"Cesar Azpilicueta
-Andoni Iraola
Both who are without a doubt better then Arbeloa in every single way. "

You laughing at this shows how its clear you haven't seen Iraola and Azpilicueta over the years. Ask this whole forum and not a single one will take Arbeloa over these two. Its ridiculous how you rate Arbeloa over players you haven't seen. Azpilicueta and Iraola are superior without a doubt.

Arbeloa had a good Euros by the way.Just because he's not Dani Alves you think he's average.Same for Capdevilla,he was clearly a good player and didn't put a foot wrong in 2010.

Arbeloa had a very average Euros. Was troubled largely vs Croatia, italia in the group stage and by Ribery of France. Doesn't mean the alternatives wouldn't have performed better.

Capdevilla was solid if not spectacular but vs Paraguay, Switzerland and an average showing in the final didn't convince anyone. Although I would praise him far more then Arbeloa who is god awful.

Aside from the point.

You bring the awards argument which is obsolete and doesn't ad anything to the debate as otherwise Guivarch or Sulley Muntari would be legends.

Similar to the Athletic Club thread you jump to conclusions without actually comprehending my point. You will see nowhere within my debate that Xabi has been poor yet I've said he hasn't been at his usual level for over 6-8 months now while Arteta since his move to Arsenal has been more influential in the same role than Xabi in the PAST TWO YEARS.

I won't even discuss Everton given their different roles and how you clearly did not watch Arteta in Everton.

Conclusive point is Xabi has been excellent yet Arteta in the past 2 years has shown superior range to his game along with being more influential.

And then the winning mentality argument again which you haven't quantified by any measure except that "Xabi has a better winning mentality" Hilarious stuff right there considering Arteta's carried Everton on his back along with Arsenal's midfield last season without a defensive partner.

Thats it.

Stop telling me which players I have and haven't seen.As if you have a crystal ball or something.

Again to say those players are better than Arbeloa defensively is bordering on insane.

Calling a player like Arbeloa god awful shows how biased you are,he was good in the last Euros,he was defensively solid like he always is at his best and he got forward a lot to provide an outlet,he doesn't provide much attacking thrust obviously but he had his moments going forward were he created danger and he is/was always comfortable in possession.He was very good for Madrid last year as well and he performed superbly in the Camp Nou totally shutting down that side of the pitch,

It's clear you don't like Real Madrid players,I suggest stop knee jerking after half a season of bad form and look at their players performances over the last few years for club and country.According to you the last 6 months means the last 2 years.I would like to see Arteta try and do Alonsos job at Real Madrid(I described before what his role or rather roles for Madrid are)but I bet you Alonso would excel in Artetas position at Arsenal.

At the end of the day there is no way to prove that Messi is a better player than Ribery for example.And you have the right to think Arteta is a better player than Alonso but I also have the right to laugh at your opinion.

worms wrote:Stop telling me which players I have and haven't seen.As if you have a crystal ball or something.

Again to say those players are better than Arbeloa defensively is bordering on insane.

It's clear you don't like Real Madrid players,I suggest stop knee jerking after half a season of bad form and look at their players performances over the last few years for club and country.

At the end of the day there is no way to prove that Messi is a better player than Ribery for example.And you have the right to think Arteta is a better player than Alonso but I also have the right to laugh at your opinion.

If you had seen Azpilucueta and Iraola you would have named instances where they defensively faltered, made errors or just had a poor game overall.

Azpi is revered highly after being near flawless at such a young age at Osasuna, at Marsielle he was Ligue 1's best Rightback for consecutive years due to his defensive record plus being near immaculate at Chelsea so far. The man marked out Ribery, Bastos, Goetze (playing wide last year vs Marsielle) and countless other opposition and in the Champions league.

Iraola another very consistent and highly skilled Right back who has been nothing short of spectacular for Atheltic Club for years and years.

Any sane person who has watched the three will know the difference. There is a reason why Liverpool fans couldn't care less about Arbeloa leaving them, he was average. And is defensively a wreck this season.


Yes there is a way of proving that Messi is better than Ribery. Dozens of ways actually.

If I did look at the few years then I would look at Arteta's time at Everton which was sensational. As for country that can't be measured since Arteta did not play for Espana.

If you read again, you would notice my BASE argument would be who has been better over the past TWO years yet jumped to other debates once more.

I'm done with this debate.

Valero better than Arteta

My eyes couldn't read that much BS

"If you had seen Azpilucueta and Iraola"

Stop telling me who I have and haven't watched as if you have physic powers.I have watched them both on dozens of occasions,for example have I not already said in the Athletic Bilbao thread that I supported Athletic last season and thus also watched them a lot?

"There is a reason why Liverpool fans couldn't care less about Arbeloa leaving them"

Speak for yourself,stop been arrogant and thinking your opinion counts as ALL Liverpool fans opinions.I am a Liverpool fan and I cared about him leaving,especially for such a cheap price.And I know many other Liverpool fans who also did,I should know better than you I live in Liverpool and talk to Liverpool fans.

Borja Valero is a very good player and better than Arteta IMO.I don't know why you talk of him like he is some scrub and nowhere near as good as Arteta.He was brilliant for Villareal and now Fiorentina.In Spain and Italy it is harder to play in midfield as I have said before.

He is younger than Arteta,a more talented and dynamic player who has more to his game.Valero is a more attack minded player than Arteta but they still play similar positions so they are comparable.

I have heard multiple Real Madrid fans saying they should buy Borja Valero to play instead of Khedira.I have not once heard them utter the words Mikel Arteta.

By the way here's something Arteta has never done,despite been nearly 3 years older than Borja:

worms wrote:

Borja Valero is a very good player and better than Arteta IMO.I don't know why you talk of him like he is some scrub and nowhere near as good as Arteta.He was brilliant for Villareal.

Aye so brilliant that he went down with them.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

worms wrote:

Borja Valero is a very good player and better than Arteta IMO.I don't know why you talk of him like he is some scrub and nowhere near as good as Arteta.He was brilliant for Villareal.

Aye so brilliant that he went down with them.

I didn't realize he was the only player in the team.He was one of the only good players in the team last season,without him they looked lost.Just ask any Villarreal fan.

By the way he won the Spanish Player of the Year in 2010,which is hugely impressive with the amount of talent in La Liga.

Coloccini was in PL team of the year last year, that means nothing tbh....

And anyway its not a coincidence he suddenly looked meh and Villarreal had no direction once Cazorla left and Senna declined.

Relegated in 2 different leagues and he's being compared to Arteta

What Valero did that in the video, Denilson did that for us back 4 years ago, probably better.

I can't believe i am even discussing this. You are biased towards Spanish players in la liga and you probably dislike Arteta due to your Liverpool commitment.

No point discussing this

You have to be better to be THE Spanish Player of the Year than been in PL team of the year.

Go ask Villarreal fans,they will tell you how good he was for them.

I don't remember Denilson doing assists like that,and Borja only played for 25 minutes and did all that.As you can see in the video he is more mobile and has better dribbling than Arteta.The point weren't how good he was in that game anyway,the point is Valero was picked ahead of him.He was playing in the same position Arteta plays.So why weren't Arteta picked ahead of him if he is so much better?

Probably because VDB "preferred" Valero for that friendly and not Arteta ?

Villarreal fans would tell you how much they miss Senna, Cazorla, G.Rossi or Nilmar. Valero did nothing worthwhile in his last season.

There is a reason why He was backup to Jonathan Greening at WBA

Why did VDB prefer him to Arteta if Arteta is so superior to him?

"Valero did nothing worthwhile in his last season."

He was their best player.....

"There is a reason why He was backup to Jonathan Greening at WBA"

Because at the time WBA were a team who relied on physicality and direct play so cultured players like Valero weren't given a chance?

The year after he left there he won the best Spanish player of the year award,this shows the problem was with West Brom and the EPL's less technical and tactical playing style.Were direct play is preferred to possession.

The same reason why Managers ignored Le Tissier time and time again... Managers don't always pick the better player, but the one they prefer. Govou started over Ribery on many occasions for france, doesn't mean he was better.

The best player at Villarreal ? You mean Diego Lopez, Cani, Zapata, Bruno Soriano were all poor players who Valero alone tried to carry ? Please. He was as poor as every one else in that season. If you want to feel happy by saying he was the one eye king in the land of the blind, then sure go ahead.

And since when did Tony Mowbray started playing with Physical and direct approach ? If you do want to go with that, then that shows how limited Valero is. Arteta player different at Everton and bossed, and he plays different at Arsenal and still is excellent, while Valero is too busy being the " best player " in relegating teams.

Who am I?

Sorry he plays two yard off centre

He is a not a CM

"The same reason why Managers ignored Le Tissier time and time again."

Because he was lazy with no tactical understanding of the game? The definition of a luxury player.

There must be some reason why he preferred him to Arteta,then to play him in a position which is Artetas position.It seems like he doesn't rate Arteta as much as you.

"The best player at Villarreal ? "

I said he was the best player at Villarreal last season.

"You mean Diego Lopez, Cani, Zapata, Bruno Soriano were all poor players who Valero alone tried to carry ? "

1.Were did I say they were poor players?

2.Did you actually watch Villarreal last season because to talk about Zapata as if he is a good player despite been one of the worst players to ever play in La Liga suggests you didn't.He was a complete disaster at Villarreal.Wasting money on that clown was one of the main reasons they went down,as well as losing their 2 best players(selling Carzola + Rossi injured all season),nothing to do with Valero,he performed very well considering how poorly the team was playing throughout the season.

And yes,West Brom of that time played direct and what I call "stupid football" compared to teams like Villarreal and Fiorentina.West Brom were a poor team.

Arteta is only proven in one top league,Valero is proven in 2 top leagues.In both Serie A and La Liga more technical and tactical ability is required for a midfielder to excel than in the EPL.

Completely forgot Zapata was a beast for Udinese and not Villarreal lmao

Arteta moved from spain at the age of 18, His development was done in Scotland, France and England. He was told to focus more on other attributes rather than the ones which la liga is primarily known for. You can say he is a blend of English n Spanish. I am not saying he is a WC player or should be in the Spanish team because Not even Javi martinez can displace Busquets. However to say Valero is better than him is just not true but i will take it as your opinion and respect that. For me, Arteta is excellent at what he does for us. He is playing as a DM and probably the most important player in the team. You aren't the only one to raise these doubts, but like i said, it's your opinion. We all have ours

Borja?

Its players like him who give coaches fundemental tactical problems when composing the midfield.

These deep lying passers who cant defend a lick and only give the most basic balls while they rarely, if ever, advance up the pitch.

The, he plays for the National Team arguement has always been highly flawed. I dont understand why its used at all.

All it is is one coaches opinion on his team. Thats it.

There are countless examples everywhere, of coaches who use inferior players while sit superior ones, for various reasons.

"These deep lying passers who cant defend a lick and only give the most basic balls while they rarely, if ever, advance up the pitch."

That doesn't describe Valero at all,he is primarily a CM but can also play AM.Arteta is better defensively I will give him that but then that's expected for a player who players in a deeper role in midfield.And Valero gets forward a lot more than Arteta if you are implying Valero is some kind of immobile static midfielder.

Watch this video of him at Villarreal,look how much he gets forward and creates chances as well as keeping possession ticking over in midfield,some nice long range passes from deep as well:




If you are implying Valero is some kind of luxury player who doesn't close people down of the ball then you are wrong.Sorry but who you are describing is nothing like Valero.

By the way I don't think he is a much superior player to Arteta,they are on a similar level but I think Valero is slightly better.

worms guy should be a comedian

@worms

epoto you are now on ignore.I am yet to see you add anything to discussion.I will give you another chance to converse with me in a adult manner in 2 weeks time.

highburied you are on trial.Consider this a warning.

worms wrote:"These deep lying passers who cant defend a lick and only give the most basic balls while they rarely, if ever, advance up the pitch."

That doesn't describe Valero at all,he is primarily a CM but can also play AM.Arteta is better defensively I will give him that but then that's expected for a player who players in a deeper role in midfield.And Valero gets forward a lot more than Arteta if you are implying Valero is some kind of immobile static midfielder.

Watch this video of him at Villarreal,look how much he gets forward and creates chances as well as keeping possession ticking over in midfield,some nice long range passes from deep as well:




If you are implying Valero is some kind of luxury player who doesn't close people down of the ball then you are wrong.Sorry but who you are describing is nothing like Valero.

By the way I don't think he is a much superior player to Arteta,they are on a similar level but I think Valero is slightly better.

One game will not change my opinion, seeing as that has been built up over half a decade of watching him play.

worms you are one hell of funny guy i sure will miss the comedy in Ur so called discussion and m8t check the thread , i started this thread so i surely made my part , and the question i ask doesn't really need discussion .