Ballon D'or short list

Muzza wrote:

Dante wrote:

jibers wrote:

This. Mole and Jibers vs the rest. Come at us brahs!

No guys , please spare us

Lol , i find it interesting that you didn't answer my last sentence , in a previous post of mine , though Mole did.

Don't you think it would be absurd for the voted best player of the last CL , not be included in the top 3 of this award ? If the CL counts for anything , then shouldn't it's voted best player end up in the top 3 of the World player of the year award ?

Once again , i specify that i still try to find 2 cents to give for the award , but i think Iniesta's inclusion there is justified nonetheless.

what's this award you're talking about for best player in the CL? The 'UEFA best player in Europe' award? If so, he won that for his performances in the euros not the CL.

yeah , i got confused with something i was reading earlier .. thanks for the correction . Allright scrap that

But still the argument stands , i guess. Don't you think the voted best player in Europe should as well be at least top 3 for this ? it makes sense if you ask me .

Without Pirlo that Italian system falls apart as good as the players were alongside him.... there's no one to recreate that regista role to even 1% as good as him.

The rest of those players can be easily replaced.

The team falls apart without him, there's no way in hell they would have got to the final without him.

He's not the 2nd degree of god but without him Italy don't get to the final and and Juventus don't win the league.....

He was key to both achievements.... which other players can say that?

Ronaldo can.... Messi is there due to his ridiculous individual exploits and carrying Barca for long periods.

No other player has achieved anywhere near as much as individual as Pirlo has over the year.

Who is replacing De Rossi?

Barzagli is injured? - No problem coach - I'll move to the centre and play as a sweeper and be the best performer of the game.

Germany playing two attacking midfielders? - I'll just lock them down.

Germany behind, cracks in their defense opening up? I'll move up and consolidate control and help Pirlo dominate the game from the centre.

Who is replacing that?

Motta and Nocerino can no moreso step in for De Rossi than guys like Montolivo and Aquilani can step in for someone like Pirlo. Who was replacing Cassano in this team?

Giovinco?

Also, entirely separate from that.

Using the strength of their reserves to determine the performances of a player on the pitch? Think about that for a second. Think of it's implications.

Barzagli did get injured if you recall.... and yes i know DDR went back there but he didn't have to they had CB's but Prandelli chose DDR it wasn't absolutely necessary.

Motta and Nocerino can more or less replace DDR and Marchisio to an acceptable standard to get away with it.

Montolivo and Aqua can't get anywhere near to replacing Pirlo and they wouldn't have reached the final if Monto or Aqua was there instead.

Not sure what Cassano has to do with it because if Pirlo was out then they would just move Montolivo back and move Marchisio forward and put Motta next to De Rossi.

It wouldn't work and the system would fall flat on it's face and they wouldn't get anywhere near the final.

Also i'm just using this an example to explain why Pirlo was so vital to his teams successes and no other player Messi and CR aside were as vital as Pirlo was.

For me the biggest joke is Guardiola being on the coaches' list, considering he hasn't been active for six months...

We all know that these awards are popularity contest. We are arguin about Pirlo or X player not being in the top 3 and all but at the end of the day only one player is going to win it. R carlos, Raul, Henry, Lampard,Bergkamp... all came second once but no one remenber and people keep saying thing like '' it's a shame that Raul/Henry.. never win it ''

Reals football fans know the value of great players. i don't need to see them win the ballon d'or. Only the winner matters .. for history
I'm pretty sure that if we look back we'll find many great forgotten players ( about ballon d'or )

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Without Pirlo that Italian system falls apart as good as the players were alongside him.... there's no one to recreate that regista role to even 1% as good as him.

The rest of those players can be easily replaced.

The team falls apart without him, there's no way in hell they would have got to the final without him.

He's not the 2nd degree of god but without him Italy don't get to the final and and Juventus don't win the league.....

He was key to both achievements.... which other players can say that?

Ronaldo can.... Messi is there due to his ridiculous individual exploits and carrying Barca for long periods.

No other player has achieved anywhere near as much as individual as Pirlo has over the year.

To be honest , i can certainly agree with this. It's just.. is this the main reason for Iniesta not being worthy of his top 3 inclusion . Is it really ? Trust me , i fully get how important Pirlo is both to Juventus and Italy . However , what does it mean if Juventus/Italy was without him ?

If he wasn't , i doubt how many would have said , " imagine having Pirlo in all these games with Juventus/Italy.. we would have gone undefeated and Italy would at least reach the final "

come on Mole . I don't agree with the accusations some here have thrown at you at all , about 'hating' and dissing Iniesta lol , but Pirlo just got back to his old standards , it's not like he did anything new on the pitch he hasn't done before. Although what he did are worthy of great recognition nonetheless , again i say he should be around 3rd to 5th place. He would probably win the Euros if not for this Spain as well , but all of this doesn't make Iniesta and his performances any less worthy of his inclusion . Both would have deserved to be there , both do actualy.


P.S You called him just flashy some moments earlier , yet you know his actual game is so , so simple when it matters up front , never complicates stuff without good reason. What does that tell you , playing simple football and looking this flashy ? It's really rare if you ask me , and if we talk about individuality , he really was the most altruistic player in the competition , perhaps not always the center of everything like Pirlo was , but nevertheless , vital to Spain's game and success.

I would have preffered Pirlo as well, but it's not like Iniesta fell from the sky into that top 3 either.

Le Samourai wrote:Who is replacing De Rossi?

Barzagli is injured? - No problem coach - I'll move to the centre and play as a sweeper and be the best performer of the game.

Germany playing two attacking midfielders? - I'll just lock them down.

Germany behind, cracks in their defense opening up? I'll move up and consolidate control and help Pirlo dominate the game from the centre.

Who is replacing that?

Motta and Nocerino can no moreso step in for De Rossi than guys like Montolivo and Aquilani can step in for someone like Pirlo. Who was replacing Cassano in this team?

Giovinco?

Also, entirely separate from that.

Using the strength of their reserves to determine the performances of a player on the pitch? Think about that for a second. Think of it's implications.

Not sure if you're purposely excluding Marchisio's fantastic performances in the Euro or mistakenly

Anyways, Mole put it best, Pirlo was the heart of the team but this doesn't mean he carried the team, he was just the star in a team of standout players. No one can deny that other players played a large role too though.

A little more on topic, I think Pirlo deserves top three, but at that point what does it matter if he is top 3 or 5? We know it's going to be Messi or Ronaldo, arguing over third place just seems silly. I'm sure Pirlo would appreciate the recognition, and he deserves it but apart from that, seems meaningless to discuss further

DeviAngel wrote:

Dante wrote:

DeviAngel wrote:

FORUM RULES
- No trolling (Automatic 3 day ban)
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Hey Devi , could you kindly delete your post without warning yourself please

ok joking aside .. Why don't you give some arguments , that facepalm hardly answers anything . Note that i don't agree with Baresi on this , i think Pirlo should definitely be up there somewhere , between 3rd to 5th place.

because knowing baresi its just trolling nothing else and it's not worth it lol. Warning myslef ? It says banned ffs

Now you're unfair ; he didn't even attempt anything . It was a legit post . If he's biased against Pirlo , that's another matter , but nowhere near trolling.

You re biased towards Pirlo anyway , lol

@Dante

The main reason Iniesta is not in my top 3 is for these reasons....

1. Lack of team success

2. Inconsistent

3. Individual performances were not top 3 standard

That's about the size of it tbh, he wasn't as good for Barca as he has been in recent years although not all his fault as he played a lot of games out of position but none the less i don't think as an individual he was in the top 5 players of 2012.

Although tbf he has been fantastic since the start of the season.

Luca wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:Who is replacing De Rossi?

Barzagli is injured? - No problem coach - I'll move to the centre and play as a sweeper and be the best performer of the game.

Germany playing two attacking midfielders? - I'll just lock them down.

Germany behind, cracks in their defense opening up? I'll move up and consolidate control and help Pirlo dominate the game from the centre.

Who is replacing that?

Motta and Nocerino can no moreso step in for De Rossi than guys like Montolivo and Aquilani can step in for someone like Pirlo. Who was replacing Cassano in this team?

Giovinco?

Also, entirely separate from that.

Using the strength of their reserves to determine the performances of a player on the pitch? Think about that for a second. Think of it's implications.

Not sure if you're purposely excluding Marchisio's fantastic performances in the Euro or mistakenly

Anyways, Mole put it best, Pirlo was the heart of the team but this doesn't mean he carried the team, he was just the star in a team of standout players. No one can deny that other players played a large role too though.

A little more on topic, I think Pirlo deserves top three, but at that point what does it matter if he is top 3 or 5? We know it's going to be Messi or Ronaldo, arguing over third place just seems silly. I'm sure Pirlo would appreciate the recognition, and he deserves it but apart from that, seems meaningless to discuss further

still better than Messi - Ronaldo 1.972.356.237 bitch fight edition

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:@Dante

The main reason Iniesta is not in my top 3 is for these reasons....

1. Lack of team success

2. Inconsistent

3. Individual performances were not top 3 standard

That's about the size of it tbh, he wasn't as good for Barca as he has been in recent years although not all his fault as he played a lot of games out of position but none the less i don't think as an individual he was in the top 5 players of 2012.

Although tbf he has been fantastic since the start of the season.

fair enough . Like some said earlier about Pirlo , it's not like Iniesta is the 2nd coming of cheeesas either , but i guess , opinions just differ .

I think he had enough team success for example , winning the Del Rey and the Euros , as well the CWC if i am not mistaken .

Performance wise , it goes deeper into opinion-based critisicm and i think i'll leave it at that. For what i know of Iniesta and what i've seen , i barely remember a better season than what he had , but that's just me.

Incosistent i won't even argue about , he hasn't been the best of examples regarding consistency , that i concede . He made up for it in the Euros though , by no means inconsistent there . I maybe give too much credit to his overall play , but i can't help it , i think the guy is technicaly perfect , no matter how you look at it .

jibers wrote:

white_star wrote:Sooooo GL bullshit again. When I say something bad about Pirlo, mole gets sand in his vagina and people mourn. When mole and GL biggest troll diss Intiesta it's ok. Stay biased GL !

Nope that title belongs to Gil, you just try too hard!

Gil wrote:
Drogba carried a shite Chelsea side to an unlikely first CL title. That beats anything Iniesta has done so far in his career.

...Really? lmao
Anyways why is there even a debate for third best?

Donuts wrote:

Gil wrote:
Drogba carried a shite Chelsea side to an unlikely first CL title. That beats anything Iniesta has done so far in his career.

...Really? lmao
Anyways why is there even a debate for third best?

Donuts wrote:

Gil wrote:
Drogba carried a shite Chelsea side to an unlikely first CL title. That beats anything Iniesta has done so far in his career.

...Really? lmao
Anyways why is there even a debate for third best?

More interesting then Messi VS Ronaldo! 8 pages about the 3rd spot is a GL accomplishment!

Man I hope Ronaldo wins. The fallout would be so amazing to watch.

The reality of the matter is that Cris deserves it over the midgets this year. Messi's goal run has been great but his reward for that is the Golden Boot imo.

As far as carrying the team(s) on his back Cris has been there for both Madrid and Portugal when they needed him. But man the riots from fanboys if Ronaldo wins

Del Bosque is a lock for best coach and I think he deserves it. Jose should come second.

Guardiola lol not even top 5 last year imo.

Apparently Pirlo wasn't even in the top 5 . Xavi and Falcao ahead of him oh god

Xavi in the top 5 the guy wasn't that great last season tbh.

Yeah I seem to remember lots of "Xavi is decline" threads last season.

Honestly as great as Pirlo was you have guys like Ibra who were completely ignored as well despite having great individual seasons themselves.

my list:

messi
drogba
pirlo

Guardiola being there shows how much of a popularity contest this award is.

kiranr wrote:
Guardiola being there shows how much of a popularity contest this award is.

i am also not understanding how many people are including drogba. the award is for the calendar year and he hasnt played in 6 months.

vanDEEZ wrote:

kiranr wrote:
Guardiola being there shows how much of a popularity contest this award is.

i am also not understanding how many people are including drogba. the award is for the calendar year and he hasnt played in 6 months.

Well, there can be an argument made for Drogba. He did contribute a lot in Chelsea's CL triumph. But yeah, there are others who performed better than him through the season, so perhaps his inclusion would be undeserved, but there is atleast an argument that can be made for his inclusion which is not the case of Guardiola.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:@Dante

The main reason Iniesta is not in my top 3 is for these reasons....

1. Lack of team success

2. Inconsistent

3. Individual performances were not top 3 standard

That's about the size of it tbh, he wasn't as good for Barca as he has been in recent years although not all his fault as he played a lot of games out of position but none the less i don't think as an individual he was in the top 5 players of 2012.

Although tbf he has been fantastic since the start of the season.

How can you say that Iniesta lacked team succes? He won copa del rey and the Euros(!!!) while Pirlo only won the league.

Copa Del Rey

Anyway i should have explained myself..... importance to team success.

Iniesta was nowhere near as important to team success as Pirlo was.

Only Barca fans can possibly think Iniesta deserves to be anywhere near this list

Pls go.

harhar11 wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:@Dante

The main reason Iniesta is not in my top 3 is for these reasons....

1. Lack of team success

2. Inconsistent

3. Individual performances were not top 3 standard

That's about the size of it tbh, he wasn't as good for Barca as he has been in recent years although not all his fault as he played a lot of games out of position but none the less i don't think as an individual he was in the top 5 players of 2012.

Although tbf he has been fantastic since the start of the season.

How can you say that Iniesta lacked team succes? He won copa del rey and the Euros(!!!) while Pirlo only won the league.

Only, only took a seventh place team to an undefeated record
Also was the standout performer that brought Italy to the final of the Euro
Also, only, brought Juventus to the final of the other competition they were in, the Coppa Italia, only to lose to Napoli

Only though

And you didn't mention Mole's other two points which seem to be a pretty valid criteria for me

sneijder not winning during his treble year is proof that team success and a players individual contribution to the team's success means nothing to balon d'or which is why im not surprised pirlo isnt top 3