Bonucci/Barzagli/Chiellini vs Pepe/Ramos/Varane

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Post by Lucifer on Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Chiellini, bonucci and barzagli would defend better with one eye closed and one leg tied back than Mr. brainfart, Mr. Psychopath and Mr. "He is so talented yet hasn't performed jackshit since God knows how much time".

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Post by jibers on Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:20 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:Very, very tough call.

I wanna say the Juventus trio, but I keep thinking about the fact that our CBs get little to no help and have to defend pretty much on their own. We're playing without a DM,  we have a LB who doesn't defend, and don't even get me started on the BBC.

This is why I rate Carvajal so high, the guy protects a whole flank on his own.

I'm not saying the Madrid trio is better but I think in order for the comparison to be sound we need to take all the aforementioned factors into account.

Still, I don't think it would be crazy to choose the Juventus trio. They're just amazing and I completely understand why they're widely seen as the best defensive hedgehog in Europe.


Carvajal defends the flank well because he isn't a ball carrier. Bale also helps him defend so where this whole flank thing comes from is a mystery. Marcelo does defend but he is the only offensive threat in Madrid's best line up on the left. CR stopped ball carrying from deep since 2013, Kroos can't so Marcelo has to attack, leaving gaps. Casemiro was important because he usually allowed Kroos to go a bit closer to the channels and covered the space Marcelo exited. If Marcelo doesnt attack who will from Madrid on that flank? Modric/Kovacic can run and turn under pressure so Carvajal doesn't have to do anything extra. He is a solid full back, nothing more, nothing less.

As for the three BBC is better. Weird comparison as RVP never play in a 3.

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Post by Doc on Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:29 pm

3 years later, Pepe actually could slot into Juve's defensive partnership (or whatever they use nowadays). He is a very good centre back. Ramos is...Ramos. Awful defender but for the big time matches, he is gonna shine. Varane is going through some sort of weird transformation. All the talent in the world to be a top class centre back but just keeps doing weird shit regularly.

So, I guess the Juve trio is still better defensively but I doubt any of them can do the heroics Ramos pulled off for Madrid's 2 UCL titles.

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Post by Ion Creanga on Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:02 am

@Killer wrote:Pepe is much better than all defenders of Juve.

Juve defender are good only in catenaccio with a 3 men in defense and in a midfield very physical, individually they are mediocre .

Chiellini is so overrated, he is dirty, slow and has never been a great marker.
Bonucci has just good feet. Barzagli slow and old. They are defenders who would do shit in such offensive team like Real. Their limits are seen constantly in the national team.


yeah, i mean conceding a total of 1 goal against Germany, Spain and Belgium at Euros ... They must suck really bad
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Post by Killer on Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:37 pm

@Ion Creanga wrote:
@Killer wrote:Pepe is much better than all defenders of Juve.

Juve defender are good only in catenaccio with a 3 men in defense and in a midfield very physical, individually they are mediocre .

Chiellini is so overrated, he is dirty, slow and has never been a great marker.
Bonucci has just good feet. Barzagli slow and old. They are defenders who would do shit in such offensive team like Real. Their limits are seen constantly in the national team.


yeah, i mean conceding a total of 1 goal against Germany, Spain and Belgium at Euros ... They must suck really bad

They have played in the same way  that they play at Juve, 3 defenders, catenaccio, and a physical midfield, even David Luiz can look a great defender in that context. The only match in which they did not play like that was against Ireland and in fact they losed.

Defenders of Juve are similar to that of Atletico the context makes them look so good, put them in a team who play with high defense and we will see if are so good. Individually, all of them are nothing special, none of them is capable of doing work of this kind

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Post by Warrior on Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:41 pm

@Killer wrote:Pepe is much better than all defenders of Juve.

Juve defender are good only in catenaccio with a 3 men in defense and in a midfield very physical, individually they are mediocre .

Chiellini is so overrated, he is dirty, slow and has never been a great marker.
Bonucci has just good feet. Barzagli slow and old. They are defenders who would do shit in such offensive team like Real. Their limits are seen constantly in the national team.




Non-sense from the first word to the last. You never watch Juve and just wanted us to see you riding Pepe's dick.

We play with 3 cbs but we don't park the bus.

Physical midfield ? You talking about the hardest tackler around and our only big guy, Khedira, right ? Or maybe you were referring to the physical monsters Pjanic and Hernanes ?

Chiello and Barzagli are not slow, they just stick to their position because you have Licht and Sandro going back and forth all the time. Both are clever in positioning and rarely get outrunned. But i admit it, they are old. Shame on them.

Won't even bother defending Bonucci since he is the most solid of the trio this season + acts as a regista when needed. What more can he do ? Clean your house and cook you some pasta in the afternoon ?

They have good chemistry, which is essential in order to defend with consistency, and i'm glad to see Benatia performing as well.
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Post by jibers on Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:03 pm

@Killer wrote:
@Ion Creanga wrote:
@Killer wrote:Pepe is much better than all defenders of Juve.

Juve defender are good only in catenaccio with a 3 men in defense and in a midfield very physical, individually they are mediocre .

Chiellini is so overrated, he is dirty, slow and has never been a great marker.
Bonucci has just good feet. Barzagli slow and old. They are defenders who would do shit in such offensive team like Real. Their limits are seen constantly in the national team.


yeah, i mean conceding a total of 1 goal against Germany, Spain and Belgium at Euros ... They must suck really bad

They have played in the same way  that they play at Juve, 3 defenders, catenaccio, and a physical midfield, even David Luiz can look a great defender in that context. The only match in which they did not play like that was against Ireland and in fact they losed.

Defenders of Juve are similar to that of Atletico the context makes them look so good, put them in a team who play with high defense and we will see if are so good. Individually, all of them are nothing special, none of them is capable of doing work of this kind


Context makes anyone look good so that's a strange statement. Players will look better depending on if a team amplifies their strengths and minimises their weaknesses. That's what the job of a coach is.

Why would you put a slow defender in a high line? You are asking for trouble. John Terry is as good as a defender as anyone but he would have struggled in a high line because he was extremely slow. Doesn't mean he wasn't a good defender but within that setting his flaws would be exposed. It's only logical to play hin deeper ergo that means you have to play deeper as a team.

There is no one size fits all.

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