Mr Nick09 wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Because Iniesta usually plays CM.

If Silva isn't a winger, then what position does he play? He can't be an attacking midfielder because he doesn't play centrally at AM. I'm not sure where he plays at Man City currently, but this is based on when he has/or does play on the wing.

Again, by winger I don't mean a traditional winger who hugs the touchline and crosses the ball.

what are you talking about dude, you have RAMs, CAMs and LAMs, i think fifa does a pretty good job describing that.

At City he mostly plays Right attacking midfielder, because Yaya is the central attacking midfielder. some other times you will find him on the left.

When malaga deployed their 4222, they effectively used 2 AMs, both with the freedom to roam wide and center, one LAM predominantly on the left, one RAM predominantly on the right.

being positioned on the left or right, doesnt make him a playmaking winger. Just as Ronaldo being positioned on the left, is not a left winger.

come to think of it, natural wingers can only actually play on the bands, they are allergic to playing centrally. That's why, as mole described earlier, most attacking fullbacks today are yesterday's wingers.

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

And btw, not true at all.

Back in the original days of the "outside forward" formations were just arbitary, they basically didnt exist.

Teams played "235" and all 5 forwards played wherever they liked...they simple were called outside forward because on paper, they appeared on the outside.

But what the games, they were not all wingers, just 5 players playing wherever they liked.

Then, just like now, if you were staying on the wingers you are what you might call a winger. Thats the evolution.

For example, Garrincha.in 1958 played in a "424" as a "outside forward"...what it actually was on the field was a lobsided 4231 with Garrincha the only winger on the pitch for Brazil.

I think them supposedly playing all over the pitch was due to their role.

The responsibilities of an outside forward include:

They should always be looking to score: their first option should be to shoot, while their second option should be to find another way to create a goal opportunity for the team.

They must know how to set up some of the attacks in the game: when they run into a shooting angle that is unlikely to become a goal, they must find a way to pass the ball to the middle of the penalty box area allowing the centre forwards to finish the job.

Anyway the 'outside forward' position apparently turned into a 'winger' position. Nowdays the 'winger' position is changing as well. It's just an evolution.

They played all over the pitch because they had no role...in the 40's and earlier football was a free for all.

And no, as I already explained..the outside forward didnt "turn into the winger"...if you cant read, I cant help you.

The first long-term successful formation was first recorded in 1880.[1]

However, in "Association Football" published by Caxton in 1960, the following appears in Vol II, page 432: "Wrexham ... the first winner of the Welsh Cup in 1877 ... for the first time certainly in Wales and probably in Britain, a team played three half backs and five forwards ..."

The 2–3–5 was originally known as the "Pyramid", with the numerical formation being referenced retrospectively. By the 1890s, it was the standard formation in England and had spread all over the world. With some variations, it was used by most top level teams up to the 1940s.
For the first time, a balance between attacking and defending was reached.

When defending, the two defenders (fullbacks), would watch out for the opponent's wingers (the outside players in the attacking line), while the midfielders (halfbacks) would watch for the other three forwards.
The centre halfback had a key role in both helping to organise the team's attack and marking the opponent's centre forward, supposedly one of their most dangerous players.

It was this formation which gave rise to the convention of shirt numbers.

The responsibilities of an outside forward include:
They should always be looking to score: their first option should be to shoot, while their second option should be to find another way to create a goal opportunity for the team.
They must know how to set up some of the attacks in the game: when they run into a shooting angle that is unlikely to become a goal, they must find a way to pass the ball to the middle of the penalty box area allowing the centre forwards to finish the job.

A winger (left wing and right wing) (historically called outside-left and outside-right, or outside forward) is an attacking player who is stationed in a wide position near the touchlines. They can be classified as forwards, considering their origin as the old outside forward who played out on the "wing" (i.e. side of the pitch). They continue to be termed as such in many parts of the world, especially in Latin and Dutch footballing cultures. However, in the Anglo-Saxon world,[clarification needed] they are usually counted as part of the midfield having been pushed back there with the advent of the 4-4-2 formation which gradually rose to prominence in the 1960s, given the role additional defensive duties.

The Franchise wrote:Of course there is something wrong...he isnt playing out wide.

You should be embalmed.

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

And btw, not true at all.

Back in the original days of the "outside forward" formations were just arbitary, they basically didnt exist.

Teams played "235" and all 5 forwards played wherever they liked...they simple were called outside forward because on paper, they appeared on the outside.

But what the games, they were not all wingers, just 5 players playing wherever they liked.

Then, just like now, if you were staying on the wingers you are what you might call a winger. Thats the evolution.

For example, Garrincha.in 1958 played in a "424" as a "outside forward"...what it actually was on the field was a lobsided 4231 with Garrincha the only winger on the pitch for Brazil.

I think them supposedly playing all over the pitch was due to their role.

The responsibilities of an outside forward include:

They should always be looking to score: their first option should be to shoot, while their second option should be to find another way to create a goal opportunity for the team.

They must know how to set up some of the attacks in the game: when they run into a shooting angle that is unlikely to become a goal, they must find a way to pass the ball to the middle of the penalty box area allowing the centre forwards to finish the job.

Anyway the 'outside forward' position apparently turned into a 'winger' position. Nowdays the 'winger' position is changing as well. It's just an evolution.

They played all over the pitch because they had no role...in the 40's and earlier football was a free for all.

And no, as I already explained..the outside forward didnt "turn into the winger"...if you cant read, I cant help you.

Where does it say they did what they like? According to wiki and I'm sure other pages the outside forwards had a role. By roles I meant responsibilities.

The first long-term successful formation was first recorded in 1880.[1]

However, in "Association Football" published by Caxton in 1960, the following appears in Vol II, page 432: "Wrexham ... the first winner of the Welsh Cup in 1877 ... for the first time certainly in Wales and probably in Britain, a team played three half backs and five forwards ..."

The 2–3–5 was originally known as the "Pyramid", with the numerical formation being referenced retrospectively. By the 1890s, it was the standard formation in England and had spread all over the world. With some variations, it was used by most top level teams up to the 1940s.
For the first time, a balance between attacking and defending was reached.

When defending, the two defenders (fullbacks), would watch out for the opponent's wingers (the outside players in the attacking line), while the midfielders (halfbacks) would watch for the other three forwards.
The centre halfback had a key role in both helping to organise the team's attack and marking the opponent's centre forward, supposedly one of their most dangerous players.

It was this formation which gave rise to the convention of shirt numbers.

The responsibilities of an outside forward include:
They should always be looking to score: their first option should be to shoot, while their second option should be to find another way to create a goal opportunity for the team.
They must know how to set up some of the attacks in the game: when they run into a shooting angle that is unlikely to become a goal, they must find a way to pass the ball to the middle of the penalty box area allowing the centre forwards to finish the job.

How outside forwards became/changed/etc to wingers:

A winger (left wing and right wing) (historically called outside-left and outside-right, or outside forward) is an attacking player who is stationed in a wide position near the touchlines. They can be classified as forwards, considering their origin as the old outside forward who played out on the "wing" (i.e. side of the pitch). They continue to be termed as such in many parts of the world, especially in Latin and Dutch footballing cultures. However, in the Anglo-Saxon world,[clarification needed] they are usually counted as part of the midfield having been pushed back there with the advent of the 4-4-2 formation which gradually rose to prominence in the 1960s, given the role additional defensive duties.

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Of course there is something wrong...he isnt playing out wide.

You should be embalmed.

He's starting off wide then cutting in. It's not like he's totally not out wide and only playing in the middle.

His starting point is from RW and from there he does what he likes.

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Of course there is something wrong...he isnt playing out wide.

You should be embalmed.

He's starting off wide then cutting in. It's not like he's totally not out wide and only playing in the middle.

His starting point is from RW and from there he does what he likes.

Except no, he isnt starting out wide and cutting in.

He goes where the space is.

Yohan Modric wrote:What other websites are there? All the information there looks fairly reliable.

Mr Nick09 wrote:No, winger means WINGER, nothing less, nothing more. Navas is a winger, Susaeta is a winger, Valencia is a winger, a year ago, Bale was a winger.

If you step outside of the boundaries of what a winger is supposed to do, you become something else. Like Bale, trying to drift all over the pitch now, focusing on occupying central positions to get himself in better shooting positions. Bale doesnt play like a winger anymore.

If you find Silva positioned on the right with Spain or City, he is not a winger. He is an attacking midfielder positioned right. Playmaking winger doesnt exist MT. As Ronaldo has moved away from being a winger long long ago (bale trying the same ).

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Of course there is something wrong...he isnt playing out wide.

You should be embalmed.

He's starting off wide then cutting in. It's not like he's totally not out wide and only playing in the middle.

His starting point is from RW and from there he does what he likes.

Except no, he isnt starting out wide and cutting in.

He goes where the space is.

But he starts from the RW area. That's his reference point where he drifts off from. Just like Ronaldo, whose reference point is at LW and he moves off from there. They don't just randomly start the match in any position and roam around aimlessly.

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:What other websites are there? All the information there looks fairly reliable.

You know what wikipedia is right?

Why do you need websites? Do it yourself, watch, learn and think for a change instead of relying on theory and FIFA.

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:What other websites are there? All the information there looks fairly reliable.

You know what wikipedia is right?

Why do you need websites? Do it yourself, watch, learn and think for a change instead of relying on theory and FIFA.

Because I'm not really interested in watching several matches from the 1880's to find out whether players played all over the place or not.

The Franchise wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Except no, he isnt starting out wide and cutting in.

He goes where the space is.

But he starts from the RW area. That's his reference point where he drifts off from. Just like Ronaldo, whose reference point is at LW and he moves off from there. They don't just randomly start the match in any position and roam around aimlessly.

There is no starting position..this isnt a 100m race and this isnt FIFA.

Silva goes where the space is...if there is space on the right (which of course there is seeing as City dont use a winger lol) then of course he will go there.


What do you think would happen if City bought Jesus Navas? He would stay on the right and Silva wouldnt be able to move into that space anymore.

And what do you think would happen if Man Citys opponants midfielders took up a position away from the middle? What would happen if they moved off to help another area of the pitch? Silva would and does move into the middle...where the space is.

The Franchise wrote:The role dictates what you do

FIFA talk if I ever seen it.

No, what you do and what your coach tells you do to dicates what "position" and what "role" people (commentary for example) say you play.

You have it completely backwards.

RealGunner wrote:Greatest rivalry since Pele maradona

Yohan Modric wrote:

The Franchise wrote:The role dictates what you do

FIFA talk if I ever seen it.

No, what you do and what your coach tells you do to dicates what "position" and what "role" people (commentary for example) say you play.

You have it completely backwards.

The coach tells the players what to do, but there's still a general name for the role. Obviously there isn't going to be a role name for every footballer in the World.