An Interesting Question

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Post by DeLuv Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:39 pm

Hi there folks, first post here and I am sure it will be considered a bit polemical.

I'm from Brazil and, as you guys probably know, there's a lot of brazilians living as football players throughout the world... and there's quite a bit living in Switzerland and they all say that the swiss are extremely racists.

So, here's my question.
How can a racist country back up their national team when such team is mostly made up by foreigners? Xhaka, Seferovic, Shaqiri, Drmic etc... mostly turkish/arabic or of eastern Europe ancestry.

I know is a tricky question in some ways... but, if you chose to be demented at least do it correctly.

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Post by Collblanc Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:46 pm

Seriously? My comments are deleted? What a bunch of bullshit, deleting that. This topic is made by the following 'prove';

- my friends live somewhere
- 'they say blabla'

... What kind of crazy shit is this doing here?
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Post by RealGunner Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:52 pm

Post without insulting or swearing please.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:58 pm

Well I'm sure there are racists in Switzerland that have a hard time supporting the players with foreign backgrounds, from Albania, the other Balkan states, or Arfrican countries.

Just as there are racists in Germany who probably stopped supporting our national team when the new generation of German kids with parents from somewhere else finally got included in our team.

Good thing is noone cares about those racists while at the same time our team is finally playing good football and worth supporting.
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Post by rwo power Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:21 pm

Well, the situation in Switzerland is a mixed bag. The problem is that the rather right-wing party SVP recently got a law through that makes it more difficult for foreigners to move and settle in Switzerland, but these developments have caused the EU to set up measures as punishment (like freezing money that was supposed to be given to Switzerland for certain projects etc.) Now it looks that there is quite a percentage of the rural population that supports the SVP and their Swiss-centric views, while quite a percentage of the urban population are against it. Same with supporting the Swiss NT.

An Interesting Question Schwei10
Text: "If the Swiss had voted against mass immigration a bit earlier, they would have had to go to Brazil with only three players." (this was posted by someone who is against these right-wingers of course)

There are other countries that see a rise of right-wing parties and ideas, too. If you look at France and the number of votes the far-right party Front National got (they were the strongest party for the recent European election), then you can also wonder how they think about their national team which has a number of naturalized or immigrant-kid players, too.

As for Germany, I remember I read somewhere that the NPD (ultra-right party here) already got ballistic about the players with foreign roots in our NT. Fortunately they are mostly considered idiots and even the Bundespräsident called them idiots in public, IIRC. (And when the NPD complained and set up a lawsuit, the German Constitutional Court told them to shut up and that the Bundespräsident had all rights to call them stupid. Laughing )

So this problem is obviously not only restricted to Switzerland, but to other countries as well.
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Post by 1991 Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:16 pm

Opposing mass immigration isn't racist.


Last edited by rwo power on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : No need for a lengthy full quote if the quoted article is right above yours. - rwo)
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Post by Hapless_Hans Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:26 pm

@1991 wrote:]Opposing mass immigration isn't racist.


People claiming to 'oppose mass immigration' usually are, though.
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Post by DuringTheWar Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:09 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@1991 wrote:]Opposing mass immigration isn't racist.


People claiming to 'oppose mass immigration' usually are, though.


1991 gave that the response it deserved.

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Post by Forza Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:22 pm

@DuringTheWar wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@1991 wrote:]Opposing mass immigration isn't racist.


People claiming to 'oppose mass immigration' usually are, though.


1991 gave that the response it deserved.


You've missed the point DTW. Hans is correct, whilst opposing immigration is not racist in and of itself, it is often racially motivated - and that makes it racist. I find it extremely hard to believe that these right-wing parties would oppose the immigration of people of the same race on some other basis. Speaking of which, I'd like to hear exactly what this 'other basis' is?
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Post by Forza Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:25 pm

As for the OP - to generalise an entire nation as racist is wrong. Unfortunately there are racists in every nation and of every race.
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Post by Peccadillo Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:24 am

Yeah but lets face it.. as a generalisation... the swiss are pretty racist.
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Post by rwo power Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:33 am

I think such generalizations are over the top. I don't think you can generally apply things like that to a whole nation as *that* would be using a form of "racist" (in the sense that you put one attribute generally to a whole group of humans that are only determined by a certain form of group membership - here "nationality") thinking as well.

After all, I doubt you would like it to be put with the whole of *your* nation into one pot either, or would you? Every nation contains numerous good and bad apples, and in the end humans are individuals that all have their own sets of believe that might be influenced by their culture, but they are never the whole of their culture.
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Post by che Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:02 am

@Forza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that these right-wing parties would oppose the immigration of people of the same race on some other basis. Speaking of which, I'd like to hear exactly what this 'other basis' is?


the basis is DEY TUK ERRR JERRRRBS and it's extremely frequent as far as western europeans towards eastern europeans is concerned, so race doesn't really play into it that much... it's probably more extreme towards africans/middle eastern people because they tend to form more cohesive communities abroad and have more problems integrating than polish/russian people... and honestly, in many cases you can't really blame the "xenophobes", when whole neighborhoods are taken over by people who refuse to speak your language or assimilate even a little bit in the space of a decade... i've got a friend from bradford, and he lives close to teenagers born in britain who can't even speak elementary level english because their parents educate them in arabic or whatever language they speak themselves
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Post by futbol Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:29 pm

@che wrote:
@Forza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that these right-wing parties would oppose the immigration of people of the same race on some other basis. Speaking of which, I'd like to hear exactly what this 'other basis' is?


the basis is DEY TUK ERRR JERRRRBS and it's extremely frequent as far as western europeans towards eastern europeans is concerned, so race doesn't really play into it that much... it's probably more extreme towards africans/middle eastern people because they tend to form more cohesive communities abroad and have more problems integrating than polish/russian people... and honestly, in many cases you can't really blame the "xenophobes", when whole neighborhoods are taken over by people who refuse to speak your language or assimilate even a little bit in the space of a decade... i've got a friend from bradford, and he lives close to teenagers born in britain who can't even speak elementary level english because their parents educate them in arabic or whatever language they speak themselves


Let's be honest, as far as Switzerland is concerned, none of those extreme social issues really exist, at least it's as close to nonexistence as possible. The most hated immigrants in Switzerland are actually well educated Germans. Doctors, professors, engineers etc. We are already deemed arrogant because we speak standard German instead of Swiss German. The Swiss have cultural norms, born out of sheer prosperity and wealth, which are absolutely hilarious and can't be seen anywhere else on the globe. If you go the bakery and say: "Good morning, 1 bread roll please", that's already deemed "arrogant behaviour". It has to be something along the lines of: "What a nice day we have. I'm so pleased to meet you today Mrs. bakery store lady. I thought, if it doesn't bother you too much, that maybe, possibly, if you want to, and if you don't want to you don't have to - I would like to buy 1 bread roll. But only if it doesn't bother you too much. Please." That's how the Swiss roll. Laughing

Here is an article in German, Google Translate might be able to translate the gist, 5 different German immigrants (a scientist, a journalist, a marketing employee, a product manager and a curator) describe their experiences in Switzerland: http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2014-02/schweiz-einwanderung-deutsche-protokolle

The German scientist working in the University of Zurich for example is describing how it's nearly impossible to assimilate in Switzerland the moment you open your mouth and out comes standard German. He has to hear things like "go back to the Reich" etc. One of the basic rules in Switzerland is: "If you can't speak Switzer German 100 % fluidly, don't even try it." But when you speak standard German you're also deemed arrogant. Lose-lose. Laughing


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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:51 pm

@Forza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that these right-wing parties would oppose the immigration of people of the same race on some other basis. Speaking of which, I'd like to hear exactly what this 'other basis' is?


I have no idea what it could be. I live in a country where we rather let thousands of little white girls get systematically raped, gang raped, and terrorised for over a decade by elements of Asian (muslim?) society, than stopping it if that meant shining a light over the darker aspects of the perfect multicultural utopian society we live in. So honestly in my politically correct warped mind, I have no idea why any one could possibly have a reason to be opposed to mass immigration apart them being a filthy rotten backwards racist.  

To be clear, im not really opposed to multiculturalism, after all I grew up in such a society and was happily integrated. But I cant agree with this political correct insanity "HES A RACIST!!!!!" approach many people have. You've got people so frightened of it, they wont even have the balls anymore to stop paedophiles, as the events in Rotherham have illustrated quite nicely (well, horrifically to be accurate).
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