Re: Champions League: Match-day 6

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:00 pm

RealGunner wrote:People did claim Dortmund were a big side though. Maybe not for Flameas.

Tbf though if those games were played with KO rules they would have knocked you out on away goals.

by Lex Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:01 pm

And if Justin Bieber had a penis, she would be a guy

by Kaladin Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:03 pm

Lex wrote:And if Justin Bieber had a penis, she would be a guy

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:04 pm

Lex wrote:And if Justin Bieber had a penis, she would be a guy

Its quite relevant when you are talking KO stages though.

Saying we beat Dortmund means nothing as an example of why you will go far in the CL when that win wouldn't have been enough.

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:06 pm

flameas wrote:Arsenal havent faced a big side yet. I dont think they are at the same level with Bayern,
Barca or Real.

Let me get this straight? The same Real that got raped by BVB last year and the same real that needed referee help to beat United? Get real (pun intended)

Only Bayern are better than Arsenal and we have seen Arsenal on their day can beat Bayern.

by RealGunner Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:06 pm

@mole

That's not the argument though is it?

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:08 pm

Suppose.... but people are saying you haven't beaten anyone big in regards to KO stage.

So it does have relevance to the discussion.... FYI i think its rubbish you could beat any team other than Bayern IMO.

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:10 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Suppose.... but people are saying you haven't beaten anyone big in regards to KO stage.

So it does have relevance to the discussion.... FYI i think its rubbish you could beat any team other than Bayern IMO.

I might as well stop posting, is there anything we dont agree on bar Balotelli?

by Chumlum Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Lex wrote:And if Justin Bieber had a penis, she would be a guy

Its quite relevant when you are talking KO stages though.

Saying we beat Dortmund means nothing as an example of why you will go far in the CL when that win wouldn't have been enough.

But the point was that it wasn't a KO stage. Arsenal floundered at home v Dortmund but then recuperated and struck back hard. Which is all you can ask and all you that counts in the group stage. No one can say "well if it was in the knockout stages" because we can't be sure either Dortmund or Arsenal would have done things the same way.

It's like taking results from back when a win was worth 2 pts and saying, "Well, by today's rules..." and pretending there weren't important tactical differences that don't translate.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:12 pm

Don't leave me Jibs Sad

Tbh i'm a believer of Balo too, just unsure if he will translate that into winning trophies for his team/country.

by S Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:13 pm

I think it can be framed in a better way.Arsenal still have some work to do to be amongst the elite that is Bayern,Barca,Real.

They are a consistent CL team,not a consistent CL contending team and they still have some way to go to change that.

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:15 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Don't leave me Jibs

Tbh i'm a believer of Balo too, just unsure if he will translate that into winning trophies for his team/country.

Like a certain balon d'or candidate? Rolling Eyes

by RealGunner Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:16 pm

Matching Bayern is impossible. Or extremely difficult. But we still have a lot to do as you said to reach Barca's level or the level that can win us the CL.

No Arsenal fan believes we are up there with the elites yet.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:16 pm

Agreed..... you don't get to the elite until you take out one of the guys already there.

Waiting and seeing.

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:19 pm

S wrote:I think it can be framed in a better way.Arsenal still have some work to do to be amongst the elite that is Bayern,Barca,Real.

How are Real elite? Can someone explain it to me please? How? They have achieved absolutely nothing and were embarrassed last year in the cl...Barcelona arent elite, the only team is Bayern and on their day arsenal can beat anyone

by sportsczy Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:23 pm

Lol. Real are elite because we've actually beaten Barca repeatedly in their prime (this past Barca win was their first since Jan 2012 against us) + in the last 11 years, we've won 4 La Liga crowns and finished 2nd 6 other times + we've made it to 3 straight CL semis + our squad is clearly elite. Before Mou joined, we weren't elite. But i have to give him credit for fixing that at least, although i don't like his methods or personality.

Any more questions? Didn't think so.

by rwo power Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:24 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:The simple fact is we lost, and complainig about referees is NEVER a helpful or sensible thing to do.

(Except for that Ovrebo Chelsea thing, maybe)

Well, personally, I tend to complain about refs in need of guiding dogs, too - and for some reason they seem to go forth and multiply recently....

by S Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:26 pm

Elite also means winning domestically and doing it on a fairly regular basis,not just performing in Europe.

Edit : I wasnt responding to your post Jibers.

As regards to your post,they regularly challenge for the domestic league and won it two seasons ago and have also made it to 3 straight semis in the CL so obviously they were/are on of the contenders.In that context,Arsenal have nothing to shout about.

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:29 pm

sportsczy wrote:Lol. Real are elite because we've actually beaten Barca repeatedly in their prime (this past Barca win was their first since Jan 2012 against us) + in the last 11 years, we've won 4 La Liga crowns and finished 2nd 6 other times + we've made it to 3 straight CL semis + our squad is clearly elite. Before Mou joined, we weren't elite. But i have to give him credit for fixing that at least, although i don't like his methods or personality.

Any more questions? Didn't think so.

You beat them 2 times, once in copa after playing negatively all game and again 2-1 with half of their squad out. Last year Barcelona where not in their prime. Arsenal actually beat a full strength Barcelona playing attacking football 2-1. So yea...for all the Barca beating you gave BVB still raped you 4-1. FFS last season your reserves battered BArca...

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:30 pm

S wrote:Elite also means winning domestically and doing it on a fairly regular basis,not just performing in Europe.

Edit : I wasnt responding to your post Jibers.

As regards to your post,they regularly challenge for the domestic league and won it two seasons ago and have also made it to 3 straight semis in the CL so obviously they were/are on of the contenders.In that context,Arsenal have nothing to shout about.

YEa so Madrid don't qualify then...

Yes because Arsenal have faced the eventual winners. in 2011 and in 2013

by sportsczy Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:31 pm

I think it's clear that there are 3 perennial elite clubs right now in Bayern, Barca and Madrid. Then you have teams that have elite aspirations like Man City, Dortmund and PSG. Behind that, you have the very good teams such as Chelsea, Arsenal, Juve, etc. Man U without SAF is unclear to me right now.

I think you need to have elite talent level to go with great results to be considered truly elite. Those top 3 clubs have combined both. Those below have the talent but need to prove themselves in terms of results...

by Gil Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:33 pm

In what way are Dortmund, PSG and Man City elite exactly?

The only elite teams are Madrid, Barca and Bayern.

PSG have proven nothing in the CL and haven't beaten anyone worthwhile in years. It took Man City 3 years to finally get out the group stages and they're currently 4th in their domestic League while Dortmund finished 20 points behind Bayern last season and are 3rd in the BL atm.

Hell, even Madrid are lucky to be mentioned with the two FCB's because they've been a failure for years now but I'm giving them a pass because of Barcelona and the individual talent they possess.

by sportsczy Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:35 pm

jibers wrote:
sportsczy wrote:Lol. Real are elite because we've actually beaten Barca repeatedly in their prime (this past Barca win was their first since Jan 2012 against us) + in the last 11 years, we've won 4 La Liga crowns and finished 2nd 6 other times + we've made it to 3 straight CL semis + our squad is clearly elite. Before Mou joined, we weren't elite. But i have to give him credit for fixing that at least, although i don't like his methods or personality.

Any more questions? Didn't think so.

You beat them 2 times, once in copa after playing negatively all game and again 2-1 with half of their squad out. Last year Barcelona where not in their prime. Arsenal actually beat a full strength Barcelona playing attacking football 2-1. So yea...for all the Barca beating you gave BVB still raped you 4-1. FFS last season your reserves battered BArca...

That's false. We beat them in CDR semis in 2013 semis, 2013 super cup, April 2012 La Liga clasico, draw in October 2012 La Liga clasico and beat them in March 2013 La Liga clasico. That's 2 tie wins, 2 La Liga wins and 1 draw in that span. Pretty much owned them for that stretch. They owned us before that, so all you Barca fans relax lol. This last loss was the first one in a looooooong time for Madrid.

by jibers Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:36 pm

sportsczy wrote:I think it's clear that there are 3 perennial elite clubs right now in Bayern, Barca and Madrid. Then you have teams that have elite aspirations like Man City, Dortmund and PSG. Behind that, you have the very good teams such as Chelsea, Arsenal, Juve, etc. Man U without SAF is unclear to me right now.

I think you need to have elite talent level to go with great results to be considered truly elite. Those top 3 clubs have combined both. Those below have the talent but need to prove themselves in terms of results...

For me the only elite team is Bayern. Only a fully fit BVB can stop them. You are not elite after you get raped 7-0 and you are not elite when you have no trophies and have not reached a final in over 10 years...that word is getting thrown around too much around here. There is only one elite team and that is Bayern...

by S Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:36 pm

jibers wrote:
S wrote:Elite also means winning domestically and doing it on a fairly regular basis,not just performing in Europe.

Edit : I wasnt responding to your post Jibers.

As regards to your post,they regularly challenge for the domestic league and won it two seasons ago and have also made it to 3 straight semis in the CL so obviously they were/are on of the contenders.In that context,Arsenal have nothing to shout about.

YEa so Madrid don't qualify then...

Yes because Arsenal have faced the eventual winners. in 2011 and in 2013

Their last title was in 2012.Arsenal's was in 2004.You really are clutching at straws here.

And even if they arent able to win that elusive CL they are still able to reach the latter rounds fairly consistently.Thats elite for me.

by sportsczy Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:37 pm

Arsenal got a draw with Barca the year they won the CL and La Liga double... Arsenal also beat Bayern last year in the return leg of CL and actually gave them a scare (only team in CL).

So what's your point?

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