Bénin wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Bénin wrote:The casual fan don't even know that Diego lead Argentina to 2 straights finals , which is quite an achievement.

Even avid fan don't always know that it was Goycochea and the defense which actually lead Maradona to WC90 final. And that they won WC78 but failed in WC82 when Maradona was included.

lol so is it Pep's tactics that made Messi what he is now ??

Umm, what?

regional tournaments  La Liga and CL are regional tournaments too genius if you consider Libertadores and Brazilian leagues as such

Anyhow, i'm ending this discussion with you Harmonica because everyone knows you're a clown and its a waste of braincells to get into this stuff with you.

@Sportz :

You are not going to tell me that Brazilian's league back then was stronger than let's say la Liga today ... are you ?

However, Pele is a genius because he was ahead of his time. People forget too much this aspect when comparing players from differents eras. Messi is ahead of his time for instance whereas Cr7 or Bale or RVP aren't.

Bénin wrote:@Sportz :

You are not going to tell me that Brazilian's league back then was stronger than let's say la Liga today ... are you ?

However, Pele is a genius because he was ahead of his time. People forget too much this aspect when comparing players from differents eras. Messi is ahead of his time for instance whereas Cr7 or Bale or RVP aren't.

 Yes it was and much, much tougher tbh.  Brazil teams had the most money and most of the best players until the early 80s.  European club football was a pub league in comparison. Imagine Brazilian league today with all the best South American players... that's what it was like.

Its so sad, this guy does or say whatever he can say to discredit Messi or Barcelona all heil sportsczy

sportsczy wrote:regional tournaments  La Liga and CL are regional tournaments too genius if you consider Libertadores and Brazilian leagues as such

I meant Paulista was a regional tournament you dunderhead , and there was also Taca de Prata, which was reminiscent of half a league, but which was contested only between 5 states of the overall 27 in Brazil.

And there was also Taca Brazil which was national cup format competition, which Santos first won by playing all mighty 3 games.

I'd like to hear others about that.

sportsczy wrote:

Bénin wrote:@Sportz :

You are not going to tell me that Brazilian's league back then was stronger than let's say la Liga today ... are you ?

However, Pele is a genius because he was ahead of his time. People forget too much this aspect when comparing players from differents eras. Messi is ahead of his time for instance whereas Cr7 or Bale or RVP aren't.

 Yes it was and much, much tougher tbh.  Brazil teams had the most money and most of the best players until the early 80s.  European club football was a pub league in comparison.  Imagine Brazilian league today with all the best South American players... that's what it was like.

This is a good example, right?

You know the biggest problem with sportsczy? He doesnt believe in opinions. I'd say the CL is a bigger competition then WC, but he just keeps posting and posting and posting and posting and posting how thats not true. Its a opinion sportsczy. For me, Messi doesnt need it. Keep posting, please. Shove your opinion in everybody's ass. Go on.

someone losing their temper  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Intercontinental_Cup

In 1981, the supposed team of the century in Liverpool played the best club of SA that year... Zico's Flamengo. Flamengo embarrassed Liverpool. It was as if they weren't there.

That game hammered home how far ahead in terms of quality the clubs in Brazil and SA in general were. European clubs then started to throw money at the best players from over there to make them come to Europe.

I'm still using interpunction, nothing too fancy here

Collblanc wrote:You know the biggest problem with sportsczy?  He doesnt believe in opinions. I'd say the CL is a bigger competition then WC, but he just keeps posting and posting and posting and posting and posting how thats not true. Its a opinion sportsczy. For me, Messi doesnt need it. Keep posting, please. Shove your opinion in everybody's ass. Go on.

He doesn't even believe facts. I've explained the Brazilian football structure 3 times to him. And he just can't understand it.

sportsczy wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Intercontinental_Cup

In 1981, the supposed team of the century in Liverpool played the best club of SA that year... Zico's Flamengo.  Flamengo embarrassed Liverpool.  It was as if they weren't there.

That game hammered home how far ahead in terms of quality the clubs in Brazil and SA in general were.  European clubs then started to throw money at the best players from over there to make them come to Europe.  

How is 0-3 a emberrasement? lol what. By that standard messi himself raped arsenal with 4 goals, barca raped madrid 5-0, raped manchester 3-1, raped santos 4-0 etc etc. Please stop. 0-3 is not 'embarrassed'.

Using a game in different points of seasons for both as an indication of strength?

Insane I say.

Now watch him say; 'these barca fans................ :rolleyes: ' or some shit. Get your facts straight.

smh only messi fanboys could make the World Cup has some no name trophy cause messi hasn't won it yet only on GL, as soon as we wins it World Cup will be important again right?

chad4401 wrote:smh only messi fanboys could make the World Cup has some no name trophy cause messi hasn't won it yet only on GL, as soon as we wins it World Cup will be important again right?

Talk about a misquote, no one ever called the WC a no name, nor are we belittling it but given Messi's accolades and the fact that he improves every year doing things that no one else can do and displaying that level of talent means that he's already in he GOAT tier, period. I respect the WC, and I'm not the one calling the CL/EC a "mini-me" trophy, so get it right.

And that Liverpool-flamengo game is a good example of SA vs. Europe but one game is one game.

Collblanc wrote:

sportsczy wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Intercontinental_Cup

In 1981, the supposed team of the century in Liverpool played the best club of SA that year... Zico's Flamengo.  Flamengo embarrassed Liverpool.  It was as if they weren't there.

That game hammered home how far ahead in terms of quality the clubs in Brazil and SA in general were.  European clubs then started to throw money at the best players from over there to make them come to Europe.  

How is 0-3 a emberrasement?
.

3-0 in a final is more then an embaressment

It's really funny how you two defend your idol..

You being 17 proves it all. 3-0 is no shame.

If Messi plays like he played in last 2 games all the time then he doesnt need any world cup to be best ever. Just watching by eyes you can see its impossible to stop him

sportsczy wrote:To be goat you need to win the WC and have goat-level stats.  Not just one or the other.

You're competing against guys who have both.

Well, that's obviously not true. Alfredo di Stéfano never even played in a World Cup, let alone won a World Cup, but he is considered one of the greatest footballers in history. Johan Cruijff never won a World Cup, either. Neither did Michel Platini, George Best, Ferenc Puskás, and Eusébio -- yet they are all considered as some of the best footballers ever.

Pippo wrote:

sportsczy wrote:To be goat you need to win the WC and have goat-level stats.  Not just one or the other.

You're competing against guys who have both.

Well, that's obviously not true. Alfredo di Stéfano never even played in a World Cup, let alone won a World Cup, but he is considered one of the greatest footballers in history. Johan Cruijff never won a World Cup, either. Neither did Michel Platini, George Best, Ferenc Puskás, and Eusébio -- yet they are all considered as some of the best footballers ever.

the goat, not one of the goats.Platini and Di Stefano are considered a level below the usual 2 goat nominees,Maradona and Pele.

I was going to get in the debate again, but i wont, its impossible to debate considering some people just ignore the fact that lifting a WC is the highest place a football player can be at, (its not even debatable) and fans just ignore it for Messi.Messi is already one of the top 3 players of all time, but he isnt the goat.Pele was a ridiculous footballer and won it,Maradona was a ridiculous footballer and won it, Messi is a ridiculous footballer but still hasnt and therefore he is behind them.

inb4 "by that logic Gerd Muller is better than Messi"

sure Nt football does not have the quality it used to have, but the title is the only thing that people will remember of

Ganso wrote:

Pippo wrote:

sportsczy wrote:To be goat you need to win the WC and have goat-level stats.  Not just one or the other.

You're competing against guys who have both.

Well, that's obviously not true. Alfredo di Stéfano never even played in a World Cup, let alone won a World Cup, but he is considered one of the greatest footballers in history. Johan Cruijff never won a World Cup, either. Neither did Michel Platini, George Best, Ferenc Puskás, and Eusébio -- yet they are all considered as some of the best footballers ever.

the goat, not one of the goats.Platini and  Di Stefano are considered a level below the usual 2 goat nominees,Maradona and Pele.

So the only reason that Maradona is generally considered a level higher than di Stéfano is because he won a World Cup, then?

Guys please refrain from making personal comments about other users and debate the ideas, not the people.