DeviAngel wrote:

M99 wrote:Juve fans have go to a whole new level. Next we will read about Marrone being better than Martinez.

Same way as Abate was top 5 in his position ? Or how Boateng was World Class ?

Right, can you please bump a post saying Boateng is world class

And you are still obsessed with Abate He was a forum meme like Podolski and btw a starter for Italy just as we all Milanisti predicted

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Vucinic is not the main target at all

He supported Matri or Giovinco, hence most of his work is normally drifting in or with his back to goal. Not to mention his link up play with Marchisio who makes the runs.

are you really telling me that Matri or Gio were the main targets for Juve? Come on dude. I watched a lot of games due to Pogba. You know that's not true.

M99 wrote:

DeviAngel wrote:

M99 wrote:Juve fans have go to a whole new level. Next we will read about Marrone being better than Martinez.

Same way as Abate was top 5 in his position ? Or how Boateng was World Class ?

Right, can you please bump a post saying Boateng is world class

And you are still obsessed with Abate He was a forum meme like Podolski and btw a starter for Italy just as we all Milanisti predicted

same way as you seem obsessed with my comments the past 2 hours lol

sportsczy wrote:

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Vucinic is not the main target at all

He supported Matri or Giovinco, hence most of his work is normally drifting in or with his back to goal. Not to mention his link up play with Marchisio who makes the runs.

are you really telling me that Matri or Gio were the main targets for Juve?  Come on dude.  I watched a lot of games due to Pogba.  You know that's not true.

actually sports they were

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Mp4krJuventino wrote:

M99 wrote:Higuain Vucinic level

Oh lord just go man just go before you embarass yourself further.

As a player I would definitely say they are the same level but then what they're both good at is completely different (one leaning more on the flair filled creative side and the other a goalscorer) . Vucinic has been the top striker for the best team in Italy and probably in the top 5 of Europe for two straight seasons so I would say at the very least he is at that level.

So the reasoning is: vucinic plays as the main striker for an elite club therefore is elite himself?

Oh dear...

You say this assuming I think Higuain is an elite player, which I don't. He is a great player who can do very well for himself pretty much anywhere he chooses to go. Same as Vucinic.

I prefer him to Vucinic, but they're not on different levels at all


Goal scoring
Higuain definitely edges it

Performances in the CL
Vucinic by a mile

Hold up play and link up play
Vucinic

Dribbling/beating your man
Close. Possibly a narrow Higuain victory here

Vision and creativity
Vucinic definitely


So yeah, if you prefer one or the other that's fine. But there's no way in Hell that Higuain is a level above Vucinic.


Edit:

Yeah that's completely true. Vucinic is our best striker by a mile (Before the new arrivals) but when he plays, he plays off of the likes of Matri, Giovinco/whoever happens to be rotated in

He's the main man in terms of getting a game, but the likes of Matri aren't capable of being anything other than the man leading the line. He doesn't have the ability to drop back without losing the ball

sportsczy wrote:

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Vucinic is not the main target at all

He supported Matri or Giovinco, hence most of his work is normally drifting in or with his back to goal. Not to mention his link up play with Marchisio who makes the runs.

are you really telling me that Matri or Gio were the main targets for Juve?  Come on dude.  I watched a lot of games due to Pogba.  You know that's not true.

Was a support striker for most of the 11-12 season.

Last season we bought Giovinco but Vucinic-Giovinco proved to be a failure combination hence we alternated between Vucinic-matri and vucinic-Quag last season.What Tom said is perfectly right.

He is a linkup man than the main target.

DeviAngel wrote:

something-red wrote:

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Not everybody rates Higuain as some sort of fantastic world beater.

And that includes Real Madrid who 'made my son feel unwanted' in the words of Higuains Dad.

Face it, he's a very good, talented striker. But not on this elite level like people are suggesting here.

He's choked in big games all his RM life, not to say he hasn't had some good big game performances. But you'd expect that, he's also had plenty of terrible ones.

He's definitely not elite. But he is very very good. And he is better than Vucinic...

What I am trying to say all the time good player not World Class and not worth 37 mil, if he was Arsenal would have payed for him long ago

He went for stupid money, yes.

To suggest he's on the same level as Vucinic is just wrong.

He is close to world class. And he's still at an age to be world class as he's approaching his prime.

He might eventually become WC

But we're talking about present times. And presently he's on the same level as Vucinic. Possibly better. But not on a different level.

When I think of a different level to those two I think about the Cavani's of the world.

That's 3 tiers then.

Cavani in tier 1.
Higgy in tier 2.
Vucinic in tier 3.

something-red wrote:

DeviAngel wrote:

something-red wrote:

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Not everybody rates Higuain as some sort of fantastic world beater.

And that includes Real Madrid who 'made my son feel unwanted' in the words of Higuains Dad.

Face it, he's a very good, talented striker. But not on this elite level like people are suggesting here.

He's choked in big games all his RM life, not to say he hasn't had some good big game performances. But you'd expect that, he's also had plenty of terrible ones.

He's definitely not elite. But he is very very good. And he is better than Vucinic...

What I am trying to say all the time good player not World Class and not worth 37 mil, if he was Arsenal would have payed for him long ago

He went for stupid money, yes.

To suggest he's on the same level as Vucinic is just wrong.

He is close to world class. And he's still at an age to be world class as he's approaching his prime.

It might be stupid to compare them for some but not for me mate, and we are talking about present not future, in future Giovinco might be world class ( yeah right )

That's where your wrong.

Higgy actually has the talent to be WC. He just hasn't had consistent game time to show it. Massive difference.

No, to me if somebody is slightly better they're not on another level

Otherwise you're suggesting that everybody in Tier 1 is equal

Everybody in tier 2 is equal etc etc


Let's put it this way. Personally I'd put both players in the same tier. But Higuain would be approaching the top of the tier whilst Mirko would not.

But they are definitely close enough to be compared. Even if the comparison mostly leads to 'Higuain is better'

Which is fine. But he's not good enough to be on some whole other level than Vucinic. At least not up until this point.

something-red wrote:That's where your wrong.

Higgy actually has the talent to be WC. He just hasn't had consistent game time to show it. Massive difference.

as I said I was talking about present time not the future

Also, Higuain has had 30 CL starts, this myth that he makes about 5 apps a season has to die

He has plenty of chances to shine, but he chokes in big games and loses his spot. That's HIS fault. Not anybody elses.

something-red wrote:That's 3 tiers then.

Cavani in tier 1.
Higgy in tier 2.
Vucinic in tier 3.

He is definitely better than Vucinic but you are going overboard with placing vucinic a tier under Higuain.

Whats your 'criteria' if i may ask ?

I'm not sure if I agree with the price yet, I'm inclined to say napoli overpayed, but other than falcao who do you guys rate as a better poacher?

Surag wrote:

something-red wrote:That's 3 tiers then.

Cavani in tier 1.
Higgy in tier 2.
Vucinic in tier 3.

He is definitely better than Vucinic but you are going overboard with placing vucinic a tier under Higuain.

Whats your 'criteria' if i may ask ?

Tier 1 = world class
Tier 2 = potentially world class
Tier 3 = solid but not at the "top" level

I don't see him as a poacher tbh

But if I did then Falcao, Mario G, Cavani (at times) definitely

But we're talking about all types of strikers here. And that includes the others such as Vucinic.

So in the present day I think both of them are in the tier below the truely WC talents.

What end of the tier you put them in is up to you.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I'm not sure if I agree with the price yet, I'm inclined to say napoli overpayed, but other than falcao who do you guys rate as a better poacher?

Gomez went for around 15m didn't he?

Can only really think of Mario Gomez and the Manc Hernandez from the top of my head to be fair.

Even if you're the linkup guy, it doesn't mean that you're not the primary target of an attack. It just means you're not a targetman CF.

Vucinic was definitely "the man" of the frontline for Juve to me. His movements were that of an SS.

This is about the present though, there are hundreds of 16 year olds out there with the 'potential' to be world class, but none of them should be ranked in the present day because of unfulfilled potential.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I'm not sure if I agree with the price yet, I'm inclined to say napoli overpayed, but other than falcao who do you guys rate as a better poacher?

Well Gomez's record is undeniable.Although i'm not that big a fan of his.

Again, the only thing restricting Higuain from being world class is the lack of game time.

He already has the talent. He just needs consistent game time to show the world he actually is world class.

None of the elite CFs these days are poachers because it's their ability to do different things that makes them elite. Even when Gomez was scoring 40 goals, most wouldn't classify him as elite.

Modern game has evolved to the point where the CF role is becoming either a SS/CF or a winger/CF.

He's had plenty of time for RM. Like I said he's started in 30 CL games. That's more starts than plenty of strikers will ever have in the CL

Let me put it this way, in 3 seasons time if Higuain actually starts to score for fun as well as impress in Europe i'll gladly rate him in the top tier of strikers

But rating people on potential which hasn't been fulfilled is just wrong.

I don't see a 19 year old kid tipped to be 'the next Messi' and automatically put him above strikers who have actually performed at the top level.

Potential is... well it's just that. Potential. When rating players of what they've done SO FAR, it doesn't really come into play.