Re: Pep: Messi best defender in the world

by Kamikaze692 Sat May 04, 2013 5:43 pm

Hmm, come to think of it, it seems like a cryptic message to the Barça defence - "u guys are so f*ckd, even Mehssi here is the best defender in the world compared to you" eco smile

by Niyameddin Sat May 04, 2013 5:48 pm

Messi is very intelligent and agile. he is the best ball stealing player i ever seen (if he presses). i'm not talking about this season after he won 4 ballon dor and became lazy. i'm talking about previous years. If he presses he is deadly, great acceleration, agile, great gravity and intelligent. he can steal ball from you

he has some goals after stealing the ball, i forgot which ones but numbers are surely more than any striker's numbers.

Even this season i have seen moments when messi pressing opposite players gets confused and kick the ball out. i have seen it many many times. its because he accelerates very quickly and can change his direction faster than anyone, so you should be very careful if messi is pressing

but he can not be a right back now. if he was 16-17 years old you could easily turn him into a Lahm type player

by Niyameddin Sat May 04, 2013 5:56 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Truely GOAT players can play any position, I think that's actually well known fact in football world. And Messi would be easily the best left back, if he played there. Doesn't even need a debate.

Brb plays AM against Germany and gets destroyed (Plays False 9 against Bayern Munich and gets destroyed too. so whats your point? )

Brb takes until 2012 to perform for his country (if you think goals = performance)

Brb forces Ibra out of the club so he can have the team built around him (Ibra was too slow for Barca and slowed down every attack)

Brb moved from the wing because big teams have started to stifle him very easily (in center he is more useful, and barca needed a player like messi to built game around)

Brb Barca change set up against Milan in 2nd leg because he didn't have a shot on goal first leg (this was Roura mistake he corrected it in second leg)

Brb Cesc does more than him against Bayern (no idea what your talking about)

Brb ur mad (you are probably one who is mad)

by Doc Sat May 04, 2013 7:15 pm

Was this really an argument? Messi can't play anywhere else except the final third. Hell, he may have a slightly difficult time as a CM. Seriously guys, the man is a legendary footballer but he barely has any defensive capabilities. He can't mark, can't tackle, can't jump that high, he used to close down regularly but that stopped. Place the great man anywhere that needs him to be defensive and you're gonna wonder why Tito/Roura did that.

And quite frankly, I think it's more of an insult to Barcelona's defensive line that anything.

by danyjr Sat May 04, 2013 9:08 pm

Le Samourai wrote:He shits on Ronaldo all day every day - defense , no defense . who cares? - he's a better player, a better scorer, a more talented individual and what not. If maximizing Messi's statistical output (which would be very high regardless of commitment to pressing or not) at the sacrifice of winning games is Barca's objective, so be it - you won't find me shedding any tears.

I don't need any proof. You can look at the league table. At some point Madrid were like 16 points behind Barcelona. Cristiano was integral to Madrid's record breaking La Liga campaign last season. Yet this season, he's barely got 65% of the amount he scored last season. Nowhere as sharp this season, I don't think he'll even be nominated for Ballon d'or shortlist this season. But good job on, erm, tracking back. Rolling Eyes

Le Samourai wrote:But being given that privilege and then quietly sitting on the bench when his team needs him most? That' won't cut it.

What are you trying to say? He wasn't selected because he's poor? Laughing

He was injured, out of form and it was decided he was unnecessary to play in a match which was all but over in the first leg.

by izzy Sat May 04, 2013 9:17 pm

danyjr wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:He shits on Ronaldo all day every day - defense , no defense . who cares? - he's a better player, a better scorer, a more talented individual and what not. If maximizing Messi's statistical output (which would be very high regardless of commitment to pressing or not) at the sacrifice of winning games is Barca's objective, so be it - you won't find me shedding any tears.
I don't need any proof. You can look at the league table. At some point Madrid were like 16 points behind Barcelona. Cristiano was integral to Madrid's record breaking La Liga campaign last season. Yet this season, he's barely got 65% of the amount he scored last season. Nowhere as sharp this season, I don't think he'll even be nominated for Ballon d'or shortlist this season. But good job on, erm, tracking back.

Le Samourai wrote:But being given that privilege and then quietly sitting on the bench when his team needs him most? That' won't cut it.

What are you trying to say? He wasn't selected because he's poor? He was injured, out of form and it was decided he was unnecessary to play in a match which was all but over in the first leg.

What are you talking about?

He's got 53 goals this season, compared to the 60 he got last season. scratch

by danyjr Sat May 04, 2013 9:18 pm

Liga goals.

by izzy Sat May 04, 2013 9:20 pm

danyjr wrote:Liga goals.

Ahhh, fair enough. Thumbs up

by juvealbanian Sat May 04, 2013 10:39 pm

Also he is the best GK in the world so Barca can replace him with Valdes...

by Harmonica Sat May 04, 2013 11:50 pm

juvealbanian wrote:Also he is the best GK in the world so Barca can replace him with Valdes...

Pep: Messi best defender in the world - Page 3 Messi-goalkeeper-saidaonline

by Le Samourai Sun May 05, 2013 12:36 am

danyjr wrote:
I don't need any proof. You can look at the league table. At some point Madrid were like 16 points behind Barcelona. Cristiano was integral to Madrid's record breaking La Liga campaign last season. Yet this season, he's barely got 65% of the amount he scored last season. Nowhere as sharp this season, I don't think he'll even be nominated for Ballon d'or shortlist this season. But good job on, erm, tracking back.

Hilariously reductionist attempt to isolate Ronaldo's increased defensive effort (something which occurs in a select few larger games) - as the root of our problems. Our problems have been well documented, Ronaldo's fatigue and his consequent ability to score goals are the least of them

danyjr wrote:What are you trying to say? He wasn't selected because he's poor? He was injured, out of form and it was decided he was unnecessary to play in a match which was all but over in the first leg.

.
It's funny. Down against Athletic Bilbao he's perfectly fit, perfectly capable of playing. But against Bayern where the odds off success are less favorable? He's injured - except he's not. His coach said so. Nope, he deems it exorbitant to even attempt to help his team. By not playing, he hung his team out to dry and sealed their faith and initiated their later humiliation. A team that has given him everything. That's unacceptable for all players, but for one of his caliber - it's disgraceful.

by kiranr Sun May 05, 2013 12:50 am

He was on the bench against Bilbao too. Tito put him out when we were down by only 1 goal into the second half.

I am pretty sure if we were 2-0 up into the second half against Bayern, Tito would have played Messi.

by Le Samourai Sun May 05, 2013 12:53 am

kiranr wrote:
He was on the bench against Bilbao too. Tito put him out when we were down by only 1 goal into the second half.

I am pretty sure if we were 2-0 up into the second half against Bayern, Tito would have played Messi.

That's not how it works. You don't put in your best player if you have a chance. Your best player gives you a chance.

by kiranr Sun May 05, 2013 12:59 am

Le Samourai wrote:
kiranr wrote:
He was on the bench against Bilbao too. Tito put him out when we were down by only 1 goal into the second half.

I am pretty sure if we were 2-0 up into the second half against Bayern, Tito would have played Messi.

That's not how it works. You don't put in your best player if you have a chance. Your best player gives you a chance.

Sure, i am not trying to defend Messi or anyone else. I am just pointing out the probable thought process Tito had.

But, i agree with you on the broad point. Inspite of all the noise that was made prior to the second leg, the post game comments sounded too defeatist which probably indicates they were resigned to defeat all through out. The lack of Messi on the pitch points that out too.

by danyjr Sun May 05, 2013 1:18 am

Le Samourai wrote:Hilariously reductionist attempt to isolate Ronaldo's increased defensive effort (something which occurs in a select few larger games) - as the root of our problems. Our problems have been well documented, Ronaldo's fatigue and his consequent ability to score goals are the least of them

First of all, without Ronaldo Madrid wouldn't even win La Liga last season, let alone breaking the record. He is the main man and proof is every time he plays well, you win and every time he plays shit you flop. This is pretty much the most "well documented" evidence we have here. Second, the added responsibility of defending has contributed to his lack of sharpness when attacking. Not a theory, a biological fact.

Le Samourai wrote:It's funny. Down against Athletic Bilbao he's perfectly fit, perfectly capable of playing. But against Bayern where the odds off success are less favorable? He's injured - except he's not. His coach said so. Nope, he deems it exorbitant to even attempt to help his team. By not playing, he hung his team out to dry and sealed their faith and initiated their later humiliation. A team that has given him everything. That's unacceptable for all players, but for one of his caliber - it's disgraceful.

Messi perfectly fit against Athletic :facepalm:

I guess that is why he's been on the bench for the past 2-3 weeks and likely to be on the bench against Betis too. Rolling Eyes

by Le Samourai Sun May 05, 2013 1:35 am

danyjr wrote:
First of all, without Ronaldo Madrid wouldn't even win La Liga last season, let alone breaking the record. He is the main man and proof is every time he plays well, you win and every time he plays shit you flop. This is pretty much the most "well documented" evidence we have here. Second, the added responsibility of defending has contributed to his lack of sharpness when attacking. Not a theory, a biological fact.

I honestly have no time for this:

(i) Ronaldo was delegated with the responsibility of defending in specific games where it was both necessary and beneficial. We did not ask him to defend every minute of every game for the entire season. In the games we did employ this tactic - it payed dividends.

(ii)Ronaldo has been the least of our problems. His output is highly dependent on the form of particular players (Ozil,Di maria, Benzema) - all of whom have extended spells of poor form this season.

(iiI)Despite their logical correctness, I'm forced to conclude from the irrelevance of your arguments that you don't watch Madrid consistently...and therefore - not worth any more of my time.

PS : Zubizaretta indicated he was fit, Ttio indicated he was fit. You don't need to be 100% to be fit to play. Messi himself is no stranger to playing through minor injuries.

by danyjr Sun May 05, 2013 1:55 am

(i) Paid dividend? Surely did against BVB Rolling Eyes

(ii) Thanks for stating the obvious. Unfortunately it didn't have anything to do with the argument.

(iii) Nope Messi was at physio all last week and did light training. Not ready to play a full match. But as you were ignorant enough to undermine his quality as a game changer, I suggest you watch the 20 minutes he played against PSG and transformed Barça wholly. That or watch the other hundred games where he single handedly carried Barcelona.

by FennecFox7 Sun May 05, 2013 3:19 am

Le Samourai wrote:
danyjr wrote:
First of all, without Ronaldo Madrid wouldn't even win La Liga last season, let alone breaking the record. He is the main man and proof is every time he plays well, you win and every time he plays shit you flop. This is pretty much the most "well documented" evidence we have here. Second, the added responsibility of defending has contributed to his lack of sharpness when attacking. Not a theory, a biological fact.

I honestly have no time for this:

(i) Ronaldo was delegated with the responsibility of defending in specific games where it was both necessary and beneficial. We did not ask him to defend every minute of every game for the entire season. In the games we did employ this tactic - it payed dividends.

(ii)Ronaldo has been the least of our problems. His output is highly dependent on the form of particular players (Ozil,Di maria, Benzema) - all of whom have extended spells of poor form this season.

(iiI)Despite their logical correctness, I'm forced to conclude from the irrelevance of your arguments that you don't watch Madrid consistently...and therefore - not worth any more of my time.

PS : Zubizaretta indicated he was fit, Ttio indicated he was fit. You don't need to be 100% to be fit to play. Messi himself is no stranger to playing through minor injuries.

No, he was not fit.

"Messi felt good against Athletic Bilbao, but in the final minutes of the game at San Mames he noticed a strange feeling," Vilanova said.

"He's not injured, but he felt he could pick up an injury.

"Yesterday he trained, and also today ... but he did not feel well. He's an explosive player and he could break. So, maybe he could not help the team."

Words from tito

He is 100% right

If you played football, trust me, you do NOT want to aggravate these types of injuries (i think it was hamstring)

If you do.. have fun letting it come back over and over again

by Harmonica Sun May 05, 2013 2:19 pm

Aggravations are the worst. Iniesta played the UCL-final injured and afterwards basically spent the 09-10 season struggling. Iniesta said the doctors told him he actually risked his career by playing that game.

What Messi did against PSG return leg, 1 week into his hamstring injury is one of the most awe inspiring things I've seen in football. A true testament to Messi's character and hunger to win and help the team, risking his own well being, rest of the season, if not his prime years.

by Zealous Sun May 05, 2013 6:25 pm

Maybe we should sign Messi to compete with Sahin on who can be Marcelo's sub at LB. hmm

by BarrileteCosmico Sun May 05, 2013 7:20 pm

LeSam wrote:It's funny. Down against Athletic Bilbao he's perfectly fit, perfectly capable of playing. But against Bayern where the odds off success are less favorable? He's injured - except he's not. His coach said so. Nope, he deems it exorbitant to even attempt to help his team. By not playing, he hung his team out to dry and sealed their faith and initiated their later humiliation. A team that has given him everything. That's unacceptable for all players, but for one of his caliber - it's disgraceful.

You need to stop talking about what you don't know about. He only played 45 mins vs Bilbao, so clearly he wasn't fit, otherwise he would have started. Tito said that Messi felt a pain after the Bilbao game and due to this he didn't start him because he felt that Messi might "break down" if he had. The plan was obviously to introduce him if we got a goal in the 1st half, but since Robben scored early in the 2nd half there was no point. It wasn't a matter of Messi refusing to help his team - he played injured vs PSG after all - but of Tito exercising some caution.

by Albiceleste Sun May 05, 2013 7:25 pm

You can't play through a hamstring injury, like Tito said, Messi is an explosive player and if he were to try a sprint he would be at a high risk of reinjury or worsening the problem.

Messi is still on the bench even today. To call playing on the safe side of such an injury disgraceful is not something I'd expect from you Le Sam

by jibers Sun May 05, 2013 9:59 pm

Harmonica wrote:Aggravations are the worst. Iniesta played the UCL-final injured and afterwards basically spent the 09-10 season struggling. Iniesta said the doctors told him he actually risked his career by playing that game.

What Messi did against PSG return leg, 1 week into his hamstring injury is one of the most awe inspiring things I've seen in football. A true testament to Messi's character and hunger to win and help the team, risking his own well being, rest of the season, if not his prime years.

this has to stop ffs...

by izzy Sun May 05, 2013 10:05 pm

jibercus wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Aggravations are the worst. Iniesta played the UCL-final injured and afterwards basically spent the 09-10 season struggling. Iniesta said the doctors told him he actually risked his career by playing that game.

What Messi did against PSG return leg, 1 week into his hamstring injury is one of the most awe inspiring things I've seen in football. A true testament to Messi's character and hunger to win and help the team, risking his own well being, rest of the season, if not his prime years.

this has to stop ffs...

Huh?

by FennecFox7 Sun May 05, 2013 11:28 pm

izzy wrote:
jibercus wrote:
Harmonica wrote:Aggravations are the worst. Iniesta played the UCL-final injured and afterwards basically spent the 09-10 season struggling. Iniesta said the doctors told him he actually risked his career by playing that game.

What Messi did against PSG return leg, 1 week into his hamstring injury is one of the most awe inspiring things I've seen in football. A true testament to Messi's character and hunger to win and help the team, risking his own well being, rest of the season, if not his prime years.

this has to stop ffs...

Huh?

A true testament to Messi's character and hunger to win and help the team, risking his own well being, rest of the season, if not his prime years.

datobsession

by Tomwin Lannister Sun May 05, 2013 11:53 pm

I don't know what to say.

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