Winter Transfer Market: Priorities

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Post by Forza Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:16 am

1st paragraph: Our CBs have not had time to form a partnership.

Let's not muck around, I really don't think that chemistry is the main issue here. Half a season is not an unsubstantial time. The names Yepes, Mexes, Acerbi, Zapata and Bonera don't exactly scream out "quality", do they? Allegri has trialled every pairing under the sun and is clearly not satisfied because he never sticks with any player for very long. Impressive performances have been few and far between and I'm sure Allegri is frustrated with the options at his disposal. Quite frankly, I'm not sure if we can get any more out of these players unless a better player comes along to partner with one of them.

2nd paragraph: There will be nobody available in the January transfer period, so we would be better off waiting until season's end.

Yes, it's true that it is difficult to find a good CB mid-season, but you're writing as if nobody has ever bought a decent player in January. I put this question to you, if we cannot find a player of quality to fill the CB position in the January transfer window, what chance do we have of finding a vice-Monty? After all, vice-Monty can't just be any old hack with some passing skills. Some reasonable money is going to have to be spent.

Of course, if we can't find anyone for the CB position, we should wait until the end of the season. Making a purchase is not necessarily what this thread is about, it's about prioritising. If a good CB is available in January we should make his acquisition the top priority - that makes sense, no?

3rd paragraph: I do not understand the relevance of this part to your argument. We both agree that Montolivo is very important to our team.

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Post by dostoevsky Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:16 am

Mexes might not be an elite central defender, however he is a very solid player who has proven himself capable of leading a team to the Champions League in years past as Roma's finest defender. A league winner he may not be, however certainly far from a mid-table defender, whilst Acerbi next to him has shown promise without being allowed a run of games. Game time is everything to a central defender; the likes of Bonucci and Ranocchia who are part of defences at the top of Serie A only found the form they currently enjoy once they were given an uninterrupted run of games despite their mistakes. Bonucci was once maligned by all Juventus fans, with some calling for him to be not simply dropped but offloaded. Yet Conte's persistence and trust in him saw a mistake-prone and rash central defender turn in one of the finest performances of any defender at the last international tournament and whilst he is still learning, he continues to benefit from a patient selection policy. We can't expect Acerbi to return any positive results until he's also simply given the opportunity to grow and develop in a stable partnership, something far more extensive than a few games here and there throughout his first six months.

As for your second point, the very fact that this player is essentially a vice instantly makes our pursuit a simpler matter. Any central defender we have to bring in must be significantly better than our current options, a very obvious leader in defence and thus quite evidently a player for whom we will face possibly substantial competition. In midfield though, we are not chasing a current leader, someone whom we expect to immediately establish their credentials as one of the best in their position. Whilst I'm not at all suggesting that we should settle for someone of limited potential, our options in midfield can be far more flexible than in defence, where mistakes are more costly and their support less illustrious by your own summation. The names we discuss for our midfield can be those with potential, those we talk of for our defence have to be capable of giving us results from the moment they first walk on the pitch in our shirt.

As for my final point, I meant simply to illustrate that I find it much easier to compensate for a loss of quality in defence than the removal of our only creative midfielder.
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Post by Milantildeath Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:18 am

Comi fighting for a position? So far he has made 16 appearances and has 6 goals. I think he is doing quite well.
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Post by dostoevsky Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:23 am

He's no doubt doing well, however of his thirteen league appearances, only seven have been from the start, for four league goals and two assists. Regardless of whether he starts or not though, it's all regular game time and it will help him to continue to grow, I don't want to see him on our bench when he could be continuing to grow elsewhere. I want to see us hold onto his contract for sure, however another couple of seasons on loan will likely be of use to him as a player until he finds the right Serie A club to explode at, such as the case of Destro at Siena, having struggled to make an impression at Inter and Genoa. Comi will still take time to mature at the highest level, for now I just want to make sure we keep his contract and give him every opportunity to prove himself worthy of a return. In the mean time, Pazzini can provide us with the tactical option of a strong reference point, as long as he remains content in Milan.
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Post by Rossoneri Ninja Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:26 am

We should concentrate on reducing the squad to 25 players, too much dead wood. New acquisitions should be sought after the end of the season, considering we will most likely have a change in coach, if we have to get a player i'd want a midfielder capable of doing Montolivo's job.

P.S : Forza its Stephan* not Stefan, i can tell you now that it's been a lifetime struggle of getting people to write my name correctly and every time they don't a little piece of me dies quietly..
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Post by Forza Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:33 am

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:P.S : Forza its Stephan* not Stefan, i can tell you now that it's been a lifetime struggle of getting people to write my name correctly and every time they don't a little piece of me dies quietly..
hahaha, rest assured I will never make that mistake again Stephan!
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Post by Forza Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:55 am

dostoevsky wrote:Mexes might not be an elite central defender, however he is a very solid player who has proven himself capable of leading a team to the Champions League in years past as Roma's finest defender. A league winner he may not be, however certainly far from a mid-table defender, whilst Acerbi next to him has shown promise without being allowed a run of games. Game time is everything to a central defender; the likes of Bonucci and Ranocchia who are part of defences at the top of Serie A only found the form they currently enjoy once they were given an uninterrupted run of games despite their mistakes. Bonucci was once maligned by all Juventus fans, with some calling for him to be not simply dropped but offloaded. Yet Conte's persistence and trust in him saw a mistake-prone and rash central defender turn in one of the finest performances of any defender at the last international tournament and whilst he is still learning, he continues to benefit from a patient selection policy. We can't expect Acerbi to return any positive results until he's also simply given the opportunity to grow and develop in a stable partnership, something far more extensive than a few games here and there throughout his first six months.

As for your second point, the very fact that this player is essentially a vice instantly makes our pursuit a simpler matter. Any central defender we have to bring in must be significantly better than our current options, a very obvious leader in defence and thus quite evidently a player for whom we will face possibly substantial competition. In midfield though, we are not chasing a current leader, someone whom we expect to immediately establish their credentials as one of the best in their position. Whilst I'm not at all suggesting that we should settle for someone of limited potential, our options in midfield can be far more flexible than in defence, where mistakes are more costly and their support less illustrious by your own summation. The names we discuss for our midfield can be those with potential, those we talk of for our defence have to be capable of giving us results from the moment they first walk on the pitch in our shirt.

As for my final point, I meant simply to illustrate that I find it much easier to compensate for a loss of quality in defence than the removal of our only creative midfielder.
Mexes is our most solid defender, but he is past his best. He will probably have to do for the rest of this season. Acerbi hasn't really been promising tbh. I really, really hope that he gets his chance and shows that he is capable, but thus far he's not really up to standard. And vice-Monty can't just be some scrub. In order to replace such a pivotal player, he will need to be also be of good quality. Roncaglia would be ideal at CB, but I don't know if Fio will let him leave as they have CL aspirations.
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Post by dostoevsky Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:17 am

It's only possible to say that he's past his best when he's been able to play a full season with our team to provide a comparison with his days at Roma. Up until now he's barely had a consistent run in the team thanks to the strength of Nesilva and a series of unfortunate setbacks with his fitness.

A vice-Monty can hardly be a scrub, I agree, however the fact that we are looking for a rough talent in need of refinement rather than a more finished product aids our search.

A name such as Roncaglia is being offered as a defender who is clearly superior to those in our backline, yet he's a player no one had ever heard of at the beginning of the season when he arrived from Boca Juniors and has thus far impressed as part of a three man defence - the same story as Zapata in our own team, who at the very least showed consistency in such a position for an entire season. Roncaglia's just as much a risk as anyone in our backline, the man has been in Europe for less than six months, playing in a different system to that which we use under a manager who in almost managing Catania to Europe has shown that he clearly gets every last drop of talent from his players. It's one thing to prioritise a purchase in central defence on the basis of bringing in nothing but the finest, however there are so many factors that might see such a transfer blow up in our faces.
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Post by Forza Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:44 am

Is Roncaglia not a player clearly superior to our players in our backline? Let's not forget that nobody knew who a certain Thiago Silva was either before we bought him. Anyway, Roncaglia was quite successful with Boca in Argentina and has been in Europe before with Espanyol (on loan). Every transfer has a certain risk attached to it dos.
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Post by dostoevsky Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:02 am

He's a 25 year old Argentina defender who has never received a call-up to the national team despite the fact that they have the poorest defence of any major national team in the world. He's never played in the Champions League, he plays in a different system to our team and his impressive performances have come under a manager who managed to make Spolli and Legrottaglie look like a reliable partnership.

To say, I like Roncaglia, let's take a chance on him, is one thing, that's fine. I'm perfectly happy to take appropriate risks with transfers, however I don't see any difference between the hype Roncaglia is receiving and the hype that Zapata received eighteen months ago.

To say, Roncaglia is clearly a superior player to Mexes, he's the player who can lead our backline and walk into our first team is quite another. He might well prove to be an excellent transfer, I don't see why is name is being mentioned so highly though when we're purporting to be after an absolute superstar in the centre.
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Post by Forza Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:11 am

I don't think our management have the money or the will to spend money on an "absolute superstar" in any position. So, who would you bring in at CB? and as vice-Monty while you're at it?
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Post by Kaladin Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:28 am

Forza Rossoneri wrote:I don't think our management have the money or the will to spend money on an "absolute superstar" in any position. So, who would you bring in at CB? and as vice-Monty while you're at it?

Marvin Martin, Adam Maher and maybe even Poli can fill Monty's role i believe.

As for CB we should get a short term solution until we can splash in the summer
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Post by dostoevsky Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:48 am

In an ideal world I'd say that we should be chasing Höwedes, however such a player is likely to be financially beyond us. I'd offer other names, however in the end, all we're going to be able to do is see how is available and then evaluate who is the best option for the price.

In central midfield, I do think that an option such as Poli is a fairly simple target, his market value having been recently evaluated during the negotiations between Sampdoria and Inter. As with any purchase for the defence, I'll give a preference based upon who we end up pursuing come January.

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Post by Valkyrja Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:42 pm

What about Mehdi Benatia for the CB spot ?
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Post by Dante Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:15 pm

Kizu wrote:What about Mehdi Benatia for the CB spot ?

Personaly i have yet to be convinced by Benatia , but he looks as a solid option . However , there's no way Udinese would sell him in January. They need him twice than we do . For Milan to aquire him in January ,we would have to over pay and knowing Galliani , the chances of him over paying for a CB during January are right at 0% Laughing .


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Post by Dante Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:31 pm

dostoevsky wrote:
In central midfield, I do think that an option such as Poli is a fairly simple target, his market value having been recently evaluated during the negotiations between Sampdoria and Inter. As with any purchase for the defence, I'll give a preference based upon who we end up pursuing come January.


Even if Poli doesn't happen , don't say Laughing , we do have many options to choose from , at least from the Italian market. There's Poli of course , Merkel , Nainggolan and then there are others from the foreign market as well , but more expensive for the club to purchase.

Though Nainggolan , who begun proving himself under Allegri hmm at Cagliari , would seem like a fine choice to me. Having said that , give me anyone who can dribble , play possesion and make a key pass , anyone .

We've been extremely lucky Montolivo has been injury free so far. Don't know what will happen if we lose him in one of the next CL games , with none to replace him . Again , top priority.
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Post by KR10 Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:15 pm

It's interesting that a lot of the time a person's opinion of a player is based on what they read about that player, or perhaps the odd highlight, rather than actually watching them play. At least this is the case for me.

For example, I really wanted Yanga-Mbiwa in the summer, even though I had never seen him play. I automatically assumed he was better than any of our CB options even though he played in Ligue 1, and had only one good season.

Just something interesting I thought I would share, anyone else share the same opinion?

About our dependence on Monty, we are about to find out this weekend. He will likely miss the trip to Turin with a thigh flexor injury. Urby is expected to take his spot. He clearly has technical ability, but definitely doesn't have the composure and vision of Monty. He also tends to lose possession in key areas.

I'm hoping for a TERRIBLE performance but a win, so our management will realize how bad our back-ups to Monty are, if they haven't done so already.

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Post by Milantildeath Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:33 pm

Let me just throw this out there Lisandro Lopez (CB) has been called up to the argentine national team, 4 times I believe.
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Post by forza.milan Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:03 am

Dante wrote:
Kizu wrote:What about Mehdi Benatia for the CB spot ?

Personaly i have yet to be convinced by Benatia , but he looks as a solid option . However , there's no way Udinese would sell him in January. They need him twice than we do . For Milan to aquire him in January ,we would have to over pay and knowing Galliani , the chances of him over paying for a CB during January are right at 0% Laughing .

I think it's important to notice that it is Udinese that we are talking about. Not one player of theirs is unsellable and they love when a big club comes calling for their players. Price tag may well be close to €10m but we have to move away from loans, free transfers and co-ownerships. True quality costs money.
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Post by Cruijf Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:53 am

BARE MINIMUM:

1 CB, 1 LB, 1 CM (In that order)

IDEAL:

1 CB, 1 LB, 1 CF, 1 CM, 2nd CB (In that order)
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Post by Cruijf Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:59 am

forza.milan wrote: True quality costs money.

I'll have to disagree with you there. Maldini, Silva, SES, all came for either free or dirt cheap. But even if I agreed with you, we simply don't have the spending power any more to buy ready made stars. For January at least, short term, ready to go replacements are needed, plus cheap purchases that can quickly grow and take up the mantle of some of the vacancies I mentioned above.

We can't buy Ibras, Shevas, or Nestas, at least not in January.
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Post by Ganso Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:34 am

SES was expensive
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Post by Milan31 Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:06 am

Ganso wrote:SES was expensive
worth EVERY penny :bow:

#InEL92wetrust
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Post by Cruijf Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:48 am

Ganso wrote:SES was expensive

10 M is not expensive. Especially since he's now worth 20+ M, and that he's done just as much as Ibra who was much more pricey. Either way, he was not fully developed and we did not have to break the bank to get an already established star.
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Post by Milantildeath Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:47 am

the deal in total for SES was 20mil. As for January, we need center backs. A "vice Montolivo" would be nice as well. As for Left Back I'm convinced Constant can do it. We should worry about the striking department in the summer.
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Post by forza.milan Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:07 pm

ACMRox wrote:
forza.milan wrote: True quality costs money.

I'll have to disagree with you there. Maldini, Silva, SES, all came for either free or dirt cheap. But even if I agreed with you, we simply don't have the spending power any more to buy ready made stars. For January at least, short term, ready to go replacements are needed, plus cheap purchases that can quickly grow and take up the mantle of some of the vacancies I mentioned above.

We can't buy Ibras, Shevas, or Nestas, at least not in January.

El Shaarawy cost €16m + the full ownership of Merkel, who was rated at close to €5m in the deal. Maldini was developed at Milanello and Thiago Silva needed two seasons to come into his own and under the tutoring of Nesta, even if Thiago did cost over €10m.

What I mean by true quality costing money is that we have holes in our squad, this is undeniable, and at the moment there seems no long term solution, either in the first squad or the Primavera for these gaps and so the market must be utilised. I would love to see a Thiago Silva type buy, a young, promising player coming from a league lesser than the Serie A and then being given faith and time and developing into a world class player. That is a viable method of running a club and is exactly what direciton this club needs to head in now that resources are scarce.

Cheap, short term solutions leave us with a massive squad filled with Mesbahs and Traores, it reeks of a lack of planning and a clear idea for the future of the club.
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