just coming back like vidal and schweini have been way more dynamic. A chronically injured 30 yr old robben runs far more than 27 yr old messi ffs. Also doub it's motivation as we saw after the pens what it means to him. The only other explanation I  can think of is some health issue(ie the vomiting)., and we all know messi's medical history. Was just wondering if anyone might have some idea what's going on? Maybe some some south american members heard some interesting speculation, cause this is not normal for a player in his physical prime...

and here is some figures i found on # fouls messi commited per season
05/06: 19
06/07: 48
07/08: 41
08/09: 47
09/10: 53
10/11: 45
11/12: 53
12/13: 18
13/14: 8

I think messi doesn't have the stamina to be as explosive as before. I don't know what happen to him. But i think we will never see old messi again.You can bet on it. Unless he gets back his stamina.

Lucho will turn him into a marathon runner. The lack of authorative coaching personality post Pep era has destroyed him. That will be fixed next season.

He does make quite a few sprints with the ball during games, so from that point of view it's perhaps understandable that he doesn't exhaust himself with pressing or off-the-ball movement, because the more energy he's got left for running with the ball the more dangerous he is.

That said, his work-rate has looked below-par even for someone who wants to save himself for quick sprints. I don't know would a harder-working Messi make much of a difference to this Argentina side, though, as they've been surprisingly sound defensively anyway.

Robben 4 dribbles to 5 turnovers.
Messi 10 dribbles to 0 turnovers.

Dat stamina regeneration.

harmonica

sometimes i wonder if you're not some kind of parasitic creature that lives somewhere inside messi's colon.

But he is still does more than other world class forwards likes of Higuain, aguero, lavezzi

Higuain - 1 goal in 6 games
Aguero - 0 goal in 4 games
Lavezzi - 0 goal in 5 games
Di Maria - 1 goal in 5 games

If the world cup was easy for Argentina as people describe then these forwards would make a show in each match as they are considered best attackers in the world

Messi deserves applaud. He does more than any Argentina attacker. He kept Sneijder out of game yesterday as Sneijder was following him all the game. Its really hard to do anything if opponents task is to destroy your play. It was the same with Robben yesterday

Robben is the example that hard working or great stamina will not give you anything if opponents task is to destroy your moves and play

gnrfan wrote:and here is some figures i found on # fouls messi commited per season
05/06: 19
06/07: 48
07/08: 41
08/09: 47
09/10: 53
10/11: 45
11/12: 53
12/13: 18
13/14: 8

This is pretty shocking and indicative of the truth.

Harmonica wrote:Robben 4 dribbles to 5 turnovers.
Messi 10 dribbles to 0 turnovers.

Dat stamina regeneration.

That has got to do with ability rather than stamina, and I am certain that everyone knows, even the biggest Messi hater, that Messi has the most ability in the whole world.

--

I am gonna be honest, I get quite annoyed with Messi's lack of stamina, but he still has the ability of the greatest player in the world.

And also, just because you don't run alot, it doesn't mean that you don't help defensively. I mean, against Switzerland, Messi was the player that ran the least, yet he was the player who won back the ball the most.

If Robben gets Messi treatement 10 games in a row (in the middle of center in crowded place) he will end up like Messi. Unintrested and lazy. In this world cup he got big hype. Big hype like Messi. So he got Messi treatement in last match. Now imagine that Messi is in this hype his entire career and gets this treatement every game. Its not easy to play under such condition. Doesnt matter if you run more or press more. Its very hard to play. And if they dont allow you to play you become lazy and uninterested

But them focusing on you means they sacrifice somethings from their general play. So its a also help for the team

darixanboy wrote:If Robben gets Messi treatement 10 games in a row (in the middle of center in crowded place) he will end up like Messi. Unintrested and lazy. In this world cup he got big hype. Big hype like Messi. So he got Messi treatement in last match. Now imagine that Messi is in this hype his entire career and gets this treatement every game. Its not easy to play under such condition. Doesnt matter if you run more or press more. Its very hard to play. And if they dont allow you to play you become lazy and uninterested

But them focusing on you means they sacrifice somethings from their general play. So its a also help for the team

But Robben didn't even get the Messi treatment. Yes, Argeninta were more cautious because of Robben, but Robben wasn't man marked like Messi..

Harmonica wrote:Robben 4 dribbles to 5 turnovers.
Messi 10 dribbles to 0 turnovers.

Dat stamina regeneration.

Messi 0 turnovers? 0 TURNOVERS?!



should be punishable with -25% warning level tbh.

He's been lazy ever since Pep left. I think he suffers from a lack of direction, next season will tell a lot. Especially since Luis Enrique is a supposed 'fitness freak'.

Messi will fire Lucho if he wants to ffs

Valkyrja wrote:Messi will fire Lucho if he wants to ffs

I dont think he is being lazy. Like many players, his body has changed, he is heavier, less explosive, slower, less resilient. Athletically he is not the same guy he was 3 years ago, all the challenges, all the stress of those winning seasons, it took a toll on his body.

He is still marvelous and can do incredible things, but he is also easier to deal with. He doesnt even go into challenges try to hustle his way past them, or when he does, he just got dispossessed in a way that never used to happen.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Harmonica wrote:Robben 4 dribbles to 5 turnovers.
Messi 10 dribbles to 0 turnovers.

Dat stamina regeneration.

Messi 0 turnovers? 0 TURNOVERS?!



should be punishable with -25% warning level tbh.

Wtf is this. I watched him lose the ball time and time again.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Athletically he is not the same guy he was 3 years ago, all the challenges, all the stress of those winning seasons, it took a toll on his body.

How do challenges on you affect your stamina? Or stress?

I think the most accurate answer to Messi's fatigue or low work-rate is the simplest and the most obvious one: He's gotten lazy.

Nobody mentioned birth of his son. He said his son changed his life and now he loves his son more than football

Before he was all about football. Now he is all about his son

darixanboy wrote:Nobody mentioned birth of his son. He said his son changed his life and now he loves his son more than football

Before he was all about football. Now he is all about his son

Don't they always say that? Wouldn't take the son in account here... or we might as well let every footballer with kids off the hook when it comes to their "passion for the sport" or form or whatever.

Generally, why do we assume athletes who reach an absolute top level like Messi should be expected to keep that level for years and years?
He's been at that level for many many years already, why is it so strange he might fall back a LITTLE BIT for a number of reasons.
Body, motivation, life changes, changes in the sporting surroundings/the team, you name it.

Of course then also for  a number of reasons he might reach top level again for a spell, or not.

Ronaldo maybe is a slighty different case as he seems to have this extraordinarily huge VOID in himself that needs to be FILLED.
He'll probably still throw tantrums and sulk when he can't solve his sudoku in the retirement home.

But even he needs to watch it with his body, he's played now 'injured' through a CL semi- and final and a WC, there's no guarantee that won't be a growing factor hampering him in the future.

Hapless_Hans wrote:Messi 0 turnovers? 0 TURNOVERS?!



should be punishable with -25% warning level tbh.

CBarca wrote:Wtf is this. I watched him lose the ball time and time again.

I belive that he uses whoscored, and they have 2 different categories for losing the ball i.e "turnovers" and "dispossessed". And according to their stats, Messi had not a single "turnover" but had 4 "dispossessed"...

their stats are plain bullshit let me tell you, I'm pretty sure Messi lost the ball one way or antoher more than 4 times.

You are correct. People who blame Messi should name 2-3 players in history who kept their level as world's best almost 5 years in a row

Best player ever Maradona played 3 years on top then finished because of random reasons. R9 got injured because his skills were too high and his legs didnt take that pressure from such acceleration and direction changes. You name it.
No top player kept his level more than 4-5 years at the top