Re: Mou's fight with Castilla continues

by SuperMAG Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:44 pm

hala, disagree with most your post (which i didnt read completely lol).

by Guest Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:15 am

SuperMAG wrote:hala, disagree with most your post (which i didnt read completely lol).

by Swanhends Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:49 am

halamadrid2 wrote:I don't think he has a point, to survive in that league you need to have older more experienced players. This isn't Segunda B anymore where he can play 16/17 year olds and still get results these are professional footballer just one step from playing in LaLiga completely different situations imho

But shouldn't the goal of Castilla be to prepare young players for the first team as best they can, rather than to finish as high as possible?

Just my opinion here, but I don't think position in the table should be of much importance to Castilla

by VanDeezNuts Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:32 am

Swanhends wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:I don't think he has a point, to survive in that league you need to have older more experienced players. This isn't Segunda B anymore where he can play 16/17 year olds and still get results these are professional footballer just one step from playing in LaLiga completely different situations imho

But shouldn't the goal of Castilla be to prepare young players for the first team as best they can, rather than to finish as high as possible?

Just my opinion here, but I don't think position in the table should be of much importance to Castilla

yes but there are 2 parts to it.

1. which i think is most important is what you said- preparing youth for the first team.

2. staying at the highest division possible so these young players can be exposed to the highest level competition possible.

being in segunda B is a disservice to players like alex, morata, jese etc. because they can compete at a much higher level and if castilla need a couple over 23 y/o players to stay up in segunda A, then i think its necessary to sacrifice the chances of 1 player who is 16-18 than the entire team of youth players being in segunda B which is basically crap and mourinho refuses to make legitmate call ups when castilla was in that division.

by halamadrid2 Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:38 pm

Swanhends wrote:
But shouldn't the goal of Castilla be to prepare young players for the first team as best they can, rather than to finish as high as possible?

Just my opinion here, but I don't think position in the table should be of much importance to Castilla

The difference here is kids in spain have a league and can be promoted to the first division which is different from epl, if like an u19 league was what we had i would argue the same but thats not what we have got atm, why should it be to prepare youngsters??? they might as well not have a coach then if thats what their sole purpose should be, as i said before they are competing against teams whose aims are to play in LaLiga and they can't afford to play only youngsters, Toril did it last season in segunda b but then Mou said they were playing too low down and didn't have the experience to play top football which is completely false as they(spain) have won 3 straight Under 19 championships with kids from our youth being the star players in all of them

Also something that our team has got which is different to other youth in Spain is that we have a C-team as well, no other team can boast about that, in order to progress to Castilla they have to have starred for the C-team first, i just don't think Mou's excuses are working these days, he can always pick kids from the C-team if age is what matters over quality

by Le Samourai Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:10 pm

1. Since when do players (especially youth players who are almost always looked to be developed holistically and thus have to play in different positions) need to play a defined role.

His point about Jese is ignorant, anyone who watches Castilla knows that they interchange somewhat , particularly if Morata is there...and they also know that the position he is playing is the one which puts him in the best position to succeed and highlights his best qualities.

To play him in another position and that position only , simply because that's a position he might be expected to get 15 minutes in a Copa Del Rey game doesn't make sense.

2. As I explained earlier....If Mosquera is dropped and the defense is left unprotected, we're asking for relegation.

Here's the thing that bothers me. I most certainly think that Rodriguez should be playing, but it's Toril's acquiescence to the stylistic demands of Mou that prevents it. He wants Castilla to play like the first team, but if you play Rodriguez they become a possession oriented team instead.

So what exactly do you want the guy to do.

Alex , who is an amazing talent ( and is better than Rodriguez currently) is playing the exact role he would need to play in the first team...and he has played it consistently for a while.

Yet he has not gotten a single meaningful minute in 2 years.

So here's my solution for Toril.

Completely ignore him- switch to 4-3-3 and find a way to weave in both Jota and Rodriguez into some sort of rotation around Alex and Mosquera. Leave Jese where he is because he's already there and he only plays for himself so that's the only position I see him playing in professional football.

by Mr Nick09 Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:12 pm

In substance what Bhends says is true, the B team is to prepare players for the A side, that's how it should work. So technically, finishing 8th or 11th is not that important as long as key players progress. If everyone is good enough, they wont have troubles staying in the top 10 anyway.

Imo, Toril is pressured because we havent been in segunda for so long, so he is a bit cautious. He tries to mix it up, Castilla is having a really hard time in segunda division, every game is incredibly hard for them. There is a transition phase they need to go through for a little time.

Also, mourinho is making all those comments for just one player, JUST ONE: Jose Rodriguez. Alex is playing, so are Jese, Derik, Denis, Lucas etc... and they are the most promising anyway. Jose is having a hard time because Alex is ahead of him, that's it really, unless we play both in a 433...oh wait, that's not the first team formation lol.

@Hala, most teams in Spain have a C side, Barcelona in example. thing is, it's rare to see a club having a team in the top 3 divisions, that's all.

by halamadrid2 Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:54 pm

@nick, from what i understand Barca used to have a C-team until Laporta scrapped it because they were about to get relegated from tercera division (3rd division)

I am not talking about Juvenil teams here, because we have that as well, but an actual c-team haven't seen a team in Spain yet with an actual c team like we have, but as you said they might be hovering in a lower league that nobody cares about lol

by SuperMAG Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:54 pm

From what i heard, jose rodreguez is a DM, not CM like alex, even madrid official site says that, he is like a destroyer acording to them, if so, he fits the role perfectly then mosquetera, both mosquetera and alex have same attributes, they are both playmakers type.

As for jese, i dont know what you guys are on about, but jese is a winger, he should be treated as a winger, he should be played as a winger, ronaldo type, he can have a future there.

Playing him as a AM, expect him to playmake, give me a frekin break, totally troli foult, mou was spot on. Same goes to Morata playing LM, Freaking LM, Nacho playing as CB.

Do you really expect nacho to play as CB for us, he was developing well as an LB.

I am not saying troli is bad and all, he did good, we qualified to Sugunda, we are winning matches, start playing the youth more ffs.

by Le Samourai Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:06 pm

Jese is not as playing attacking midfield. What are you talking about? He plays a scoring role and drifts between being an inside forward and an out and out striker.

Jose Rodriguez is the same as Alex , an all round player who plays a very dualistic role in a 2 man midfield. He is not a defensive midfielder and you really can't expect him to sit back and protect the defense , which is what Mosquera does.

Nacho was always a centre back....but even so the he would always be behind Marcelo and Coentrao ( exactly) anyway.

by halamadrid2 Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:08 pm

When Sarabia left we had nobody to play as an AM, nobody, Toril tried with Omar and co but it didn't work out. so instead he put Jese there who fits the criteria he might not be a playmaker but he does the job decently. we dont play with a TRUE AM but more of a SS

At the time Joselu was occupying the strikers role which meant either Morata was benched or he was played at another position, Morata with that quality should not sit on the bench so Toril played him out wide where he did badly which is understandable. Now that joselu is gone Morata plays as a CF but he isn't making a case for himself he is just being depressed and not caring

Also as you said if Jese played on the wings where would Denis play?? both are quality and you can't sacrifice one for the other.

As for Jose Rodriguez whenever he has played it has been as a sub for Alex(who is an Alonso V2.0) and let me tell you one thing i can understand why he doesn't play more, at the start of the season he started a couple of games and was one of the reasons we lost because he tackles so damn much and is just immature

by SuperMAG Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:58 pm

u said it yourself, there was no one else who fits there, jese was sacrificed, our most talented young winger was, a winger who can have a role in the team when kaka leaves.

jese and denis should both play as wingers, you have borja garica, you have the footed striker, lucas, why sacrifice ur best talents in wrong positions. Even morata could've been better choice last season.

Nacho can play as RB and LB, he can have a role in the team. Do u really see him as CB for us.

Mosquetera was never a DM, he was as same as alex, he stays back as much as alex stays back, so dont make ridiculous excuses for the coach, i watch castilla almost every game.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:55 pm

Mou just got mad Toril has been benching portuguese kids since last season. He keeps putting them on the CL squad list, and Toril answers by benching them lol. They are shite players he is trying to force through castilla

by the xcx Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:17 pm

Disrespectful act from Toril here.

by Khaled Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:35 pm

Le Samourai wrote:How old are Lomban and Lobato? Lomban looks at least 30

If Mosquera was dropped the defense (which is terrible) would be left completely unprotected. It would basically be begging for relegation.

I would not mind a 4-3-3 but once again, Toril is actually trying to play like the first team....and he's actually trying to prepare Alex to play in a 2 man midfield (which is what Mourinhio said he wanted).

He can't really have it both ways.

1- Lomban is 25, Lobato is 23 (the oldest on the team)
2- Check the ages of the other players, Barcelona B's average age is 20.6 !

by halamadrid2 Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:57 pm

SuperMAG wrote:u said it yourself, there was no one else who fits there, jese was sacrificed, our most talented young winger was, a winger who can have a role in the team when kaka leaves.

jese and denis should both play as wingers, you have borja garica, you have the footed striker, lucas, why sacrifice ur best talents in wrong positions. Even morata could've been better choice last season.

Nacho can play as RB and LB, he can have a role in the team. Do u really see him as CB for us.

Mosquetera was never a DM, he was as same as alex, he stays back as much as alex stays back, so dont make ridiculous excuses for the coach, i watch castilla almost every game.

Either Morata sits on the bench or he is played and if he is played he will have to play at another position than CF because Joselu was head and shoulders better than him, the only other position he could be played in was winger in which case Jese had to be moved to SS, Denis started playing regularly as a winger and Morata found it hard to get playing time, this season however Joselu is gone which opened the door for Morata to play as our CF and he has thoroughly disappointed, scoring what?? 1 goal since the first game of the season sure he has been with the first team on a couple of occasions but thats poor

If both Jese and Denis play(who occupy the same position) should we cut them in a midsaggital plane so that we can somehow make a human being out of both of them?? Juanfran has the other wing who is too important to drop, heck he has been providing like crazy this season and helps the inept Fabinho out with his defending

Nacho played as a RB before, Carvajal then took up that position and Nacho was moved to CB to help Castilla, so being played out of the CBs positions isn't new to him for crying out loud

Mosquera protects our back four ffs, alex is the one who attacks, Mosquera barely steps infront of the half way line, just check out their goals(bar set pieces) and you will see who the more advanced man is

by halamadrid2 Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:00 pm

Khaled wrote:2- Check the ages of the other players, Barcelona B's average age is 20.6 !

Castillas average age is 21.6 and this with 4 guys 24 or over, either sitting on the bench or playing

So basically Mou is just trying to find every excuse in this world to not play the kids, i get it

by SuperMAG Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:25 am

halamadrid2 wrote:
SuperMAG wrote:u said it yourself, there was no one else who fits there, jese was sacrificed, our most talented young winger was, a winger who can have a role in the team when kaka leaves.

jese and denis should both play as wingers, you have borja garica, you have the footed striker, lucas, why sacrifice ur best talents in wrong positions. Even morata could've been better choice last season.

Nacho can play as RB and LB, he can have a role in the team. Do u really see him as CB for us.

Mosquetera was never a DM, he was as same as alex, he stays back as much as alex stays back, so dont make ridiculous excuses for the coach, i watch castilla almost every game.

Either Morata sits on the bench or he is played and if he is played he will have to play at another position than CF because Joselu was head and shoulders better than him, the only other position he could be played in was winger in which case Jese had to be moved to SS, Denis started playing regularly as a winger and Morata found it hard to get playing time, this season however Joselu is gone which opened the door for Morata to play as our CF and he has thoroughly disappointed, scoring what?? 1 goal since the first game of the season sure he has been with the first team on a couple of occasions but thats poor

If both Jese and Denis play(who occupy the same position) should we cut them in a midsaggital plane so that we can somehow make a human being out of both of them?? Juanfran has the other wing who is too important to drop, heck he has been providing like crazy this season and helps the inept Fabinho out with his defending

Nacho played as a RB before, Carvajal then took up that position and Nacho was moved to CB to help Castilla, so being played out of the CBs positions isn't new to him for crying out loud

Mosquera protects our back four ffs, alex is the one who attacks, Mosquera barely steps infront of the half way line, just check out their goals(bar set pieces) and you will see who the more advanced man is

Either you are trolling or you just know nothing.

Havent i said to play morata as SS instead of jese, that way he can be closer to the forward area and jese will develop more as a LW. Denis can play as RW.

Carvajal is gone, Juanfran can play RB, infact he is a better RB then Fabinho.

Nacho played LB before, not RB, he played RB long time ago, i am talking about last 2 seasons. Nacho should've continued playing as LB, he even got playtime as LB with the first team, SO WHY TF troli has to screw that up, he was making progress.

I dont have to see anything, i watch the full matches, mosquetera is tiny bit behind alex, but there is almost no difference, as a DM, he sucks. He barly protects our defence, cant control the game, one of the reason why teams just bypass our midfield.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:44 am

Sid Lowe on the subject

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/nov/12/cristiano-ronaldo-real-madrid-levante

by the xcx Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:15 am

Get ready to put on the tinfoil hats.

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