I must say, Rosell's dealings haven't exactly covered the club in glory, but RM fans shouldn't throw stones in glass houses.

Surely if you add in tax and agent commissions every transfer going would be a lot higher than it actually is

Every club has to pay tax etc etc its one of the reasons why these big transfers take so god damn long, maybe not as much as here but if you going to include these things then every other transfer in history is a lot more than stated too.

The only difference here which don't happen in most other transfers is the excess amount on a pre contract deal and even then that happens with every big signing too.

It just happens the numbers are actually public here.

He cost 57m.... the rest is side shit which never actually normally gets included, if it did we would have 200m transfers already.

Oh i forgot the GL tax which makes neymar a 150 mil player, my bad

What's CR's transfer fee with taxes? Pretty sure that was not included in the reported 90m or so.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Surely if you add in tax and agent commissions every transfer going would be a lot higher than it actually is

Every club has to pay tax etc etc its one of the reasons why these big transfers take so god damn long, maybe not as much as here but if you going to include these things then every other transfer in history is a lot more than stated too.

The only difference here which don't happen in most other transfers is the excess amount on a pre contract deal and even then that happens with every big signing too.

It just happens the numbers are actually public here.

He cost 57m.... the rest is side shit which never actually normally gets included, if it did we would have 200m transfers already.

you are missing the point completely. , they are getting investigated for a reason.

Neymar cost 57 lol No.. They made multiple dodgy deals like Money to neymar charity (LOL),first refusal on some scrubs who will never play for Barca , scouting money to Nerman's dad for making him (lol).. in which other transfer you can see this kind of deals? The total money Barca payed with out tax was 86 mill Euros and 2 additional friendlies which is valued at 10 mill.

and the 10 mil precontract was illegal lmao

I think your missing the point.....

My point is people are adding loads of side stuff like commissions and taxes.

When they NEVER do that with every other transfer.... at least be consistent.

If you want to go the Murican route and get the full amount paid instead of the transfer fee then fair enough but don't just pick and choose when you do it.

If you added taxes and commissions among other side issues i guarantee Ibra deal to Barca would have been 100m+ and i won't even go into CR and Bale

Are you all really that naive that every big transfer in history just included the transfer fee? no it didn't so don't act like this is a special case.

For example do you really think Mata cost just the 35m to Man Yoo? of course it bloody didn't.

That's just the transfer fee but there's always side stuff that need to be paid.

You can't have your cake and eat it.... decide you either count only the transfee or the entire payment.

If you think Ronaldo "only" cost 80m you are delusional, but i don't mind that but at least be consistent.

Oh and btw they are being investigated because the tax man thinks they are evading them so well done for letting that one fly over your head.

Adit wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Surely if you add in tax and agent commissions every transfer going would be a lot higher than it actually is

Every club has to pay tax etc etc its one of the reasons why these big transfers take so god damn long, maybe not as much as here but if you going to include these things then every other transfer in history is a lot more than stated too.

The only difference here which don't happen in most other transfers is the excess amount on a pre contract deal and even then that happens with every big signing too.

It just happens the numbers are actually public here.

He cost 57m.... the rest is side shit which never actually normally gets included, if it did we would have 200m transfers already.

you are missing the point completely. , they are getting investigated for a reason.

Neymar cost 57 :lol:lol No.. They made multiple dodgy deals like Money to neymar charity (LOL),first refusal on some scrubs who will never play for Barca , scouting money to Nerman's dad for making him (lol).. in which other transfer you can see this kind of deals?  The total money Barca payed with out tax was 86 mill Euros and 2 additional friendlies which is valued at 10 mill.

Im pretty sure you will see this in most top transfers, specially in South America to Europe moves.Neymar's transfer was 57M until investigations started.If people investigate other transfers, then we would have a lot of this illegal cases.

In then end who got screwed over was Santos because they only got 17M out of everything and the rest went to Nerman and his father

I hope Rosell get's his comeuppance, that guy is poison.

I'd have liked to think any club would have walked away from such a dangerous and complicated deal, but Barca were seemingly prepared to play with fire in order to get Neymar and now they've been burnt.

All in all, I don't think anyone cares about the fee. It's not just hypocritical to talk about transfer fees, but just plain weak.

It's about the deceit, the unyielding and continuous attempt to maintain this stupid dichotomy where Barcelona assume the role of the tiny little village club rooted in ideals and philosophy, up against our cold, lifeless corporation.

People have wearied of the fakeness.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:What's CR's transfer fee with taxes? Pretty sure that was not included in the reported 90m or so.

Of course it wasn't but you know this is the only transfer in the history of football that included commissions and taxes apparently   

Again, no body talked about Taxes.

Neymar transfer cost them 86 million with out Taxes.

Yes, show me those dodgy deals in Bale, Ibra and Ronaldo's tranfers any way? you wont find because they dont exist and the transfer was between two clusbs , so they cant really lie on their annual report which is published.

Here,his father and neymar is getting paid in many dodgy deals not to mention the 10 mill advance which is illegal.

mole,you were so sure the money was just 24 mill..how is that working out for you? Balague was right.

The 10m in advance was reported a year ago and no one raised an eyebrow then...

I side with Mole on this, if every transfer were reported as the entirety of money that it took to get someone into a club then every transfer would be significantly larger. On the other hand, I very much doubt that in most of these cases the amount of extra fees amounts to basically as much as the transfer cost. It didn't help that the non-disclosure agreement with Neymar Sr made this an exciting story that the Barca board could not confirm or deny, prime for speculative journalism.

Le Samourai wrote:All in all, I don't think anyone cares about the fee. It's not just hypocritical to talk about transfer fees, but just plain weak.

It's about the deceit, the unyielding and continuous attempt to maintain this stupid dichotomy where Barcelona assume the role of the tiny little village club rooted in ideals and philosophy, up against our cold, lifeless corporation.

People have wearied of the fakeness.

I'm not argueing that.... in fact i don't care about it as it doesn't concern me.

What bothers me is the outright hypocrisy and double standard that some how Nerman is the only transfer in the history of the world which included commissions and taxes.

My point is if Nerman cost x amount then other transfers cost a lot more than people are letting on as well.

Go through every record breaking transfer in history and every single one cost more than the actual fee itself.

But for some reason with Nerman the full amount is counted, yet with every other transfer in history only the fee itself is counted.

As i said if you want to go down that route fair enough, but at least be consistent.

Also again Adit misses the point completely and only reads what he wants to read... isn't that a shock   

They lied to the Spanish tax authority and underpaid their taxes by an estimated 9 million before penalties because the transfer fee was misrepresented... that's ok  The fact that the Spanish judiciary had undertaken an investigation into fraud by the club is ok?    The fact that Barca are now "volunteering" to pay the 9 mil is ok?    And before anyone says they did so because their confidentiality agreement with Neymar's father wouldn't let them:  A contract that causes you to do something illegal is automatically void and null.  It's not even a contract.  You're not allowed to do something illegal because a contract says so

The 10 million was only an unsubtantiated rumor that FIFA and UEFA could not pursue without proof.  It's illegal in the transfer rules.  If this payment is proven and a complaint is presented, they have no choice but to deal with it.  You can't make a deposit on a player for a future transfer....  point blank, end of.  It's against the rules.

I dont think anyone is arguing Barcelona are right here, the issue is that people are naive enough to think this is the first illegal deal that has ever happened while it probably happens transfer window after transfer window

I hope the Barca soci who started all this is happy now. We're going to buy a CB sometime in 5 years when Puyol retires with 40.

so that makes it ok? we should just accept it because it happened before?? That's how countries get buried into corruption: Everyone turns a blind eye and lets it happen. 3rd world thinking at its worse.

And the additional issue is that Barca is a public entity, not a privately owned club. Not only are they doing something illegal externally, they are acting illegally internally.

This is how this whole thing came to light btw... a Barca socio demanded explanations.

http://www.marca.com/2014/02/24/futbol/equipos/barcelona/1393238588.html

Barca just paid 13,5 million to the Spanish treasury because there may have been "an isssue with interpretation" but deny fraud. How stupid do they think people are ffs.

The payment was smart because you're paying interest and penalties every day that you don't catch up... but denying wrongdoing was stupid. Just needed to keep their mouth shut. Now the Spanish judiciary is forced to proceed and show that there was in fact fraud.

The € 13.5M will be refunded if the authorities don't find any wrongdoings.

Good luck with getting a refund

sportsczy wrote:They lied to the Spanish tax authority and underpaid their taxes by an estimated 9 million before penalties because the transfer fee was misrepresented...

ok i've got a stupid question here, but how exactly does this work? if they underrepresented the fee they're basically hiding expenses, which would increase rather than decrease their tax bill no? or is this not concerned with income tax?

because through all this shit i can't see why tax fraud is what they're being charged with... shareholder fraud, sure... breaching fiduciary duty, sure... but taxes?

The fees were net... barca had agreed to pay the taxes that the recipients would owe to the Spanish govt directly. It is income earned in Spain since Barca is the payor so all the recipients are subject to the Spanish tax code on the income. By underpresenting the amounts paid, Barca reduced the amount of taxable income for those parties and underpaid their taxes.

In the US, the government would go after both the party that is supposed to pay the taxes on your behalf AND you. Not sure if the Spanish tax code would allow recourse to the other parties if the one that's contractually obligated to pay the taxes fails to do so.

Transfer fees are usually including taxes. Just read financialy reports of those clubs who have them for public download. I highly doubt Real Madrid paid more than 90m for Ronaldo.

sportsczy wrote:The fees were net...  barca had agreed to pay the taxes that the recipients would owe to the Spanish govt directly.  It is income earned in Spain since Barca is the payor so all the recipients are subject to the Spanish tax code on the income.  By underpresenting the amounts paid, Barca reduced the amount of taxable income for those parties and underpaid their taxes.

ah right, i thought the income transferred to brazil... carry on then

So, for those who know, if found guilty, does FC Barcelona take the full blame or are the execs that made the deal the ones that are held responsible?