Milan vs Hellas

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Post by Kaladin Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:37 pm

Milan vs Hellas BeQ_6IuIYAAcBw1
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Post by M99 Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:35 pm

No Jorginho http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/music/smurff.gif
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Post by Dante Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:37 pm

No Nocerino http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/music/smurff.gif
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Post by M99 Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:44 pm

No Matri http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/music/smurff.gif
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Post by Kaladin Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:47 pm

No Constant http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/music/smurff.gif
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Post by Zlatan Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:11 pm

No Allegri http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/music/smurff.gif


As is often the case with a change of coach, hoping there is at least a short-term spark in performance as everyone is trying to impress the new boss. Seedorf being a charismatic and strong character can also hopefully pump up the players ready to give it their all.

We'd all love a victory and it would do the team morale a lot of good, plus help Seedorf settle in to his new role. But Verona are a good team and the rest of the season is set to be a learning curve and a bedding in period, so expectations and criticism should be measured accordingly.

The called up squad:

Abbiati, Amelia, Gabriel, Bonera, De Sciglio, Mexes, Rami, Silvestre, Zaccardo, Zapata, Birsa, Cristante, Emanuelson, De Jong, Honda, Kakà, Montolivo, Nocerino, Poli, Balotelli, Petagna, Robinho.

Last time out Toni destroyed our backline with his height and strength, so starting Rami might make sense.

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Post by Forza Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:16 am

Got a sig bet riding on our victory.
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Post by M99 Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:46 am

No Toni http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/music/smurff.gif
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Post by dostoevsky Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:31 am

Hellas Verona Squad: Rafael, Nicolas, Borra, Agostini, Albertazzi, Moras, Cacciatore, Maietta, Marques, Gonzalez, Rubin, Donati, Hallfredsson, Martinho, Donadel, Romulo, Cirigliano, Donsah, Cacia, Gomez Taleb, Iturbe, Jankovic

As M99 has stated, Toni's absence is a welcome blessing for our backline which had no answer for his prowess in the air when we last met.

I would hope to see Rami featured once more, alongside Mexes, even though I'm not certain that he's truly conditioned for 90 minutes yet. Even if mistakes should creep into his game during these initial matches I believe it's important to give him as much time as possible to play himself into form ahead of our Champions League tie with Atletico.

Verona have proven a handful at home, winning eight of ten matches, however they have won only two of their nine away fixtures and it is important that as a side we begin to re-establish the San Siro as a fortress rather than an inviting homestead.

Seedorf will hopefully be using his first few fixtures to experiment, and I hope that we'll see some tactical variation over the coming weeks, however first up I expect to see the deployment of the much anticipated 4-2-3-1. I have always had my issues with such a set-up, however we have an exceptionally stable and talented pivot in Montolivo and De Jong and it will hopefully provide the width and forward pressure we have lacked all season long.
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Post by Dante Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:49 pm

The eternal 10 year old fan in me wants to burst in excitement , but the experienced fan in me says calma. I am eager and interested to watch Milan tonight and even though i don't expect any thrashing or flawless match , i hope it shall prove to be a positive night for Milan .

I really want Seedorf to do well , i always believed in him so much and always waited for the day he would become our coach , tho i didn't expect to be that soon. As i said , i believe in him and even more now that he is here. Verona may have gotten a bit weaker now without Toni and Jorginho , but that really shouldn't distract the team .

Because i never want to read such an unnaceptable comment again , which is confirmation of what i was saying the night against Sassuolo . For me it is an insult to the club Milan is for our players to have acted this way , but respect to De Jong who admits it , tho he's too cool for my liking . He should be apologising , though i can understand he thinks it won't happen again and i will stop here in this one.

De Jong wrote:We scored twice and I thought at that point the result would be a formality. Instead, we lost 4-3.
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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:02 pm

Not happy with the performance, but very happy with the blueprint of our potential system along with the intelligent increment of changes that Seedorf implemented for tonight.

Immediately with the 4-2-3-1, to which changed into a 4-5-1 in defence, our pressing was organized and far more aggressive than under Max. Attack was composed of quick transitions in a side that was effectively built around Ricky, to which he had a role without any shackles, and it worked very well. Robinho played the El Shaarawy role yet looked out of his depth there considering he cannot take half of the responsibility SES has on and off the ball at this point. Honda had a SOLID game yet looked isolated on the RAM role, obvious given it would be like that with a free role Kaka. Birsa on-paper looked to be the right choice considering he is a far better choice than Honda IN THAT ROLE. He was not spectacular, but Birsa linked up well when coming in.

Problem lay with our dual pivot, in which Monty and de Jong both lack the pace to perform with such responsibility, despite Monty having quite a good game on the offence. de Jong was below his usual as he was overrun along with his distribution missing the mark a few to many times.

Defence was suspect aside from De Sciglio, who also looked off his tangent as times, struggling with the unbearable conditions.

Milanisti quite simply did not realize what an excellent team Verona is, a team that attacks with deadly venom and who are organized within the defensive flank. Yet the sheer fact that we dominated a team who has dominated the better teams in Serie A, is a very positive sign.

Problem is we lacked the urgency to make a midfield transition from defence to attack. I would have thought Poli is the perfect man to troubleshoot that crisis yet he was not even subbed in tonight. We lacked guile in most parts of the matches yet that is expected given Seedorf has had less than a week to prepare along with not even having his desired training staff on board. His changes quite obviously will be incremental rather than drastic in the course of this season, which works given that our players will be under far too much inertia to reach that zone of mentality.

Yet there IS a clear and concise idea that Clarence aims to implement based on what we saw tonight, despite it portrayed in all its raw form.

Notes:
-Right from the get-go we have understood the side will be built around Ricky Kaka. He lacks pace and stamina (as displayed by his 2nd half fatigue) yet carries the responsibility with perfect elegance and creates very well.

-Robinho's SES role was confirmation to me, that Stephan will have a large role in this, especially given his ability to speed up play and have us look better as a team will be vital to crux the system within the left-to-central side.

-Honda will find it hard to perform if he is placed on the right again, benching Kaka is not an option. Honda can play deep very well yet prefers to be an attacking midfielder, as his one-touch play, dribbles and vision is better utilized there.

-Dual pivot with Monty-De Jong might not work solely based on their lack of pace, their understanding of the game will be their only saviour if success is within that department.

-Rami-Mexes must be implemented as soon as possible.

-Balotelli has disgusting movement off-the-ball often expecting the ball to traverse to him as Pazzo's movement would have been much appreciated tonight. Balo on the ball is a magician yet being the central focal point of the 4-2-3-1, he will not succeed if he does not improve his finishing or off-ball movement.

-Defence WAS more aware than usual and chose to anticipate rather than react as usual.

-Conditions such as these make it further hard to judge us, considering players calibrate themselves to compromise based on the muddy conditions, severely hampering our ability to execute such a ball-playing system. Keep this in mind.

-Seedorf's arrival has just injected a new energy to the club and fans. Our stadium despite less than 50k was as loud as any other stadium and chanted non-stop. Its about time we have a manager who both sets can appreciate and support as the split between was tiresome. It transcends to our training, to our atmosphere and to the pitch. That extra tangent can make all the difference.

-Have concerns on how close Seedorf is to the squad as evidenced by his more than friendly approach to the senatore and some of the stars. We need him to be more a leader than a friend to our players as otherwise this will be Montella at Roma V2.0

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Post by Guest Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:52 pm

Arquitescu wrote:Not happy with the performance, but very happy with the blueprint of our potential system along with the intelligent increment of changes that Seedorf implemented for tonight.

Immediately with the 4-2-3-1, to which changed into a 4-5-1 in defence, our pressing was organized and far more aggressive than under Max. Attack was composed of quick transitions in a side that was effectively built around Ricky, to which he had a role without any shackles, and it worked very well. Robinho played the El Shaarawy role yet looked out of his depth there considering he cannot take half of the responsibility SES has on and off the ball at this point. Honda had a SOLID game yet looked isolated on the RAM role, obvious given it would be like that with a free role Kaka. Birsa on-paper looked to be the right choice considering he is a far better choice than Honda IN THAT ROLE. He was not spectacular, but Birsa linked up well when coming in.

Problem lay with our dual pivot, in which Monty and de Jong both lack the pace to perform with such responsibility, despite Monty having quite a good game on the offence. de Jong was below his usual as he was overrun along with his distribution missing the mark a few to many times.

Defence was suspect aside from De Sciglio, who also looked off his tangent as times, struggling with the unbearable conditions.

Milanisti quite simply did not realize what an excellent team Verona is, a team that attacks with deadly venom and who are organized within the defensive flank. Yet the sheer fact that we dominated a team who has dominated the better teams in Serie A, is a very positive sign.

Problem is we lacked the urgency to make a midfield transition from defence to attack. I would have thought Poli is the perfect man to troubleshoot that crisis yet he was not even subbed in tonight. We lacked guile in most parts of the matches yet that is expected given Seedorf has had less than a week to prepare along with not even having his desired training staff on board. His changes quite obviously will be incremental rather than drastic in the course of this season, which works given that our players will be under far too much inertia to reach that zone of mentality.

Yet there IS a clear and concise idea that Clarence aims to implement based on what we saw tonight, despite it portrayed in all its raw form.

Notes:
-Right from the get-go we have understood the side will be built around Ricky Kaka. He lacks pace and stamina (as displayed by his 2nd half fatigue) yet carries the responsibility with perfect elegance and creates very well.

-Robinho's SES role was confirmation to me, that Stephan will have a large role in this, especially given his ability to speed up play and have us look better as a team will be vital to crux the system within the left-to-central side.

-Honda will find it hard to perform if he is placed on the right again, benching Kaka is not an option. Honda can play deep very well yet prefers to be an attacking midfielder, as his one-touch play, dribbles and vision is better utilized there.

-Dual pivot with Monty-De Jong might not work solely based on their lack of pace, their understanding of the game will be their only saviour if success is within that department.

-Rami-Mexes must be implemented as soon as possible.

-Balotelli has disgusting movement off-the-ball often expecting the ball to traverse to him as Pazzo's movement would have been much appreciated tonight. Balo on the ball is a magician yet being the central focal point of the 4-2-3-1, he will not succeed if he does not improve his finishing or off-ball movement.

-Defence WAS more aware than usual and chose to anticipate rather than react as usual.

-Conditions such as these make it further hard to judge us, considering players calibrate themselves to compromise based on the muddy conditions, severely hampering our ability to execute such a ball-playing system. Keep this in mind.

-Seedorf's arrival has just injected a new energy to the club and fans. Our stadium despite less than 50k was as loud as any other stadium and chanted non-stop. Its about time we have a manager who both sets can appreciate and support as the split between was tiresome. It transcends to our training, to our atmosphere and to the pitch. That extra tangent can make all the difference.

-Have concerns on how close Seedorf is to the squad as evidenced by his more than friendly approach to the senatore and some of the stars. We need him to be more a leader than a friend to our players as otherwise this will be Montella at Roma V2.0


After that match, we formed a circle all together in the locker room. We'll do it after every match; win, draw or loss."

and seedorf says next week onwards seedorf will start input his ideas more in broad way for now he just wanted to bring back joy that milan players lost.

cmon seedorf make us proud Very Happy 

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Post by Arquitecto Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:00 pm

@Jesp:

Milan vs Hellas SPOGLIATOIO_1_large

This beautiful circle is apparently the centre of the huddle. Imagine the energy and cauldron of ideas, unity and togetherness that was formed in that circle after this win. I would do anything to witness that moment.

Seedorf's post-match comments are even more encouraging. He hit the nail on the head on most parts and stressed on all the negative points we spoke about in chat. His awareness of the situation is impressive. Notice how well he was observing the whole match rather than forcing it upon by gestures to which are mostly incidental to the pitch matters.

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Post by Guest Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:44 pm

Arquitescu wrote:@Jesp:

Milan vs Hellas SPOGLIATOIO_1_large

This beautiful circle is apparently the centre of the huddle. Imagine the energy and cauldron of ideas, unity and togetherness that was formed in that circle after this win. I would do anything to witness that moment.

Seedorf's post-match comments are even more encouraging. He hit the nail on the head on most parts and stressed on all the negative points we spoke about in chat. His awareness of the situation is impressive. Notice how well he was observing the whole match rather than forcing it upon by gestures to which are mostly incidental to the pitch matters.


yes its a incredibly good idea to build that strong confidence and chemistry and i m sure seedorf will bring that. he knows what its like as a player. yes and his match comments were encouraging.

tough times will come for seedorf and he needs to make a good decision while maintaining that chemistry.
and like i said, seedorf needs to bring his leadership and cast aside that player relationship im saying the likes of bonera abbiati and even ricky even if he is playing well. because i know there are couple few players who will disappoint in upcoming games and team cant bear to share all the blames all the time. he needs to make a choice of what is right for the team.

im sure that changes for the good will happen in the summer but seedorf needs to get used to things quickly and notice and write down things of changes required so that in summer he doesnt have to start unprepared.

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Post by Forza Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:48 pm

If people on this forum ever go to Milan, take a tour to see the changerooms. Milan's (that oval room in the image) is much better than Inter's. Laughing Go and sit in Maldini's chair!
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Post by celikmilan Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:21 am

This was an ugly win but win non the less. Every beginning is tough so was this one. We had luck with that penalty but it was a clear penalty. Mario played good game, he even defended their corners well. I was again disappointed with Montolivo. He lost too much balls. Overall we lost a lot of balls in dangerous places. That needs to be dealt with carefully.

Seedorf was running our game good, giving advices when that was necessary. He even make good substitutions and in the right time. Bonera was bad as always and he most probably had some knock. Honda didn't had a great game but he was invisible in second half so giving chance to Birsa didn't change our formation. And Petagna could be very useful when given a chance.

Anyway a good start. A promising start to new carrier of Clarence Seedorf. He will learn every day so will the whole team as one. Cup game is very soon and we need a even better performance than this one. They need to focus more and stop to lose balls in dangerous places. First 20 minutes Verona barely got out of their half. We need more pressure on opponents in the whole game like that. Looking forward to the next games.

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Post by M99 Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:27 am

Arquitescu wrote:Not happy with the performance, but very happy with the blueprint of our potential system along with the intelligent increment of changes that Seedorf implemented for tonight.

Immediately with the 4-2-3-1, to which changed into a 4-5-1 in defence, our pressing was organized and far more aggressive than under Max. Attack was composed of quick transitions in a side that was effectively built around Ricky, to which he had a role without any shackles, and it worked very well. Robinho played the El Shaarawy role yet looked out of his depth there considering he cannot take half of the responsibility SES has on and off the ball at this point. Honda had a SOLID game yet looked isolated on the RAM role, obvious given it would be like that with a free role Kaka. Birsa on-paper looked to be the right choice considering he is a far better choice than Honda IN THAT ROLE. He was not spectacular, but Birsa linked up well when coming in.

Problem lay with our dual pivot, in which Monty and de Jong both lack the pace to perform with such responsibility, despite Monty having quite a good game on the offence. de Jong was below his usual as he was overrun along with his distribution missing the mark a few to many times.

Defence was suspect aside from De Sciglio, who also looked off his tangent as times, struggling with the unbearable conditions.

Milanisti quite simply did not realize what an excellent team Verona is, a team that attacks with deadly venom and who are organized within the defensive flank. Yet the sheer fact that we dominated a team who has dominated the better teams in Serie A, is a very positive sign.

Problem is we lacked the urgency to make a midfield transition from defence to attack. I would have thought Poli is the perfect man to troubleshoot that crisis yet he was not even subbed in tonight. We lacked guile in most parts of the matches yet that is expected given Seedorf has had less than a week to prepare along with not even having his desired training staff on board. His changes quite obviously will be incremental rather than drastic in the course of this season, which works given that our players will be under far too much inertia to reach that zone of mentality.

Yet there IS a clear and concise idea that Clarence aims to implement based on what we saw tonight, despite it portrayed in all its raw form.

Notes:
-Right from the get-go we have understood the side will be built around Ricky Kaka. He lacks pace and stamina (as displayed by his 2nd half fatigue) yet carries the responsibility with perfect elegance and creates very well.

-Robinho's SES role was confirmation to me, that Stephan will have a large role in this, especially given his ability to speed up play and have us look better as a team will be vital to crux the system within the left-to-central side.

-Honda will find it hard to perform if he is placed on the right again, benching Kaka is not an option. Honda can play deep very well yet prefers to be an attacking midfielder, as his one-touch play, dribbles and vision is better utilized there.

-Dual pivot with Monty-De Jong might not work solely based on their lack of pace, their understanding of the game will be their only saviour if success is within that department.

-Rami-Mexes must be implemented as soon as possible.

-Balotelli has disgusting movement off-the-ball often expecting the ball to traverse to him as Pazzo's movement would have been much appreciated tonight. Balo on the ball is a magician yet being the central focal point of the 4-2-3-1, he will not succeed if he does not improve his finishing or off-ball movement.

-Defence WAS more aware than usual and chose to anticipate rather than react as usual.

-Conditions such as these make it further hard to judge us, considering players calibrate themselves to compromise based on the muddy conditions, severely hampering our ability to execute such a ball-playing system. Keep this in mind.

-Seedorf's arrival has just injected a new energy to the club and fans. Our stadium despite less than 50k was as loud as any other stadium and chanted non-stop. Its about time we have a manager who both sets can appreciate and support as the split between was tiresome. It transcends to our training, to our atmosphere and to the pitch. That extra tangent can make all the difference.

-Have concerns on how close Seedorf is to the squad as evidenced by his more than friendly approach to the senatore and some of the stars. We need him to be more a leader than a friend to our players as otherwise this will be Montella at Roma V2.0


No need for me to post anything, you summed up all the points perfectly. Only disagreement I have is that I think you are being too harsh on Balotelli and Robinho. Robinho ran his socks off and worked very hard while Balotelli was one of our most dangerous players and look most likely to make something happen.
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Post by Rossoneri Ninja Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:46 am

i thought Monto had a poor game, got caught way too many times, against better sides we'd have conceded at least 2 times because of this.
Tactically i don't think we were impressive, never looked like scoring from open play and the possibility of conceded on the break seemed more likely as the game wore on. I didn't particularly like the way we played the first 20 minutes, suffocating and applying pressure is advantageous, however i thought it wasn't a very efficient method vs such a tactic that Verona was applying.
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Post by M99 Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:57 am

Monto marvellously bought the ball forward but lost it too many fckin times. He will need time to adapt to the new system and his new role.
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Post by Forza Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:39 am

Finally, halfway into the season, we have settled on a standard formation thanks to Seedorf.

vs Verona:

Abbiati

De Sciglio - Zapata - Bonera - Emanuelson

Montolivo - De Jong

Honda - Kaka - Robinho

Balotelli

Ideal (no injuries):

Abbiati

Abate - Rami - Mexes - De Sciglio

Montolivo - De Jong

Honda - Kaka - El Shaarawy

Balotelli

Depth:

Gabriel

Silvestre - Bonera - Zapata - Emanuelson

Poli/Cristante - Muntari

Birsa - Saponara - Robinho

Pazzini

Throwing out the trash:

Being realistic and taking into account that it's unlikely that Bonera & Emanulson will leave whilst Silvestre will probably return to Inter, I would like to see our squad trimmed down to this:

GK: Abbiati, Amelia, Gabriel, Coppola
DEF: Abate, Bonera, Constant, De Sciglio, Emanuelson, Mexes, Rami, Silvestre, Vergara, Zaccardo, Zapata
PIVOT: Birsa, Cristante, De Jong, Montolivo, Muntari, Nocerino, Poli
AM: El Shaarawy, Kaka, Honda, Saponara, Robinho, Petagna
ST: Balotelli, Pazzini

That leaves our team looking like this with a total of 21 players:

GK: Amelia, Gabriel
DEF: Abate, Bonera, De Sciglio, Emanuelson, Mexes, Rami
MID: Birsa, Cristante, De Jong, Montolivo, Poli
AM: El Shaarawy, Kaka, Honda, Saponara, Robinho, Petagna
ST: Balotelli, Pazzini

Bringing players in:

There are 3 transfers in that I would like to make:

1. I still don't trust Mexes and would like to see another CB arrive to partner Rami. Mexes remains as a good depth option.

2. Our midfield depth will still need to be bolstered. I am satisfied with our 3 AMs and their depth options, however, if Robinho leaves, we will need to get a replacement. With regards to the pivot, I think that an injury to either Montolivo or De Jong would really hurt us because Poli and Muntari are inferior players. Poli has potential to become a vice-Monty, but Muntari is not particularly good at anything other than bombing forward and grabbing an opportunistic goal. I would suggest that a versatile CM needs to arrive.

3. Getting a starting GK is the third priority. Abbiati is clearly not at his best. Gabriel is promising, but raw and could be sent out on loan to get some more game-time. Amelia can remain as a back-up.

4. Lastly, I would want a young striker promoted or Niang to return from Montpellier.

Tactics:

Much has been said about Honda being isolated at RAM, even though it is his preferred position. I put this down to his fitness level rather than the position he is in. He's said this week that he's only 50%, so I am looking forward to when he is at full strength.

As for the other major area of tactical concern, the pivot needs time to develop. I don't think that pace is as much of a concern in those holding midfield positions as positioning and stamina. Monty and De Jong will be vital for our transition. The speed and accuracy of their passing to the 3 AMs after winning the ball back will determine the success of the pivot.
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