Today's game was practically showcasing two talk about and obvious arguments:

1. How Barcelona is dependent of Messi, and how completely toothless they were without him against good opposition. With Messi Barcelona were winning 0-1 and looked to steamroll over PSG, but that ended right after Messi got injured, and the roles were practically reversed. Then Messi came on to lift them to the semifinals, again.

2. How NT-football isn't close to quality of club football. Barcelona today were Spain +- Alves and Adriano, most dominant NT-team ever. And they were completely outplayed at their own yard by a money team PSG. Problem in NT-level comes from lack of training, but because Spain is Barca, and they practically train every week, and they have a clear system and gameplan, they can easily edge teams that aren't cohesive enough units, no matter who plays in those teams, even without Messi.

Harmonica wrote:Today's game was practically showcasing two talk about and obvious arguments:

1. How Barcelona is dependent of Messi, and how completely toothless they were without him against good opposition. With Messi Barcelona were winning 0-1 and looked to steamroll over PSG, but that ended right after Messi got injured, and the roles were practically reversed. Then Messi came on to lift them to the semifinals, again.

2. How NT-football isn't close to quality of club football. Barcelona today were Spain +- Alves and Adriano, most dominant NT-team ever. And they were completely outplayed at their own yard by a money team PSG. Problem in NT-level comes from lack of training, but because Spain is Barca, and they practically train every week, and they have a clear system and gameplan, they can easily edge teams that aren't cohesive enough units, no matter who plays in those teams, even without Messi.

Agree on the first point and couldn't disagree more on the second. Spain is so deep it's not even funny. Player played different roles for BArca then they do for Spain.

You can't replace a Sergio Ramos with Adriano. OR Iker Casillas with Valdes. You can't replace Xabi Alonso with another forward player.

Barca can't bring Javi Martinez off the bench to put more steel in the midfield or rotate him to CB if needed,

We can't bring on Llorente if we need some height up front or Torres.

Spain is so much better at the back it's comical. If you listened to the game today I will continue my assault on the useless Victor Valdes, he has like 6 or 8 clean sheets ALL YEAR.

Spain can get a clean sheet in there sleep, in fact that's there specialty.

don't forget Silva, Mata, Cazorla, De Gea, Monreal, Isco, etc. Spain NT is just stacked everywhere other than RB and CF. CB is thin too after Pique and Ramos.

What an idiotic thread. Let's ignore the fact that Barca had to play with 3 fullbacks in defense, that Pedro just came back from an injury, that Villa is long past his prime and that Xavi isn't injury-free since around January and is only playing the big games and has no rythm whatsoever in La Liga.

And international football isn't easy. Otherwise Messi would have more than 0 goals now in his last 2 international tournaments.

NY-football doesn't suck.

You only say that because Finland suck

Harry Redknapp wrote:NY-football doesn't suck.

You only say that because Finland suck

He just says it because Messi never delivered in an international tournament. If Argentina win the World Cup you can be sure he'll be all over that achievement.

Also the PSG best players are Bench players for Italy Varretti and Sirigu

nasir6371 wrote:Also the PSG best players are Bench players for Italy Varretti and Sirigu

Exactly, and how good they make a team with proper training. I mean PSG had Pastore and Lavezzi playing, Argentina's bench players, but in cohesive unit, even they can match and even outplay Spain.

futbol wrote:

Harry Redknapp wrote:NY-football doesn't suck.

You only say that because Finland suck

He just says it because Messi never delivered in an international tournament. If Argentina win the World Cup you can be sure he'll be all over that achievement.

He won Argentina an Olympic Gold. It is an international Tournament and not easy, see Brazil, loaded squad and couldn't take home the Gold.

I dont agree but agree at the same time.

Your first point is correct, but what are you saying? A team who has rightly built around the best player of his time will struggle against the elite in Europe without that peice...well duh...

NT football is of a lower level, there is no question about that to me.

However, this Barca was not Spain. They dont have the options in terms of the whole squad and we dont even play the same way. Spain are there with Alonso and Busquets sitting, with Arbeloa a defensive rightback....its just a different set up.

Also, lets not pretend Spain just steamroll everyone in NT football...they dont.

What is interesting that bench players for Argentina national team (Lavezzi, Pastore) play so great at PSG. Argentina needs a good coach, lets see Sabela can do this

futbol wrote:

And international football isn't easy. Otherwise Messi would have more than 0 goals now in his last 2 international tournaments.

Messi is not just goals. as he showed today. Remember when Del Bosque said Messi was the best player of the World Cup 2010? Coach of the WC champions says Messi was the best. now imagine what it means.

In copa america he was the top assister of the tournament. messi is not just goals...and in a bad organization and system everybody struggles as i showed you example in Lavezzi and Pastore