World Flops Edition: Ricardo Kaka

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Post by Real Kandahar Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:57 am

I wanted to start a thread in this section because it is safe from trolling and or stupid/useless comments, and therefore people can use it to actually gain or share information about things they may know little about.

In World Flops edition, we will discuss some players who used to be World Class but then declined so suddenly OR gradually. We will discuss the reasons behind their decline, and what contributed towards making one of the BEST on the planet, becoming so average?

This time we look at RICARDO KAKA

According to you, what led to his demise?

Questions to take into consideration:

1) When did the downward spiral really begin?
2) What was the biggest reason he lost the skills he had in 2005-06?
3) Why did he never recover?

Please give constructive replies, and not just few words, but give your full view. thanks
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Post by Forza Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:12 am

Just an aside...

I have always thought that a 'flop' was a player who has expectations placed on them upon arrival, but then comprehensively fails to meet those expectations.

So they don't have to ever have been 'world class', 'the best on the planet'. And following on from that, they don't have to have a period of decline to be labelled a flop if they never reached peak in the first place.

Moreover, if you look back at Kaka's career, his time at Madrid will always come second to the illustrious Milan years and his triumph in the 2007 CL. What I'm trying to get at is that Kaka, on the whole, could never be called a flop. Really it's his transfer to Madrid that was a flop.

My archetypal flop would be Quaresma. Moves to Inter for a huge fee with huge expectations to match and completely fails to live up to those expectations.

~~~

Anyway, to answer your questions:

1. He had injury issues at Milan, however the downward spiral didn't really begin until he moved to Madrid.

2. Injuries took away some of his pace and agility, Ozil took away his preferred position on the field, and Mourinho completed it by playing him on the wings and giving him limited playing time.

3. All of those things I mentioned in answer 2 still prevent Kaka from ever getting back to his best. Another career ruined by Madrid's insatiable desire to buy players just for the sake of buying players so that other clubs can't have them and so that Madrid can have 'the best' players, regardless of whether the player fits in with the coach's plans.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:32 pm

Damn, game over. Forza just took literally every word I was going to say and put it right there.

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Post by Mamad Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:44 pm

He was in his way to downfall when we signed him. awful signing by Perez. It was a stupid move to pay 65 million for a player past his prime with injury problems.

I don't agree with Ozil ,Mourinho or Madrid excuse. First season there was no ozil or Mou. Pellegirini used him as starter and he was average at best that season. nothing like a 65 million player or Kaka at his prime.

he is too blame. not others.
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Post by LeBéninois Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:06 pm

Forza said it all.

Well he is not to blame as he was already past his prime . When RM bought him i was pretty sure he wasn't going to be Kaka's 2005-2007. He already have injuries there.

The same would have happened had he stayed at Milan. Plus he played the 2010 WC injuried ... His case is similar to Essien imo
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Post by Real Kandahar Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:07 pm

I understand that injuries may decrease your speed and agility, although was his injury THAT serious? i mean alot of players get injured, but such extreme ramifications are rare unless you break your leg or fracture your knee. So could you guys elaborate on that?

Also, second question, there are many players who, due to natural reasons, when they get old loose their pace, but they never lose their positional intelligence, Passing intelligence and or other playmaking creativity... Pirlo, Xavi, are prime example of this, as both are 32+ and not fast, but are making world class contribution despite not being as agile or fast when they were in theire 20s... SO, why does KAKA not show some of his past intelligence whenever he is given a chance, and please don't say he is not, because last season and beginning of this season, he got played in many games.

Looking forward to hear from you all.
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Post by Lupi Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:33 pm

Very Happy most Brazilians decline earlier than European or any other nationalities ,ronaldinho , robinho , adriano, cicinho and so on
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Post by Casciavit Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:54 pm

Real Kandahar wrote:I understand that injuries may decrease your speed and agility, although was his injury THAT serious?

Yes his injuries were quite serious.

i mean alot of players get injured, but such extreme ramifications are rare unless you break your leg or fracture your knee. So could you guys elaborate on that?

Gladly will, well back in the 08/09 season, Kaka had a few knee problems, and he also had an ankle injury in the same season. Then back in 2010, he was out for about 4 months with Madrid due to a knee injury that required surgery. Age is also a factor that should be taken into account.

Also, second question, there are many players who, due to natural reasons, when they get old loose their pace, but they never lose their positional intelligence, Passing intelligence and or other playmaking creativity...

Kaka was a player that relied heavily on athleticism. He is known as one of the greatest counter-attackers of the game in his prime. His pace was very important to his game play. That was his main asset. Kaka did have good playmaking, but it was his pace that was really important. He's also not being deployed in his best position.

Pirlo, Xavi, are prime example of this, as both are 32+ and not fast, but are making world class contribution despite not being as agile or fast when they were in theire 20s

Pirlo and Xavi never relied on their pace as much as Kaka did. Kaka is a SS/AM , while Xavi and Pirlo are both Cm's. Pirlo and Xavi are also players that play in a system that suits them perfectly.

SO, why does KAKA not show some of his past intelligence whenever he is given a chance, and please don't say he is not, because last season and beginning of this season, he got played in many games.

Kaka's main asset was his athleticism. There is this common misconception that hes a tempo-setting player, when hes not. Its hard to show your past intelligence, when your main quality has been severely reduced, due to injuries, and age. He's also low on confidence, since he's a sub, and hes being played out of position.



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Post by The Franchise Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Of course his injury was serious...how you not seen him run now compared to before? Nowhere near as fast.

In some cases a broken leg isnt as bad, dont take for granted how an injury sounds...its about what it does to you.

Comparing Kaka to a Xavi is bad also, Xavi was never fast and doesnt need it. Kaka is an explosive player who beats peple in the final third...if he dont have the explosiveness what can he do?

Watch when Cristiano gets on his years, he will fall off very dramatically because he is so reliant on it.

Epoto wrote: Very Happy most Brazilians decline earlier than European or any other nationalities ,ronaldinho , robinho , adriano, cicinho and so on

Terrible myth. Cicinho was never good to begin with.

Basically what your talking about is 3 players?

And Robinho barely fell off...so its like 2.5?
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Post by Real Kandahar Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:42 pm

kaka showed a glimpse of his old self today
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:47 pm

He was a freak of nature in his prime, especially in 2005. He literally had everything you want from a footballer.
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Post by Real Kandahar Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:25 pm

can't a training regime give him at least a huge amount of his speed back?
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Post by FennecFox7 Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:19 am

At this age? Sadly very unlikely. Sad
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Post by Zealous Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:48 pm

Keep in mind when Perez was signing every big player under the sun the CL final was at the Bernabeu. We only had one summer to get a new project into a CL final. I don't blame Perez for making that gamble because it was worth trying.

Anyway Kaka has been terrible overall and you can blame Madrid all you want but there is no excusing poor touches, poor passes and little work rate regardless of whatever system you employ.

Ozil, the now more superior player basically kept him out of the side and rightfully so. I'm glad the club put it's belief in a young rising star over a washed up has been who barely tries to earn his salary. I feel sorry for him sometimes but then I remember how bad he was against Bayern and all those feelings melt away.
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Post by Zealous Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:53 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Watch when Cristiano gets on his years, he will fall off very dramatically because he is so reliant on it.

I'd wager a player is more likely to deteriorate physically if he had extensive history of HGH use (long term side effects and all that Wink )

It should be interesting how Ronaldo deals with it but a part of me is convinced he can keep it up considering his ridiculous fitness. Even then his runs and understanding of offensive positioning could mean he could switch to a centre forward when he can't be a wide player any more.



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Post by The Sanchez Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:38 am

Real Kandahar wrote:I understand that injuries may decrease your speed and agility, although was his injury THAT serious? i mean alot of players get injured, but such extreme ramifications are rare unless you break your leg or fracture your knee. So could you guys elaborate on that?

Also, second question, there are many players who, due to natural reasons, when they get old loose their pace, but they never lose their positional intelligence, Passing intelligence and or other playmaking creativity... Pirlo, Xavi, are prime example of this, as both are 32+ and not fast, but are making world class contribution despite not being as agile or fast when they were in theire 20s... SO, why does KAKA not show some of his past intelligence whenever he is given a chance, and please don't say he is not, because last season and beginning of this season, he got played in many games.

Looking forward to hear from you all.

Please don't rely your argument of lack of pace with comparing to players who dont neccessarily need pace to play their positions. Kaka plays in a completely different position to Pirlo and Xavi and pace is needed to play in the positions Mou wants him to play. You need pace to play AM/SS/Winger positions.
Kaka hasn't performed to his best because he doesn't get many minutes on the pitch because of the superiority of Ozil and when he does play, he plays on the wing in which he flops because of the lack of pace.

In saying that, Kaka is just another example of Madrid's insatiable desire to buy players just for the sake of buying players so that other clubs can't have them and so that Madrid can have 'the best' players, regardless of whether the player fits in with the coach's plans as Forza said.
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