Attacking fullback just means a fullback who cant defend. Horrific players I have no time for.

The Franchise wrote:To add to Moles list, Coentrao, who started as a winger in fact, but Benfica dont use wingers in that way, so he was quickly converted to leftback.

They use shuttlers, players who need to play as center midfielders one moment, but wingers the next. Di Maria and Ramires being the most famous two.

Vidal does this as well however his responsibilites are much more akin to a true CM, to be sure.

The Franchise wrote:Attacking fullback just means a fullback who cant defend. Horrific players I have no time for.

Not always tbf i would consider Alves one but would you say he can't defend.?

This does ring true a lot of the time but there are many who can defend.

When i use the term attacking fullback i usually term as a fullback who gets forward when ever possible and act as an extra winger in attack.

Obviously the best ones can defend and the dime a dozen ones just can't

The Franchise wrote:Attacking fullback just means a fullback who cant defend. Horrific players I have no time for.

im not so sure I would make that blanket statement. For example, Stephan Lichsteiner is a fullback who can successfully does both, same as Evra. Albeit, their priority is defense. I see what you are saying though. Most attacking FBs are just extra men in the attack. Alves and Maicon were exceptional.

I am traditional though and think that a defender should defend, an attacker should attack, and a midfielder should do both.

With different types of players on the wing nowadays, the word 'winger' can't be taken in a literal sense.

Players like Ronaldo, Silva etc etc do start off on the wing, however they roam around. Again, 'winger' doesn't have to mean someone who runs down and the wing and crosses it in. That's a traditional winger.

There's inverted wingers, left footed wingers on the right, right on the left etc, playmaking wingers like Silva, goalscoring/inside forwards like Ronaldo, Pedro, Villa, Hulk, Reus etc.

In football, players have intricate and defined roles, so positional meanings can't be taken literally imo.

Yohan i think you are talking about where players lineup. The role is the most important thing. Cristiano might lineup wide left but he is certainly not a winger anymore. Rooney is often listed as a CF, but he is an SS/AM now (and a right back )

Players like Bale, Ribery and co. are wingers that play all over the attacking line. are they wingers or are they just 'forwards'? The essential question is what role do they have while playing?

Reading the first 2 pages of this thread, sounds very familiar to another discuss holy virgin mt had with franchise a while back can't tell if troll or serious

The Nature Boy wrote:Yohan i think you are talking about where players lineup. The role is the most important thing. Cristiano might lineup wide left but he is certainly not a winger anymore. Rooney is often listed as a CF, but he is an SS/AM now (and a right back )

Players like Bale, Ribery and co. are wingers that play all over the attacking line. are they wingers or are they just 'forwards'? The essential question is what role do they have while playing?

The role for Ronaldo is to be a goalscorer, the role for Silva is to be a playmaker.

Again, 'winger' doesn't just mean someone who runs down the wing and crosses it in. Someone who does that is called a 'traditional winger'. Ronaldo isn't a 'traditional winger'.

Marcelo can defend. Those who watched him from 2010 every game know that. He isn't great, like Abidal for example, but for a guy who gives so much in attack, he is pretty good.

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Nature Boy wrote:Yohan i think you are talking about where players lineup. The role is the most important thing. Cristiano might lineup wide left but he is certainly not a winger anymore. Rooney is often listed as a CF, but he is an SS/AM now (and a right back )

Players like Bale, Ribery and co. are wingers that play all over the attacking line. are they wingers or are they just 'forwards'? The essential question is what role do they have while playing?

The role for Ronaldo is to be a goalscorer, the role for Silva is to be a playmaker.

Again, 'winger' doesn't just mean someone who runs down the wing and crosses it in. Someone who does that is called a 'traditional winger'. Ronaldo isn't a 'traditional winger'.

no one is saying he isnt. Im arguing the same thing that you are. The distinction im making is that traditional wingers =/= wingers of today. He linesup as a winger (Ronaldo) but hes a forward. Judging by his positioning chart, more of an SS/CF than a LWF.

True, however that's because of the freedom he's allowed in his role. Being a forward/inside forward means he'll be getting into goalscoring positions a lot.

Because there's different roles for wingers nowadays, I think the word 'winger' shouldn't have a literal meaning.

At the end of the day, if a player is asked to lineup in a formation, Ronaldo will appear on the left.

Yohan Modric wrote:True, however that's because of the freedom he's allowed in his role. Being a forward/inside forward means he'll be getting into goalscoring positions a lot.

Because there's different roles for wingers nowadays, I think the word 'winger' shouldn't have a literal meaning.

At the end of the day, if a player is asked to lineup in a formation, Ronaldo will appear on the left.

See, i think it should. But like I said in earlier posts im traditional and a bit stubborn with tactics/formations so i think that roles/positions should be clearly defined

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Attacking fullback just means a fullback who cant defend. Horrific players I have no time for.

Not always tbf i would consider Alves one but would you say he can't defend.?

This does ring true a lot of the time but there are many who can defend.

When i use the term attacking fullback i usually term as a fullback who gets forward when ever possible and act as an extra winger in attack.

Obviously the best ones can defend and the dime a dozen ones just can't

Not of course, I was being flippant.

What I really believe is that fullbacks of great value are those who do both.

I have no love for fullbacks who attack well but are a traffic cone defensively and I have no love for fullbacks who are strong defensively and have no ability with the ball.

Actually, I go further, I dont like the name "attacking" and "defensive" fullbacks..to me those are usually given to fullbacks who suck at one aspect of the game.

You dont think the term winger should be used literally?

Well then your wrong. Yes, your opinion is wrong.

Krasic, Zebina, Martinez, Marchionni, Motta

The Franchise wrote:You dont think the term winger should be used literally?

Well then your wrong. Yes, your opinion is wrong.

How so?

It's not a fact that the word 'winger' has to be used literally.

No, but it is common sense.

Also its not a word, its a term.

Then think how the term is used, why was it even created?

To label an allocated position on the pitch to a player who uses the wings.

If you dont use the wings, your not a winger. Its really that simple.

Why do you think players are called centerback? Because they play at the back and in the center.

Its the same thing.

juveman17 wrote:Krasic, Zebina, Martinez, Marchionni, Motta

Elia, Estifarribia, De Ceglie, Reto Ziegler, Old Salihamidzic

The Franchise wrote:No, but it is common sense.

Also its not a word, its a term.

Then think how the term is used, why was it even created?

To label an allocated position on the pitch to a player who uses the wings.

If you dont use the wings, your not a winger. Its really that simple.

Why do you think players are called centerback? Because they play at the back and in the center.

Its the same thing.

But things change over time. Interpretations change. Football isn't simple.

Centre back's don't have the same freedom as wingers. Wingers can have different roles which allows them to roam around unlike centre backs.

The Nature Boy wrote:

juveman17 wrote:Krasic, Zebina, Martinez, Marchionni, Motta

Elia, Estifarribia, De Ceglie, Reto Ziegler, Old Salihamidzic

Mine is way better

Nope, incorrect.

If a winger roams around and is no longer on the wing, he is no longer a winger.

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:What website are those Ronaldo graphs from?

Also just because he isn't on the wing, doesn't mean he isn't a winger. Wingers can have the license to roam around depending on the role. By wingers I don't mean traditional winger, I just mean a player on the wing, who can have different roles.

IF HE AINT ON THE WING, HE IS NOT A WINGER.

Please stop.

I'm sure that game he was playing center forward

And wingers don't have to stay on the wing rigidly. That's pure bullshit. That's like saying because benzema drops into midfield, he isn't a striker

Now, where does cristiano have most of his first touches? On the wing.

Stuff it.

juveman17 wrote:

The Nature Boy wrote:

juveman17 wrote:Krasic, Zebina, Martinez, Marchionni, Motta

Elia, Estifarribia, De Ceglie, Reto Ziegler, Old Salihamidzic

Mine is way better

Mine are the subs for yours... no one beats marchionni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXi1ToDV1c0
First touch at 1:05.. wow hes on the wing. The next two touches are near the middle, then at 1:47 again, hes on the wing. whoh.

2:24.. no surprise, hes on the wing.

2:31.. hes on the wing yet again!
2:48.. guess where he is?
3:01.. again, guess where ronaldo is
3:26 he is in the middle, that is because a winger CAN DROP in the middle depending on a coaches tactics if the ball is played to the opposite side.
3:42.. again on the wing..
4:07..
4:15.......
4:22
4:30
5:10
5:26.. cuts in and shoots..

According to whoscored.com, CR averages position further to the wing compared to Di Maria, who seems more central.

So is CR more of a winger than Di Maria?

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/684963/MatchReport/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2012-2013-Manchester-United-Real-Madrid

For example.

IMO CR is a winger, and so is Di Maria. Just becouse you get in central positions doesnt mean you're a winger. Like MT says, CR picks up the ball mostly in the wing. He spends his time in the "wing", just like a "wing-er"

I love how two barca fans are arguing with the madrid fans, who watch him week in week out... Give it up.

I'm not a barca fan