Is Mourinho a great teacher?

Great coach he is, that isnt up to debate, his trophy case speaks for itself.

But we were talking on the chat about how a player like Di Maria was being limited in Madrid while playing a lot better with Argentina. Same can be said about Ozil to some extent, and few other players. Opposite is true as well let's make it clear.

Mou coached many players until now, so do you consider hil a great teacher of football? by that i mean someone that helps his players improve through pure understanding of the game.

I make the difference with him being a great motivator because motivation dies out after a while, may it be a few months or a year top. Motivation doesnt make one intrinsically better at football, although it can spur you to perform like a possessed man.

great teacher or not?

I think you might be onto something there, the only Madrid player who I feel really has improved under Mou has been Khedira, the others pretty much stayed their course, and their lack of success, in my eyes, has been mostly due to lack of team cohesion, which could mean that the motivation is dying down, as you suggested.

What happened at Inter and Chelsea would fit that theory as well, Mou did best when he had world class footballers at their prime at his disposal, and they did not seem to improve individually under his tenure, "only" as a team. Which is of course a great achievement, but might really be down to temporary motivation, while skills and tactics probably learned would've stuck with the players longer.

If we are talking about Khedira, then i would disagree with you. I havent seen him actually becoming a better footballer. For about the first season and so, people were wondering where the attacking Khedira of Stuttgart was. Khedira to me is the case of a player who improved his performances thanks to prolonged play with Alonso, it was natural. Did he pick up anything new to his game or started doing things we hadnt seen before? i dont think so. He is still relying on things he came in madrid with.

Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo, Di Maria & Benzema have all improved under Mourinho at Madrid.

Maybe, with Khedira, I'm a victim of watching too little of Stuttgart, and forgetting about how young he was, maybe it was just him growing up, but I had the feeling that he became more and more important for Germany as well, though, granted, that might also just be because he has been missing a couple of matches, in all of which we looked like we played with a man less.

So maybe I had just been underrating him, which would make your thesis even more solid.

Bear-Felix wrote:Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo, Di Maria & Benzema have all improved under Mourinho at Madrid.

this is true, but i am trying to measure just how influencial he has been in their growing curve. It's a bit tricky, and hard to do, but why not try it nonethess.

For guys like Ramos, Pepe or Marcelo to some extent, i dont think he had much influence in their development. Pepe reached CB maturity, Ramos we all knew could ball at CB; same for Marcelo no?

I'm not sure Mourinho improved Benzema and Di Maria if i'm honest....

Benzema today is not any better than the Benzema i saw at Lyon that destroyed Yanited.

Di Maria was always a great player at Benfica i don't see a major improvement in his game except he works harder.

No, but I thought everyone knew that already.

Have some players improved under him? Yeah of course. But its logical that players 21, 22, 23 are going to improve. They are going to improve under any coach realistically.

But too many players have not improved enough for me and I think its not because Mourinho lacks skill in the area.

I think he doesnt really care about long term development because he has "win now" mentality and doesnt care about what happens later when in all likelihood he will be gone.

I don't think so. When I think of great teachers I think of the likes of Bielsa, under whom players noticeably become better than they were, usually earlier on their careers. When I think of Mou, I think of someone who prefers experience amongst his most desired qualities, who is very good at building balanced teams, and who almost always likes to purchase a finished product (playing at their peak or slightly after). It seems a pre-requisite for me that a great teacher would be willing to give youngsters a chance, to guide them into the right way of playing, and this is something for which Mou has very little interest. Do some players play better under him? Sure. But you could argue that just the same as Di Maria improved under him, he would've improved more under SAF. I think Mou is a great motivator, a great team-builder, possibly a great tactician, but I wouldn't call him a great teacher.

Marcelo is the only guy imo that has significantly improved under Mou mainly in regards to his defending.(Mind you its still not up to the mark)

it's difficult to measure how much influence he had on their development without knowing how high their ceiling was.

Pepe went from being a decent CB to being one of the best in his position. Maybe I didn't watch him enough but I never saw him becoming as good as he is now.

Marcelo & Ramos went from being labelled as liabilities in Madrid's defence to again, some of the best in their position, maybe a little less with Ramos.

Benzema was always seriously talented but became a slob at Madrid, he needed the Mou-love to get himself together. Di maria the same, he improved in the things he loves to do (dribble, killer balls) but still has massive glaring weaknesses to his game.

Defensive side of every players became far better individually and collectively but i think he doesnt instruct players enough offensively to improve their technique. His style of play doesnt involve any risk and taking risks on the field makes you a better player imo.

I think Pepe was always hugely talented, I hate the guy but even back to his Porto days his talent was evident. Even before Mou came Pepe had great games against us, he slowed Ronaldinho a few times. The only difference under Mourinho I see is they are generally more organised then the old teams and he can flourish because he has direction. As that Mourinho teaching him? For me not really.

One thing he has done though I wont refute is that his mentality and the mentality he has tried to use to defeat Barca (antagonising yet ultra physical boarding on dirty) fits perfectly with Pepe.

Ramos to me hasnt improved at all. He was always a poor rightback and a very good centerback. Before and after Mourinho. Mourinho used him at rightback when he had his trusted Carvalho and Ramos was still horrific.

Marcelo has improved, but even he hasnt improve that much honestly. I think he has improved as much as anyone he had should of and he still actually has a ways to go I feel.

Benzema was better at Lyon, no doubt in my mind. Some aspects have improved no question, but what happened to his off ball running I never know. Mourinho not having good offensive instructions? I dont know and cant speculate, but while Benzema is a fantastic player he has improved in some areas at the cost of others.

Di Maria is the same player I saw for years at Benfica, perhaps with more work rate..but to me he always worked hard. I dont know if people didnt watch Benfica very closely or not, but I dont see much difference at all.

Even if you go back to Chelsea, what happened to young Thiago? Now he is scrub at Atletio but before that he was a one of the more talented young Portuguese players. Kezman, completely fell off the face of the map, Brave Scotty Parker, Glen Johnson, SWP, Del Horno, Lass and more I am probably forgetting..all young...none of them progressed, in fact they all went backwards if anything.

Again, dont think lack of skill...I think he truly doesnt care.

Bear-Felix wrote:Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo, Di Maria & Benzema have all improved under Mourinho at Madrid.

completely agree with the players you picked out.

imo these players have really grown as players by massive amounts since mou has taken over.

the most evident change imo is marcelo, he has really blossomed as a player under mourinho. was this due to mourinhos tactics? his coaching? or would marcelo have inevitably grown into the player he is today regardless of the manager.

i think its the first 2. marcelo has always shown talent but he has had quite a few great managers at madrid, and he has never grown this much defensively within a season.

its impossible to say really, though that is just my opinion. its also impossible to say definitively that a player would inevitably grow in a certain way regardless of coach.

but to answer the question directly i would say he is a good teacher. not the best, not even top 5 maybe 10.. particularly defensively though he is good

@Franchise

In all honesty I never watched too much of Madrid before Mou came so I'm not in the best position to argue against most of what you said.

Where I would disagree with you tho is on Di Maria, he was a much better in his 2nd season than his 1st, alot better. For my money, pre-injury, he was the best winger in the world, was ridiculously raw in his first season (still is to some extent) I still wouldn't put a lot of that to Mou, mind.

Going back to Chelsea the only real stand out candidate is Lampard. From decent all-round midfielder to best player in the world behind Ronaldinho is some step up

He obviously is.

Creative players like Di Maria, Modric, Ozil, etc maybe not so much because of his philosophy but the likes of Lampard, Ronaldo, Benzema, Drogba and especially defensive players like Marcelo, JT, Ashley Cole, Ramos, Pepe etc became better players under his tutelage.

Not surprised this forum would actually try to argue against this though. You guys love reaching.

You guys really don't think the Benzema of today is better than the benz of Lyon? This Benz is 1000x better btw. He's playing the creative role at Madrid and had 15 assists last year and already 10 assists in this one. All this while scoring 25 goals in Mou's first year and 32 in Mou's second. He also has 7 so far this year. Really not even the same player and i watch him A LOT.

CR7 is miles better under Mou than he was under anyone else. His goal high before Mou was 43. He had 33 goals in his first year at Madrid. Suddenly, he explodes for 50+ and then 70.

Khedira is much better.

Ozil in Bundi was not as good as Ozil in Madrid. It's just that Ozil was so good the last 2 years that he has a lot to live up to.

Marcelo is now a WC player.

Pepe and Ramos are much better defenders.

Varane has made huge strides under Mou.

Etc.

I mean come on. He is a jerk and he is very rigid and predictable with his tactics. But there's no question that he teaches and coaches like a boss.

A lot of players have improved under Mourinho. However I'm sure they would have done that under any other coach. It's just natural progression and the players getting more experience.

I haven't seen much of Di Maria at Argentina/Benfica, however since he's signed for Real Madrid, his overall play has been inconsistent.

First of all, none of us can answer this question with any kind of authority. When was the last time you were in Madrids locking room listening to Mourinho? Never, thats when.

But thinking back about players testimony's and what we all know, it seems that yes, he is not "someone that helps his players improve through pure understanding of the game."

Sneijder, Drogba, Milito, Di Maria, Maicon, Lampard, Cole have all spoken on how playing for Mourinho is great and easy because he alleviates pressure, gives you great believe and makes you perform your best. Players like Zlatan, Benzema, Balotelli we know are players that are the opposite, Mourinho put pressure on them in order to succeed.

There are very few specific cases in which players perform worse after meeting Mourinho, Eto'o, Kaka, Coentrao and others have had their particular reasonss. Every single team Mourinho has coached has performed leaps and bounds better than before him, i believe every single Madrid player (except Coentrao and Sahin) is now better than before.

There's not too much history of Jose promoting youth, he promoted Santon at Inter with good success, but overall this has not been a priority for him or for the leadership above him, you pay Mourinho to win period.

I don't know much about his Lieira or Porto days, overall it doesn't seem like he's a great teacher, however there is a big point he has been good at teaching all teams he's coached. Defensive positioning and discipline.

chinomaster182 wrote:First of all, none of us can answer this question with any kind of authority. When was the last time you were in Madrids locking room listening to Mourinho? Never, thats when.

But thinking back about players testimony's and what we all know, it seems that yes, he is not "someone that helps his players improve through pure understanding of the game."

Sneijder, Drogba, Milito, Di Maria, Maicon, Lampard, Cole have all spoken on how playing for Mourinho is great and easy because he alleviates pressure, gives you great believe and makes you perform your best. Players like Zlatan, Benzema, Balotelli we know are players that are the opposite, Mourinho put pressure on them in order to succeed.

There are very few specific cases in which players perform worse after meeting Mourinho, Eto'o, Kaka, Coentrao and others have had their particular reasonss. Every single team Mourinho has coached has performed leaps and bounds better than before him, i believe every single Madrid player (except Coentrao and Sahin) is now better than before.

There's not too much history of Jose promoting youth, he promoted Santon at Inter with good success, but overall this has not been a priority for him or for the leadership above him, you pay Mourinho to win period.

I don't know much about his Lieira or Porto days, overall it doesn't seem like he's a great teacher, however there is a big point he has been good at teaching all teams he's coached. Defensive positioning and discipline.

Agree completely although Santon is better now than he ever was under Mourinho

true, no one is in the locker room, but the result is on the field for me.

As for players like Marcelo and Benzema though i do say one thing.....

Was their improvement just due to maturing as men and footballers or was it due to coaching of Mourinho?

None of us can ever say either way but it's debatable IMO.

he is a psychologist
he improves players skills through it, getting the best out of a player doesnt necesserily have to be temporary and a factor of motivation rather teaching him and improving him on aspects of the game that possibly couldn't be accomplished being trained by someone else due to mental factors that mou specializes in

he is a teacher that teaches in a unique way, the way of the special one, the best coach in the world

Marcelo hasn't exactly turned into the defender that everyone wants him to turn into. Someone who's good attacking wise and defensively.

I think it was just due to maturing as footballers and gaining experience.

In fact I'm going to say every Real Madrid player would have been as good as they are right now without Mourinho.

Thats a big thing to say, anyone remember Pellegrinis team? Not exactly lighting the world on fire.