Re: [BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

by dostoevsky Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:13 am

A friend suggested to me this morning that the scene with the frozen throne could potentially represent not the White Walkers but the revenge of the Starks in what ends up as a pyrrhic, meaningless victory.

by M99 Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:08 pm

McLewis wrote:
M99 wrote:I think the show pretty much confirmed Margaery was in on the plot to poison Joffrey too?

https://imgur.com/a/2DtPH

Interesting, but I'm still not so sure. What do the Tyrells have to gain from poisoning Joffrey before he and Margaery could consummate their marriage? They're basically back at step 1 at the moment as the Lannisters retain power through Tommen (basically Cersei & Tywin).

This is from Ice and Fire Wiki.

Littlefinger suggests that Olenna killed Joffrey to spare her granddaughter Margaery from the same cruelty the boy showed Sansa and to prevent her hot-tempered grandson Loras from becoming a kingslayer in case he, while serving in the Kingsguard, had to witness the king mistreating his sister. Littlefinger also shares how he planted disturbing rumors about Joffrey's character while he was at Highgarden, prompting Lady Olenna's questioning Sansa when they first met. According to Littefinger, Olenna knew Mace dreamed of his daughter Margaery becoming queen and for that they needed a king, but they did not need Joffrey, as Margaery could also marry his brother Tommen.

by Le Samourai Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:38 pm

When people realize the full extent of what Littlefinger has done at the end of this season.....

by dostoevsky Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:01 am

People are going to love Littlefinger when it dawns on them just how amazingly manipulative he is. Also, he has simply the best lines in the show.

"Only one...Cat." *shoves through skydoor*

Best ending to a book yet rofl

by RealGunner Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:14 am

lmao I loved that part.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:35 am

World of Ice and Fire Sample released:

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/world-of-ice-and-fire-sample/

by RealGunner Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:37 am

Can't wait for it to come out.

by dostoevsky Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:44 am

As cool a sample as that was, I'd much rather that he be working on, you know, finishing ASOIAF first. Laughing

by RealGunner Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:47 am

I think he has some other people helping him write the Ice and Fire sample. Also I remember him saying that he has put down everything behind and is fully working on TWOW.

btw Have you read The Tales of Dunk and Egg? If not then read them as they are fantastic. Gives a great idea of Lord bloodraven along with the history of Targaryens and other houses.

by dostoevsky Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:50 am

I haven't but shall do, thanks for the recommendation.

by M99 Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:43 am

I am amazed at the number of Unsullied who thinks Cersei poisoned Joffrey. Everything Cersei has done is to ensure that her children rule the Seven Kingdoms. She loves them more than she loves anything and yet they still think Cersei poisoned Joffrey?

by RealGunner Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:26 pm

Let them be misguided Proud

I think only 1-2 have actually thought about littlefinger. So that is going to be a shocker.

by M99 Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:06 pm

http://www.ign.com/wikis/game-of-thrones/Breaker_of_Chains_Differences

Jaime raping Cersei :facepalm:

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:25 pm

In the book it turned consensual by the end, but in the show it cut the scene before that point. HBO probably didn't want to deal with the pr disaster that a semi consentual rape would bring.

by M99 Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:29 pm

In the book Cersei first did not want to do it out of fear of getting caught but that lasted like two seconds, in the show it looked like full on rape. I never once though about rape after reading that part in the book but seeing the show version, it screamed full on rape.

by RealGunner Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:28 pm

When I read it, it did sound very forced because she kept saying no. But for a different reason of course.

I think this is better this way because Cersei and Jaime were never the same after that incident and they can turn it to that direction with this scene. Not much harm done.

But the episode overall was very different. Is Danys going to send Jorah and Barristan down the sewer tunnels? Doesn't look like it.

Also can't see Strong Belwas in the show. Daario might take his role permanently.

Hound and the Arya scenes are all going to be made up from now on I think. Maybe this is important for the future books.

by Swanhends Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:20 am

GRRM is such a dickhead :facepalm:

. Wasting time publishing a bunch of puff-pieces while making people wait two decades for the series to actually finish :facepalm:

by Le Samourai Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:07 am

Swanhends wrote:GRRM is such a dickhead . Wasting time publishing a bunch of puff-pieces while making people wait two decades for the series to actually finish

Very good chance he dies while writing the final book Laughing

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:09 am

My reaction to the last book will be "Oh, they did that different in the show"

by RealGunner Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:38 am

LMFAO BC

tbf GRR Martin has said that he has given up on every other project and is completely focusing on TWOW. That Ice n Fire encyclopaedia is being written by 2 other people and is finished anyways.

Also I agree with bhends about Daario. While the scene was badass, Daario looks like a drunk hobo compared to the last season's one where he at least looked like Sepiroth which was nice hmm

They are completely ruining Jon Snow as well. He gets no character development time at all in the show. People thinks he is just a scrub while he is most likely going to be the one who saves the whole realm.

Along with Stannis. They are making him look like a pos who gives no f about anyone else.

by dostoevsky Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:36 am

Haven't seen the latest episode, will comment on it later.

Is anyone familiar with this theory about Jon being Lightbringer in the Azor Ahai Reborn tale?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/103266-r-l-lightbringer-updated-with-part-ii/

Edit: Just checked and the theory is 17,000 words long, so not expecting instant answers. Laughing

by M99 Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:21 am

George R R Martin wrote:I think the "butterfly effect" that I have spoken of so often was at work here. In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.

The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.

Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.

If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.

That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.

by RealGunner Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:04 pm

dostoevsky wrote:Haven't seen the latest episode, will comment on it later.

Is anyone familiar with this theory about Jon being Lightbringer in the Azor Ahai Reborn tale?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/103266-r-l-lightbringer-updated-with-part-ii/

Edit: Just checked and the theory is 17,000 words long, so not expecting instant answers.

I think the nightswatch is the lightbringer. If not then it's the sword Ser Arthur Dayne carried.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:21 pm

I personally think all the prophesies are merely efforts at worldbuilding and don't really dictate where the plot will go. The large majority of them will go unfulfilled.

by RealGunner Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:30 pm

I read that link Dost.

I don't agree with it. I think it's a lot of fan fiction and not enough evidence. The whole theory can fit with many other characters. However if Jon really is the lightbringer, than Azor Ahai is surely Danys. That is the only way it would make sense. But i still think lightbringer is the nightswatch if we are talking about it in a personification way. Otherwise it's 'Dawn' that belongs to the Dayne family.

by RealGunner Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:35 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I personally think all the prophesies are merely efforts at worldbuilding and don't really dictate where the plot will go. The large majority of them will go unfulfilled.

It's what Zealous said in the other GoT thread. There are three different prophecies and visions. Brans, Daenerys and Melisandre's. Bran believes in the 7 while Melisandre believes in Rhllor. Daenerys seems to worship anything.

Both Bran's gods and Melisandre's gods seem to be equally powerful. That's the strange thing.

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