Some Musings about National Cups

I find it a bit peculiar that people in England care so little about their national cups - okay, they have two of them, but nonetheless they are trophies and they give the winners the right to play in Europe. (And moreover, I think the German DFB-Pokal looks really cool.)

I think fans in England care a lot about the FA cup, it's just that in past years the CL dominating top clubs did neglect it a little, fielding b teams and such, thereby weakening its relevance a bit.

I think this is changing again though, the Arsenal-Liverpool game yesterday was a top game, high intensity, strong teams, both teams showed it would really mean a lot for them to progress.

But the attitude of some, 'the CL is the only thing that counts', I find a bit spoiled.
Some Chelsea fans for example, even Mourinho himself, denigrating the Euro League. That's a great traditional trophy as well, it's an honour to win it.

The FA Cup is a prestigious cup, and it is great if it is won.  Even if it's the only trophy won in a season. Southampton were heavily criticized by the media and their fans for fielding a weakened team this week. Luke Shaw publicly apologised to the fans.

The league cup is not so prestigious, it's nice if it is won, but if it's the only cup won during a season you wouldn't really call it a successful season (unless your a small club). It is used mostly to give youth players some extra games

@Busby Babe

Hm. Maybe the "problem" is that you have two cups. How exactly did that come to pass? *curious*

Maybe the German DFB-Pokal is valued a bit more as it is the only cup, and as it is always said "it has its own laws" - that is, more often than not there are lower division sides that manage to kick out Bundesliga sides, even though they usually don't field total B-sides. I mean, even Bayern once suffered that fate in the first round against the infamous team Vestenbergsgreuth (who were 5th division then although they later turned into Greuther Fürth by some mergers and stuff).

And for something dooferent, IMO it is a pity that the Europe League is considered so lowly as the UEFA expanded the Champions League and put so much more money into it. The Europe League's predecessor, the Cup Winners' Cup, had considerably more prestige, but then only the national Cup winners were allowed in, while the other big competition was for Champions only. But of course far more money can be made when more big teams play in the CL...

TBH I wouldn't mind seeing Germany implement another cup - just so I can see Bayern win even more silverware   

No, I think the DFB-Pokal as it is is perfect. And it's a nice-looking trophy to boot.

Agreed, I think it looks more like the "Kings Cup" than the Copa del Rey trophy.

But the attitude of some, 'the CL is the only thing that counts', I find a bit spoiled.

Not the appropriate thread, but I always wondered why teams that don't stand much chance of European competition take the Cups seriously.

a decent run in the CL

That modesty   

rwo power wrote:@Busby Babe

Hm. Maybe the "problem" is that you have two cups. How exactly did that come to pass? *curious*

Maybe the German DFB-Pokal is valued a bit more as it is the only cup, and as it is always said "it has its own laws" - that is, more often than not there are lower division sides that manage to kick out Bundesliga sides, even though they usually don't field total B-sides. I mean, even Bayern once suffered that fate in the first round  against the infamous team Vestenbergsgreuth (who were 5th division then although they later turned into Greuther Fürth by some mergers and stuff).

And for something dooferent, IMO it is a pity that the Europe League is considered so lowly as the UEFA expanded the Champions League and put so much more money into it. The Europe League's predecessor, the Cup Winners'  Cup, had considerably more prestige, but then only the national Cup winners were allowed in, while the other big competition was for Champions only. But of course far more money can be made when more big teams play in the CL...

I've never actually thought about why we have two domestic cups, but I did a little research. So, in the 1950's/1960s revenue was down so they decided to shake up the league by 'reorganising' it, this consisted of changing number of teams in each division from 22 to 20. The problem, however, this would further reduce revenue because of the the lower number of matches, so they decided to make an extra cup (league cup) to make up for the lost matches. Now days, the extra revenue only matters for the really small teams, and the big teams use it to give the youth players a chance at least in the early rounds.

You must also remember that our youth /reserve teams don't play in the same league system as the first team, they only face other youth/reserve teams they get a lack of competitive of matches as it is already.

And yes, the FA Cup is also famous for it's 'giant killings', just last year Wigan beat Man City in the final  

This thread originated in the Bayern section, but I thought it would be worthwhile to split this part and put it into the General Section.

Great idea, but at first I thought I had drunk posted

The FA Cup is still a serious cup in England, but less so for the clubs concerned with European competition because of the scheduling of games.

If you're in the Champions League or Europa League knockout stages, you could have the first leg just days after the 5th round of the FA Cup. Even though the Arsenal/Liverpool game was a great game, Arsenal still made several changes to their starting eleven because of the Champions League, and had they not gone through I've little doubt that they would've been criticised for not playing their strongest team.

Even before the knockout rounds of European competitions, teams in Europe will start at round three, which happens to start slap bang in the middle of the most congested part of the fixture list. So teams end up using the cup as an opportunity to rotate ahead of the league games that are played two or three days afterwards.

Unfortunately, for all its prestige, the FA Cup simply doesn't offer the same financial rewards as the league and Europe do, and most clubs will always favour that extra cash. A deep run in the Champions League or a top seven league finish will help a club grow and attract better players; the FA Cup won't do that for you, so it becomes the expendable cup for most clubs who need to prioritise.