Re: Are Madrid the Real Deal?

by Helmer Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:12 pm

it doesnt work like that in football, just because Barca could not do it, doesnt mean a midfield of Matic, Fabregas and Oscar (just an example) wont be able to do it. With a proper rigid setup and game plan, why not!! I am not saying, it will be, just saying, it can be.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:14 pm

sports is on a roll Proud

good thing he doesn't see us play, I don't want him to stop Laughing

by sportsczy Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:17 pm

i see you play 80% of your games Laughing

So yeah, i see exactly what Pep is up to and it's exactly the same thing as always for him...

by Freeza Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:18 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:I would trust a man like Mourinho more than Pep to exploit Madrid it is altogether a different matter if Mourinho has resources or not. But I think he just has enough to give it a GO

Yeah Mourinho has a history of exposing us, he was our manager 3 years after all.

by Onyx Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:19 pm

Imo one of the ways to trouble us would be to sit back with a solid defense and counter with pacey players. Dortmund did something similar last season, created plenty of chances and almost won.

by rwo power Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:29 pm

Well, then beware of Borussia M'gladbach next season, if they keep most of their current players. ^^

by Pip Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:36 pm

When will the "Guardiola has no Plan B" rhetoric end?

by Winter is Coming Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:48 pm

In my opinion Plan B is overrated.

by sportsczy Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:53 pm

Pippo wrote:When will the "Guardiola has no Plan B" rhetoric end?

When he shows the ability to adapt for a specific opponent if his base tactic isn't working... plan B doesn't mean a wholesale change of his tactics. It means adjusting it... for example, he could increase the line gaps a few meters so his defense isn't so high up when they're attacking. He could also play his fullbacks more conservatively.

Frankly,, i was shocked that he didn't change a single thing from leg 1 to leg 2 last year against Madrid. Carlo made some slight changes even when he didn't need to since we had the edge after leg 1.

I don't know if it was lack of ability or just arrogance by Pep.

by Pip Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:08 pm

sportsczy wrote:When he shows the ability to adapt for a specific opponent if his base tactic isn't working...

sportsczy wrote:Frankly,, i was shocked that he didn't change a single thing from leg 1 to leg 2 last year against Madrid. Carlo made some slight changes even when he didn't need to since we had the edge after leg 1.

I don't know if it was lack of ability or just arrogance by Pep.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:12 pm

Pippo wrote:
sportsczy wrote:When he shows the ability to adapt for a specific opponent if his base tactic isn't working...

what's there to laugh about? sports watches 80% of our games rofl

by sportsczy Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:22 pm

If you guys know me at all, you know i did... i followed Ribery for several years and then just kept watching Bayern last season because i was interested to see what Pep was doing. Same this season.

He never adjusts for an opponent. He adjusts to try something new for himself to see if his system works better as a result. Basically, he wants to a) maximize possession and b) recover the ball as quickly and as high as possible. To that end, he'll try a 4141, 343, 433, 352, etc. It has nothing to do with countering an opponent.

It worked fine against Madrid when we had guy like Khedira, Alonso (at times), Lass and Gago in the middle of the pitch. But when we added better technicians like Modric, Isco and now James... we could suddenly cope technically and didn't just fold against the pressure. We also added another freak athlete in Bale for the counter attacks. YET, instead of understanding that Madrid breaking the press = disaster with those players AND adjusting so that the press wasn't such a do-or-die proposition... he just stuck to it.

Like Tom said... the adjustment needed was so basic that it was shocking when Pep ignored it.

by Pip Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:45 pm

No. Your entire post is stupid. I won't bother going much into it, the fact that you just keep rambling to justify your original post just confirms to me that you know absolutely nothing. Lying about it does not make it any better.

sportsczy wrote:When he shows the ability to adapt for a specific opponent if his base tactic isn't working...

Borussia Dortmund, Bayer Leverkusen, Manchester United, Borussia Mönchengladbach, Arsenal, Manchester City, the list goes on. Huge changes made in those match-ups to give Bayern the advantage which they exploited, or to fix errors in judgement from Guardiola.

sportsczy wrote:Frankly,, i was shocked that he didn't change a single thing from leg 1 to leg 2 last year against Madrid. Carlo made some slight changes even when he didn't need to since we had the edge after leg 1.

The early set-pieces caused Bayern to revert to the more traditional offensive style which was the reason for the performance. A midfield devoid of dynamism forced Bayern to play almost exclusively through Ribéry and Robben. The compactness of Real Madrid's midfield when Bayern dominated the ball meant that there was just useless passing amongst Kroos and the defenders. Think about it.

It's like you are making your own judgement over Guardiola based on a two-leg tie. "He never adjusts for an opponent" - and I'm supposed to believe that you watch 80% of Bayern's matches? Stick to posting about Benzema. This is a waste of my time.

by Kaladin Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:54 pm

Pippo's hit list:

Arquitecto
Sport
MoleWinsLol
Fussball
Dnmac
Harmonica

4 Yonkou ('Big 4'):

RO
The Franchise
Dostoevsky
BarrileteCosmico

by sportsczy Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:59 pm

So that's the standard response... Pep's team dominated possession so they did what they were supposed to and it's the players' fault for not doing better with the possession. Some of you are so predictable Laughing

And he didn't adjust for any of those opponents you mentioned... he made adjustments to improve the shape of his own team to better execute his system. No elite team adjusts for another opponent from game to game. There's no need for it. You only adjust to an opponent if you have a tactical or personnel deficit you need to overcome. That typically only happens against other very good teams. Pep didn't even have to do that at Barca much because his team became dominant over everyone pretty quickly. Now that he has to make such opponent-specific adjustments for certain games... he's not really doing it or doing it poorly because he's not used to it. Bayern's talent advantage and Bundi's inferiority complex towards Bayern allow him to get away with it domestically more often than not. But in CL, he'll get exposed again once the elimination rounds are here. Doesn't need to be Madrid.... Mourinho at Chelsea would destroy him too.

As usual, your post is rubbish Pippo Laughing

by M99 Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:02 pm

El Shaarawy wrote:Pippo's hit list:

Arquitecto
Sport
MoleWinsLol
Fussball
Dnmac
Harmonica

4 Yonkou ('Big 4'):

RO
The Franchise
Dostoevsky
BarrileteCosmico

Did you forget that he retired jibers?

by sportsczy Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:04 pm

Jibers did tell me there was a football challenged poster that made him leave this board as he couldn't take it anymore... so that was Pippo?

by Bankz Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:34 pm

And the list goes on...

by chad4401 Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:46 am

pippo is clearly a troll, you jokers acting like he is some pro analysis, bayern has gotten a better understanding of pep system, but if it fails bayern ain't gonna sit back and switch to counters Laughing

, gonna keep trying the same thing over and over like last season, don't worry it will play out again beautifully Proud

by M99 Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:54 am

sportsczy wrote:Jibers did tell me there was a football challenged poster that made him leave this board as he couldn't take it anymore... so that was Pippo?

No, that was someone else he was referring to.

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:10 am

Pippo is surely the furthest thing from a troll, he was quite simply and correctly pointing out that Pep does adjust things all the time, often during games.

by chad4401 Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:21 am

so what adjustment did he make in the first leg and second leg last season? end of day possession is the name of the game, when the last time you gave up the ball for the counter? if you did that this season my bad, but if it still possession with slight changes then its more or less the same thing no?

by Hapless_Hans Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:26 am

you scored two early goals from headers after standards. Nothing to do with systems, counters, what have you.

what plan b-z will help then, if you have to overcome a 0-3 on aggregate against a team strong on counter?
Please enlighten me, geniusses. So I can send Pep an email.

by chad4401 Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:44 am

haps come on, the second game was clearly a carbon copy of the first, only difference we scored more, we attacked you through the same spaces, where was the adjustments?

by Doc Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:34 am

Can't speak for Bayern as I can only afford to watch them sparingly but Pep used to make in game changes when he was with Barcelona. Wasn't often though since Barcelona at the time were above and beyond most teams in La Liga if not all teams. It's honestly a non issue though.

by Valkyrja Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:04 pm

Former AC Milan coach Arrigo Sacchi has compared the current Real Madrid team to his Serie A side that conquered Europe in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Sacchi guided Milan to back-to-back European titles in 1989 and 1990 with what is widely considered one of the finest club sides of the 20th century.

And the 68-year-old believes Carlo Ancelotti's current European champions play with a style reminiscent of the famous Rossoneri side featuring Marco van Basten, Ruud Gullit and Frank Rijkaard.

"I love teams that own the ball and own the game and Madrid are the masters of it now. They remind me of the great Milan in some ways," Sacchi told AS.

"This Madrid team is a bit more technical than my Milan, but they don't have the ability to press their opponents right away when they lose the ball. They know how to play the ball, though, and play at a fantastic pace.

"Ancelotti has done a great job at Madrid. It is not easy to coach a team like Madrid.

"When you have a lot of great players, they all tend to think that others should do the running. There's a certain jealousy and you have to control that as a coach. There's a great team spirit at Madrid.

"Football should be about harmony and speed. This brings trouble for the opposition and excitement for the fans."

Ancelotti claimed the Copa del Rey and guided Madrid to their 10th European title in his first season at the Santiago Bernabeu.

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