Re: Top 5 Best Wingers

by Onyx Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:04 pm

FM doesn't have goalscoring wingers either.

Anyway all this 'Ronaldo is a winger, isn't a winger' etc is about personal interpretations. There's no fact or common sense about it. Some people may see him as a winger, some may not. People may have different opinions on what a winger was or is currently.

Not everyone has to see football positions in the same way. Just because some people don't see football positions/roles in a certain way, doesn't mean they're wrong or not using common sense.

by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:39 pm

Yeah, no its not.

If this is open to interpretation than the very basis of defence, midfield and attack is.

The Nature Boy wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:
The Franchise wrote:The role dictates what you do

FIFA talk if I ever seen it.

No, what you do and what your coach tells you do to dicates what "position" and what "role" people (commentary for example) say you play.

You have it completely backwards.

The coach tells the players what to do, but there's still a general name for the role. Obviously there isn't going to be a role name for every footballer in the World.

for example though, spanish speaking countries in central and south america have more specific names for roles on the pitch such as enganche and contención (enganche = #10 and contención = ball winner/combative midfielder). Now you can be an enganche and play towards one side... you don't need to play right up the middle. You can be a ball winning MF but not have to play in the middle.

You can't be a right midfielder, right back, right winger (notice the word winger) and play primarily in the center, nor can you primarily drift. The wide positions are usually not up for debate with that. The central positions can. Del Piero in his early days at Juve especially is about as typical a #10 as you get, but he didn't play right through the middle. his trade mark was drifting in from left-center and curling one into the top right corner. Del Piero occupied a lot of time on the left side. So did Nedved. Neither of which are wingers. Why? because they didn't play that position or fill the role of being a winger, just like ronaldo doesn't.

Good stuff there, perfect sense.

One thing which came to me earlier.

Henry is his Arsenal days.

His position on the pitch is very similar to that of that of Cristiano, sometimes on the left, mostly in goalscoring positions or in that triangle pocket of space between rightback, centerback and midfielder.

Not a single person on the planet called Henry a winger for Arsenal.

by The Nature Boy Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Well, similarly enough, he was a left winger for Juventus. Sounds similar to Ronaldo at Man U.

When Henry went to arsenal they positioned him in the best place to exploit his speed, incisive runs, his insane shooting ability and his amazing technique.

Lesser attributes when compared to some, and better in others, the situation with Ronaldo from MU to Madrid is very similar.

by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:44 pm

Yeah, very true, very similar paths positionally.

by The Nature Boy Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:48 pm

and Thanks, BTW Very Happy

by Onyx Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:27 pm

I can't remember much, but Henry used to start as a striker, then moved to the LW area, so he's still a striker.

Ronaldo however starts on the wing, then moves to goalscoring positions. I'm sure heatmaps etc from his time at Real Madrid would show Ronaldo is mainly towards the left side of the pitch.

by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:11 pm

Nope, they played in the same spaces.

He "started" as a striker only on paper.

Your heatmaps have already been dismissed like 5 pages ago.

by Onyx Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:05 pm

Here's Ronaldo's heatmap vs Celta Vigo:

Top 5 Best Wingers - Page 8 BFBbE0ACEAIBg2a

He's mainly on the left side of the pitch.

by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:57 pm

And Henry heat map wil show much of the same, was he also a winger?

And look how often he is right in the middle of the box in your heatmap...winger Laughing

We already done this part of the arguement btw, you even said yourself that heatmaps show Dani Alves at rightwing...so is he a rightwing?

No of course not.

by Abramovich Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:01 pm

The Franchise wrote:And Henry heat map wil show much of the same, was he also a winger?

And look how often he is right in the middle of the box in your heatmap...winger

We already done this part of the arguement btw, you even said yourself that heatmaps show Dani Alves at rightwing...so is he a rightwing?

No of course not.

Top 5 Best Wingers - Page 8 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLCEQnBfhlelb-ncAqiD9ReJSqheY0RSEYj2L6Ydqz53VAxCJh

Can we move on now, to resolve this Franchise should stop replying to mt and mt should start leaving his house more than once a month.

by Onyx Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:09 pm

The Franchise wrote:And Henry heat map wil show much of the same, was he also a winger?

And look how often he is right in the middle of the box in your heatmap...winger

We already done this part of the arguement btw, you even said yourself that heatmaps show Dani Alves at rightwing...so is he a rightwing?

No of course not.

I don't think the heatmap thing will work in our argument since it works both ways.

Basically a heatmap doesn't fully show what position a player is. E.g. Alves or Ronaldo.

I was just trying to show Ronaldo is on the LW, instead of in the middle all the time.

by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:15 pm

Exactly, as we established on page 5 (I think) heatmap is flawed, not sure why we are bringing it up again.

We know Cristiano isnt in the middle all the time, nobody said that either.

Lets come to a conclusion.

Your point if view is the winger position have evolved and many players can be called wingers, regardless of how often they are not on the wing.

I disagree and say, anyone who you seem to call a "generic winger" is actually the only winger that exists, everyone else is something else.

Seems like thats where the thing is at and im good with leaving it there.

by Onyx Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:25 pm

Yeh that's pretty much correct.

by billy_gr Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:27 pm

by arjun.123 Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:27 pm

Honorable mention : Giggs.
Others which come to my mind are already mentioned but still:
Ribery, Messi (when he played winger), George Best, Cruyff (he played as winger too, right?), Garrincha.
In order :
1.Messi
2.Best
3.Garrincha
4.Cruyff
5.Ribery
Some might disagree on my decision of putting Ribery over Giggs but that's just based on what I saw on my T.V. and Youtube, and moreover opinion varies.

by arjun.123 Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:27 pm

Honorable mention : Giggs.
Others which come to my mind are already mentioned but still:
Ribery, Messi (when he played winger), George Best, Cruyff (he played as winger too, right?), Garrincha.
In order :
1.Messi
2.Best
3.Garrincha
4.Cruyff
5.Ribery
Some might disagree on my decision of putting Ribery over Giggs but that's just based on what I saw on my T.V. and Youtube, and moreover opinion varies.

by The Franchise Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:30 pm

No Cruyff was not a winger, he literally played everywhere in the attacking half.

by arjun.123 Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:37 pm

Then Ribery should be on no.4 and Giggs should sit on no.5.

by Valkyrja Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:49 pm

Messi played as a winger until 22 and he is the best winger ? :facepalm:

by FennecFox7 Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:45 pm

Abramovich wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
Not nessesarily..

Players interchange positions in games, as I said why do wingers specifically have to stay on the wing? they don't..

I don't think you get my point, and I don't get yours. Agree to disagree

Please none of your facts bs. You provided zilch but whatever

Yes and if a players changes positions guess what? Hes not a winger.

Yes, wingers have to stay on the wing...if not, they are not a winger

I get your point, your just incredibly wrong.

Facts? What facts? As I told MT earlier, no facts here, just common sense.

I remember Giggity supposedly playing LWF on fifa pro clubs, yet ended up at RB in our own half trying to call for the ball

Think the problem for MT is that he needs to leave the house more.

Please don't talk about me playing football and you..

if it was in real life I would school you... So stop Laughing

I know how a winger plays, I play there as well as center forward

Anyways case closed tbh, nothings getting agreed upon here.

Damn if I was mt I would be pissed by now. Being called out to 'reference fifa positions'.. lol no respect

by Abramovich Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:08 am

Indeed case closed, to be fair these ain't my words and I've never spoken about my footballing ability but am not the one who confesses that their football brain is lacking and even their coaches tell them :coffee:

inb4 jumping the gun eager beaver too young rashness? Proud

by FennecFox7 Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:22 am

Abramovich wrote:Indeed case closed, to be fair these ain't my words and I've never spoken about my footballing ability but am not the one who confesses that their football brain is lacking and even their coaches tell them inb4 jumping the gun eager beaver too young rashness?

So?

First of all please don't take what I say on xbl seriously Laughing

Second of all I wasn't serious Suspect

Third of all I can't even believe you remember me in pro clubs. That's kind of creepy :coffee:

by CBarca Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:50 am

Please don't talk about me playing football and you..

if it was in real life I would school you... So stop I know how a winger plays, I play there as well as center forward

I'm dying