Atletico Madrid - FC Barcelona | La Liga Matchday 19 | Sat Jan 11th, 2013

I think it's time we talk about the elephan in the room and how uninfluential was Xavi in this game. Did nothing in attack, had more missed passes than ever, even dispossesed a few times. Absolutely invisible defensively. It's really time from him to leave way for new blood.

free_cat wrote:Why is people saying we defended great? that's not really true, we defended as usual. Atletico just failed to score their chances (Turan's, Costa's, Villa's) and thankfully for us a couple of 1v1 were wrongly called offsides.

Probably because most people are sane enough to see that limiting the best home team in Europe to 2 or 3 half chances can be considered a very good defensive performance.

Only 1 offside call was wrong (ESPN drew the lines) and it wasn't a 1 on 1.

Poor game in attack, I agree. Obviously without Messi and Neymar, Iniesta off after 45 minutes and Alves without match fitness.

Tata did better than Pep in his first 2 seasons in the Calderon.

Best home team?   
Also, Atletico are far from an attacking machine, except two or three games, they usually score just a couple of goals.
We didn't defend any better than most of our games this season, vs a team that barely tried to attack and that failed to convert two very clear chances and some other shots that could have been goals. We had 0 clear chances.
Also, considering that we played very conservative.

Atleti have scored 43 % more goals at home than Bayern in the same amount of games. More goals than Barca and Real Madrid, too. Maybe only Manchester City is better at home.

our defense will never be good unless the opponent has 0 chances against our goal.


some of the standards people have here for Barcelona are incredible, also unrealistic.

freecat please stop it, its very annoying!

Tata is doing a great job and our team is improving! give him credit, we're playing better than the last 2 seasons. Our team is depending and pressing better as a team...

We can still improve, but we're doing fine so far.

People like free_cat will be happier if Barcelona fail under Martino so he can reach his ulterior motive.

Anyone remember him criticising that sad excuse for a coach (Pito)?

Anyway on topic: Yes, Martino was conservative. Yes, (in my opinion) he made a mistake by playing Xavi. But he's not playing some scrub team in Camp Nou. People really need to wake up and realise you can't go to Vicente Calderón with the aim of thrashing a top team like Atlético.

Well, you can. But in order to do that you certainly need your best 2 attackers starting and in good shape.

We still have another 2 gears left and that's something I like. The Atletico performance isn't our best. It's something to build on though. Matching Atleti's intensity in the Calderon is a good foundation. Last season we peaked around December. Around February fitness levels started dropping, we didn't press, leaked goals all season etc. This season feels completely different. More like "when are Messi, Neymar, Alves, Xavi, Iniesta finally going to get some game time together to really get going?" Still hasn't happened yet. Defense is also much much more stable. We mostly concede from corners nowadays, rarely from open play. The best Barca is yet to come.

Treble is on tbh.

Of course with Messi and Neymar starting (and fit), it could have been a different story. And you mentioned Alves was unfit and and Iniesta was withdrawn after 45 minutes. Atlético on the other hand were at full power with no key players missing.

My only gripe with Martino was playing Xavi for 90 minutes when he pretty much didn't do anything worth mentioning all match besides playing a couple of long passes and a one-two but I think those scattered moments of brilliance were overshadowed by him slowing the game down every time he touched the ball. A legend he is, but his best days are past him in my opinion. He's 34 ffs.

Mascherano & Arda - best players of Atletico v Barça (0-0)

jugster do you upload those yourself?

free_cat wrote:I think it's time we talk about the elephan in the room and how uninfluential was Xavi in this game. Did nothing in attack, had more missed passes than ever, even dispossesed a few times. Absolutely invisible defensively. It's really time from him to leave way for new blood.

An elephant is atleast visible.Fabregas was invisible like bacteria.And here I was thinking that he was our nuclear weapon against park the bus teams.Our bunker buster for park the bus teams.And yet he went completely into hiding.Where were his famed Hollywood balls to unlock park the bus teams?Or are there more excuses from you for Fab?
And Xavi put in a good shift defensively.Dont know what game you were watching.

Even assuming you were right and Xavi were to make way for new blood,please enlighten me about this new blood that we have.Hearing you talk,one would imagine that we still have Thiago waiting in the wings.All we have as new blood is Scruberto.The guy is a hopeless passer,has a poor touch, cant control a game and unlike Fab doesnt have the end product to make up for it.Takes the meaning of the phrase one touch passing a bit too literally and treats the ball like a grenade when he has it,releasing it usually with the wrong pass.But hey,he is young and from La Masia.So ofcourse he must be great.
Unless there is someone else that you know of and I dont,I am afraid we are going to have to stick to old blood.

alexjanosik wrote:

free_cat wrote:I think it's time we talk about the elephan in the room and how uninfluential was Xavi in this game. Did nothing in attack, had more missed passes than ever, even dispossesed a few times. Absolutely invisible defensively. It's really time from him to leave way for new blood.

An elephant is atleast visible.Fabregas was invisible like bacteria.And here I was thinking that he was our nuclear weapon against park the bus teams.Our bunker buster for park the bus teams.And yet he went completely into hiding.Where were his famed Hollywood balls to unlock park the bus teams?Or are there more excuses from you for Fab?
And Xavi put in a good shift defensively.Dont know what game you were watching.

Even assuming you were right and Xavi were to make way for new blood,please enlighten me about this new blood that we have.Hearing you talk,one would imagine that we still have Thiago waiting in the wings.All we have as new blood is Scruberto.The guy is a hopeless passer,has a poor touch, cant control a game and unlike Fab doesnt have the end product to make up for it.Takes the meaning of the phrase one touch passing a bit too literally and treats the ball like a grenade when he has it,releasing it usually with the wrong pass.But hey,he is young and from La Masia.So ofcourse he must be great.
Unless there is someone else that you know of and I dont,I am afraid we are going to have to stick to old blood.

Fanboy analisis. 

Hilarious the part where you say he put in a good shift defensively. He did nothing in defence, he was a hole. Tracking back slowly, being dribled.... In a whole game he made 2 tackles. That's all. With the ball, he touched it a lot (the most) and didn't do anything of merit with it. Isn't that worse than not being barely visible but touching little ball like Fabregas'?

We can't even rely on Xavi's fantastic passing (he had the worse passing of our midfield trio delivering the ball to Atletico's feet several times; Arda's chance for instance) neither his holding skills (lost the ball the most from our midfielders too) although these have been long diminished.

Xavi has only played a brilliant game in the last year (vs. Milan in the 4-0) yet you can't see it. What I propose is to give Fabregas a chance in his CM spot. Fabregas had a bad game, I agree, however it should be noted that yet again didn't start as a CM. We should give him a full big game in his preferred position before discrediting him. So far, he has had none.

Also, it has to be noted that thanks to Xavi blocking the way, we don't have Thiago anymore....

I don't think I've ever hyped Roberto, so your sarcastic statements on him are pretty much uncalled for. I don't think he is or will be good enough to be a permanent starter for us, however, he is a better player than you are describing and he is lacking some confidence in his play, that's why he releases the ball too fast sometimes. With current Xavi, even Roberto could be an improvement because we would then have a much more solid midfield. Roberto is miles ahead of Xavi in terms of workrate and defence.

And a final second option would be to buy Koke or Gundogan (I prefer Koke to replace Xavi). But as long as we have Xavi being a sacred cow and wanting to play everything, it's pointless to do so. You don't buy young cracks like them and have them sit on the bench until a coach has balls to sit Xavi or him himself sees that he should leave way for new blood when he is 40.

free_cat wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:

free_cat wrote:I think it's time we talk about the elephan in the room and how uninfluential was Xavi in this game. Did nothing in attack, had more missed passes than ever, even dispossesed a few times. Absolutely invisible defensively. It's really time from him to leave way for new blood.

An elephant is atleast visible.Fabregas was invisible like bacteria.And here I was thinking that he was our nuclear weapon against park the bus teams.Our bunker buster for park the bus teams.And yet he went completely into hiding.Where were his famed Hollywood balls to unlock park the bus teams?Or are there more excuses from you for Fab?
And Xavi put in a good shift defensively.Dont know what game you were watching.

Even assuming you were right and Xavi were to make way for new blood,please enlighten me about this new blood that we have.Hearing you talk,one would imagine that we still have Thiago waiting in the wings.All we have as new blood is Scruberto.The guy is a hopeless passer,has a poor touch, cant control a game and unlike Fab doesnt have the end product to make up for it.Takes the meaning of the phrase one touch passing a bit too literally and treats the ball like a grenade when he has it,releasing it usually with the wrong pass.But hey,he is young and from La Masia.So ofcourse he must be great.
Unless there is someone else that you know of and I dont,I am afraid we are going to have to stick to old blood.

Fanboy analisis. 

Hilarious the part where you say he put in a good shift defensively. He did nothing in defence, he was a hole. Tracking back slowly, being dribled.... In a whole game he made 2 tackles. That's all. With the ball, he touched it a lot (the most) and didn't do anything of merit with it. Isn't that worse than not being barely visible but touching little ball like Fabregas'?

We can't even rely on Xavi's fantastic passing (he had the worse passing of our midfield trio delivering the ball to Atletico's feet several times; Arda's chance for instance) neither his holding skills (lost the ball the most from our midfielders too) although these have been long diminished.

Xavi has only played a brilliant game in the last year (vs. Milan in the 4-0) yet you can't see it. What I propose is to give Fabregas a chance in his CM spot. Fabregas had a bad game, I agree, however it should be noted that yet again didn't start as a CM. We should give him a full big game in his preferred position before discrediting him. So far, he has had none.

Also, it has to be noted that thanks to Xavi blocking the way, we don't have Thiago anymore....

I don't think I've ever hyped Roberto, so your sarcastic statements on him are pretty much uncalled for. I don't think he is or will be good enough to be a permanent starter for us, however, he is a better player than you are describing and he is lacking some confidence in his play, that's why he releases the ball too fast sometimes. With current Xavi, even Roberto could be an improvement because we would then have a much more solid midfield. Roberto is miles ahead of Xavi in terms of workrate and defence.

And a final second option would be to buy Koke or Gundogan (I prefer Koke to replace Xavi). But as long as we have Xavi being a sacred cow and wanting to play everything, it's pointless to do so. You don't buy young cracks like them and have them sit on the bench until a coach has balls to sit Xavi or him himself sees that he should leave way for new blood when he is 40.

That was not a fanboy post.That was me calling you out on ur BS and the fallacies in your post.And you respond with a post that is even more wrong.

Xavi put in a good defensive shift in the game.Just because he doesnt do crunching tackles doesnt mean he didnt put in a good shift.Hsi style of defending is different.He closes down space and players,presses,forces players into non threatening areas where they can create danger.And he did all that in this game.
Dont belive me.Watch minutes 31 and 37 for what I just said.Few more instances of the same but I will have to watch the game again.He also covered Alves flank when he was caught upfield.Even did it for Alba once.Cleared 2 Atleti corners and was also shouting instructions of corners all game.So yes,he put in a good defensive shift.At any rate he was far better defensively than Fab.

You are also wrong that he gave the ball away the most and had the worst passing of our trio.Xavi had a pass completion rate of 89% and Fab a rate of 82%.And this while Xavi attempted far more passes.
On him being dispossessed,all 3 occassions were when he was clearly fouled and the ref failed to call it.The Arda chance came after a clear foul on Xavi whcih left him on the groud but the ref didnt call.
Also you seem to be forgetting that Busquets had the worst offende of the night when he misplaced a simple pass in the first minute which led to an Atleti chance.But as expected you choose to ignore that.

Please note that I am not saying that Xavi played well.I thought he was average.But then so were our other midfielders.Iniesta was poor before he went off.Fab the great bunker buster was atrocious and worse than Xavi.Busquets was better but again didnt have a great game.But you crictize only Xavi somehow implying that the others were better when they were not.
And you still havent answered my question.You repeatedly claim that Xavi is useless against PTB teams and that others are better.And yet why is it that whenever we face a great PTB team nearly everyone struggles to do squat.Everyone from Ineista,Fabregas,Messi has done squat against PTB teams?
Where exactly was Fab against Atletico given that he is so great against PTB teams?

You keep saying that we should play Fab in his preferred position,yet you seem to be forgetting that his preferred position is as a 10 and not as a CM.He has had his best output for us this year as a false 9 and has been poor as a CM(mostly invisble when he dropped into midfield agaisnt Atletico).
Clearly shows that he is best as a 10(the false 9 is close to that role) and that he prefers playing as a 10 to a CM.

And I am not sarcastic about Roberto.Genuinely think he is a scrub and not good enough for us.You asked that Xavi make way for new blood.I asked you who this new blood might be as Roberto is a scrub.
And I cant believe that you blame Xavi for Thiago's departure.Of all the reasons that I can think of for Thiago's departure,Xavi would be the last.
Tito's stupid mismanagement would be the primary reason Thiago left.That and the Fabregas signing(when it was not needed), and the low release clause in Thiago's contract.
But hey,continuing with your trend,lets blame Xavi for everything.While we are at it,lets also blame Xavi for Messi not winning the Balllon D Or.

On the replacements that you have mentioned,I am not convinced.Gundogan is the flavor of the season much like Sahin before him.I dont think he is good enough for us.Plus he has been injured for a whole season.Huge risk.
Koke.The same guy who was invisble against us.And you call him a crack!!!!!

alexjanosik wrote:
Xavi put in a good defensive shift in the game.Just because he doesnt do crunching tackles doesnt mean he didnt put in a good shift.Hsi style of defending is different.

No, he didn't and 95% of people who watched the game would tell you that.

alexjanosik wrote: You are also wrong that he gave the ball away the most and had the worst passing of our trio.Xavi had a pass completion rate of 89% and Fab a rate of 82%.And this while Xavi attempted far more passes.
On him being dispossessed,all 3 occassions were when he was clearly fouled and the ref failed to call it.The Arda chance came after a clear foul on Xavi whcih left him on the groud but the ref didnt call.
Also you seem to be forgetting that Busquets had the worst offende of the night when he misplaced a simple pass in the first minute which led to an Atleti chance.But as expected you choose to ignore that.

Fabregas played half the game as striker, he doesn't count in the comparisons. Of the other three midfielders, Xavi was the worse by far. One bad play from Busquets doesn't mean anything, he had a very good game and was one of our best players together with Pique. Xavi was poor compared to his standards (not getting a 90% completion pass when all he did were easy passes, no through balls, few long balls, etc... is worrying) and also compared to the other midfielders.

alexjanosik wrote:
Please note that I am not saying  that Xavi played well.I thought he was average.But then so were our other midfielders.Iniesta was poor before he went off.Fab the great bunker buster was atrocious and worse than Xavi.Busquets was  better but again didnt have a great game.But you crictize only Xavi somehow implying that the others were better when they were not.

Cesc wasn't worse than Xavi playing as CM, he had a couple of good passes, in those 45 minutes, while Xavi had nothing to show for it.

alexjanosik wrote:
And you still havent answered my question.You repeatedly claim that Xavi is useless against PTB teams and that others are better.And yet why is it that whenever we face a great PTB team nearly everyone struggles to do squat. Everyone from Ineista,Fabregas,Messi has done squat against PTB teams? Where exactly was Fab against Atletico given that he is so great against PTB teams?

Yeah, it's generally hard to break a PTB, but surely Xavi is not the man to do that, he has failed in his entire career in that regard. Cesc again was playing as a striker and in the second half he provided some good passes. Maybe if he was given 90 minutes as CM he could have done something. My point is that we should give him a chance as CM instead of Xavi before discounting him. He hasn't really played any big game there.

I disagree that Cesc plays better as false 9, he had his best games as CM, by far this season.

alexjanosik wrote:
And I am not sarcastic about Roberto.Genuinely think he is a scrub and not good enough for us.You asked that Xavi make way for new blood.I asked you who this new blood might be as Roberto is a scrub.
And I cant believe that you blame Xavi for Thiago's departure.Of all the reasons that I can think of for Thiago's departure,Xavi would be the last.
Tito's stupid mismanagement would be the primary reason Thiago left.That and the Fabregas signing(when it was not needed), and the low release clause in Thiago's contract.

Thiago was Xavi's natural replacement. He wasn't played over Xavi, ever, so he left. The culprit I agree is Tito and the board, but Xavi was there to block his way.

Oh, and I thing you have no clue about Roberto, the kid has played from Ok to well for us, and he is clearly not a scrub.

alexjanosik wrote:
On the replacements that you have mentioned,I am not convinced.Gundogan is the flavor of the season much like Sahin before him.I dont think he is good enough for us.Plus he has been injured for a whole season.Huge risk.
Koke.The same guy who was invisble against us.And you call him a crack!!!!!

Gundogan being injured so long is something to have in mind. Koke wasn't really invisible, no more than anyone else in that game, while he put an incredibly defensive display that none of our midfielders can put, having also a proven and very good quality.