Top 3 AM's ?

Mr Nick09 wrote:a matter of form and all the guys you mentioned ahead are in better form.

but i think on form, Iniesta, Silva and Ozil are a notch ahead of the rest

the question was at the moment, and atm Fabregas and Iniesta are the best by far. Hard to discern anyone past that.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I'm not so sure about Silva Nick, he's great don't get me wrong but i think theres an argument to say that Mata, Kroos, Gotze and Fabregas are at least on his level.

I'll agree on Iniesta and Ozil though, having said that i think all 4 of the names i mentioned can reach similar levels.

Well maybe not Iniesta level because he really is above everyone but Ozil levels are not out of the question.

Also yes Isco is approaching this list at a rapid rate.

All those guys are great to be honest, what i find interesting is that they almost play nothing alike, except maybe Iniesta and Silva.

I am actually surprised that you are doubting Silva tho, he is fantastic. not as good as last season overall, sure, but his quality and his ability to run city is still top notch.

mata, cesc, gotze ozil, silva, kroos all the same potential for greatness, just depends which kind of AM you need for your system.

I posted something like that on our board last year and ranked them by brackets, i would put those guys in the same bracket with Iniesta, although he is the most successful.

if i am looking for playmaker/talisman however, which is the quality i often associate with my AM, guys like Gotze starts dropping off the list. If you look for pure talent, Silva is as skilled as it gets, except he cant shoot

As i said i think Silva is great ( maybe he's held back by the City system) i don't know but i look at all those players and i don't see a massive difference between the lot of them.

As you said they are all very different and depends what type you want but i don't see a massive difference in ability.

Also i'm going to throw a curve ball here..... but i think Totti should at least be given an honorary mention as he has been rolling back the years this season and performing outstandingly well while probably being the best or one of the best players in Serie A.

I agree with what you said about playmaking btw, but its a case of what you want you're playmaker to do.... Gotze controls the flow of a game exceedingly well and is probably as skilled as anyone with fantastic dribbling, passing and link up but he probably isn't going to run a team like Silva can.

All depends what you're looking for but they all perform to a similar level when on top form IMO.

I was going to put Totti as my third, but I wasn't sure if he could be classified as an AM, especially since hes been sort of on the wing this season I believe. I dont really think cesc and iniesta can be classified with totti in the same role/position, but Totti has indeed been world class

There are alot of AMs performing well but there arent really any that stand out, Silva is inconsistent still and City depend on him alot and its easy to see that if he doesnt have ideas city dont really have any. Mata has been great too but doesnt seem like he is great in big games to me.

Iniesta has been on the wing a lot tbf.

Thing is while the starting position might be the wing all of Totti's major work happens in the centre so i still consider him an AM.

Similar thing with CR, i know his starting position is left wing but how often does he stay there?

Fabregas shown at Arsenal that he is comfortably better than any of Silva,Mata or Kroos etc.And now he' s starting to play brilliant at CM as well showing his adaptability.

Ozil is underrated because he plays for a team that doesn't play to his strengths,a team that is very direct with greedy players and not much possession orientated link up play in the final third but he is better than than Mata or Silva etc.

What I meant when I said Isco is a mix between Fabregas and Silva i s that he combines Fabregas superior vision, intelligence,passing and shooting ability with Silvas superior mobility,pace,dribbling ability and ability to play out wide as well as in the middle.

It will be best for him to stay at Malga for another couple of years under Pelligrini who plays the kind of intelligent football that will make Isco continue to get better,if he goes to Chelsea,Man City or Man United then his tactical understanding of the game will only worsen.He should go to Madrid in a couple of years if they get a manager who has them playing progressive football.If they don't then maybe to Bayern under Pep or Juve.

Just because a player roams from his position, it doesn't really mean his position is the one he roams too.

Unfortunately its not about Ozil being underrated or overrated.

OP asked who is the best at the moment and Ozil has been well below the usual standard and isn't even in the discussion.

Of course on talent and everything else he is but thats not what the thread is asking.

Mata, Cesc and someone...I like Kroos. But I aint seen Bayern in a while so its hard to say at the moment he is there but I think he is deserving.

No, not Iniesta.

To mean in this category, you have to play in between the lines. He doesnt so I wont include him.

Cant be asked arguing again but just giving my reasoning.

You might as well put Rooney there.

Dani what is the difference between Iniesta's role and Mata's role at Chelsea?

They both have been deployed in wide positions but play very narrow with the fullback acting as a winger.

I think if you refuse to include Iniesta then you can't include Mata either personally.

Ok he has played as a 10 on occasions but on the main his starting position has been on the right but very narrow moving inside he isn't really played inbetween the lines.

Sort of like Cazorla at Villarreal and Malaga if you will.

Mata plays down the middle last I saw him, Moses and Hazard flanking him. He is a real number 10 now.

Iniesta plays that role you speak of when he is with Cesc, but put Tello or someone on that side and he is a genuine centermidfielder.

I dont see what they do as similar.

If you speak of Mata before, who played with Oscar and Hazard, then its a little different. But he still was in between the lines, he looks for the that gap still because Oscar and two other midfielders are so much deeper. There is that space, right of the holding midfielder and too deep for the fullback to come, thats where he looks to get in.

Iniesta doesnt go in between the lines the majority of the game, the rotation in midfield where the constant movement is required to recycle possession means every now and then he will pop up in that space, but the majority of the game is spend with other midfielders goalside of him.

Thats the biggest difference, Mata, wherever he plays looks to get goalside of the midfield and be directly in line to take on a defender.

Iniesta looks to get the ball the other side, where he has midfielders to beat.

I was talking about with Oscar and Hazard tbf which is where they have been playing most of the season and before that Lampard played as a AM with Hazard and Mata on the flanks.

I'd say Moses has played less than quarter of the games, Mata has played less in the legit 10 position than Iniesta has played wide left floating inwards with Cesc as the AM and Xavi and Busquets as a pivot.

I don't think the difference in roles are that drastic, well it is with Moses and Hazard instead of Lampard and Hazard or Oscar and Hazard but we haven't seen that all too much.

What i have seen from Barca a lot this season is Xavi and Busquets holding, Alba pushed forward ahead on the left, Cesc and Iniesta inside and Pedro/Alves on the right.

So the Midfield and attack sort of looks like a 2-4-1

Iniesta's position has been central enough for me to consider him.

Mata has been playing as a 10 ever since Rafa took over.Thats why Oscar has barely played and when he does he plays as a winger.

Well I dont think so, as I said, I only put players in this list I think play the majority of the game in between the lines.

Iniesta doesnt and I think Mata does.

Whether Mata plays in the middle on paper like he does with Moses and Hazard or off to the side when Oscar plays, he is trying to get in between the lines.

Iniesta I dont think does that, he doesnt look to get in between the lines..Cesc does, Messi does...he doesnt, he connects much more with deeper places.

Look at him here for example




So many touches deep, looking at the midfield, not behind it. Or of course out on the flank. Look how its the black guy who name I dont know who is in constant confrontation goal side of him. He is a fellow midfielder.

Nearly everytime he gets in between the lines (which is not often here) is off of ball rotation when the movement is necessary. Or more often, after beating the rightback in the 1 v 1
To me, in this video, these are not the movements of a 10.

Tbf though a 10 =/= AM when you look at it they are very few natural 10s left in the game, they are mobile attacking midfielders who roam across the front line more often than not.

They are not players who control the middle like say Valeron use to do, they are midfielders that rely on their touch, dribbling and movement rather than their ability to run a team and control the tempo of a game.

All the players are mentioned have that same trait, well except Fabregas who relies exclusively on his movement and ridiculous range of passing.

Tbh Kroos is probably the closest to what i would consider someone who dominate the hole rather than just destroying teams with dribbling and movement like the majority of these do.

Even when Mata plays as a 10 i don't see him dominate the hole but rather move across the line always looking for pockets of space before looking for a pass to open a team up.

The idea of a scrict 10 is very rare these days and i don't believe any of these are.

Iniesta doesn't really move across the line. It is possible for a CM to attack without being an AM.

There really is too much squabbling over the semantics of positions imo.

Perhaps its not by coincidence then that Kroos and Cesc were in my top 3. They play the role how I believe it should be played.

Mata is killing it at Chelsea too much to ignore, even if he, Ozil, Silva and many others interpret the modern role very differently with their lateral movement.

TheRedStag wrote:There really is too much squabbling over the semantics of positions imo.

I'm bored lol anyway Dani i can agree with that even if my opinion on Iniesta's role is quite different from yours.

I think i'll leave it at that.

Mata, Gotze, Silva