Mou's fight with Castilla continues

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:56 pm

Real Madrid coach Jose Mourinho has revealed that he does not agree with the few minutes midfielder Jose Rodriguez is being given by Castilla boss Alberto Toril.The 17-year-old starlet has appeared six times so far this season for Madrid's reserve squad before he was called up for the first time by Mourinho to play against CD Alcoyano in the Copa del Rey on Wednesday, which the Portuguese's side won 4-1.

"Jose Rodríguez, who you like so much, doesn't get a game for Castilla, while others do despite being 24-years-old. It's really sad," the 49-year-old told reporters at a press conference ahead of this weekend's La Liga encounter against Zaragoza.

"I have my autonomy, and [Alberto] Toril has his. I do what I want with the first team and he does what he wants with the second string. I have an opinion, and my opinion isn't going to change"

The former Chelsea supremo then went on to point out the lack of home-bred players involved in Real's last three Champions League wins.

"To draw a line under the subject: Sanchis and Raul were there for the final in Amsterdam; Raul and Casillas played in Paris, and only one home-grown player started in Glasgow: Raul again"

He concluded by claiming that his side usually have to play well in order to gain the points, as opposed to other teams who can play badly but still win.

"The key to winning the match? Playing well. Other teams win even when they don't have a good game, but that's not the case for Madrid," he explained.

Real Madrid meets Zaragoza on Saturday November 3 for their next La Liga match which is set to begin at 20.00CET.

by CBarca Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:14 pm

Said the guy who ostracized Sahin.

by Le Samourai Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:15 pm

Well....this is stupid.

Not 48 hours ago he complained that Castilla doesn't play the exact same system as the First team.

But he seems to have had a change of heart.

Because seeing as because Castilla DOES PLAY the exact same system as the first team . and that system is one in which Pozo is in direct competition with Alex (ie not going to start many games) he seems to be suggesting that Castilla (completely unlike the first team) play with 3 central midfielders.

Which is it hmm

Because surely he isn't suggesting Mosquera be dropped....I mean the first team never employed a formation with 2 playmakers. despite countless oppurtunities to do so from November 2011 to the end of the last season while Sahin was fit .

All in all the incongruence in his criticisms are clear, though they will naturally be ignored because of his coaching history.

by Onyx Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:30 pm

Real Madrid have to play well and win.

And there's nothing wrong in home grown players not playing.

by Die Borussen Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:15 pm

not his fault homeground players arent capable of offering what the team needs to achieve what history demands

maybe he is wrong on his statements regarding castilla, but im pretty sure he is doing it to counter the attacks coming his way for -not using castilla players on the 1st team which i find totally normal

by gondov Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:30 pm

The Madrid press just needs to admit that La Masia is a superior institution compared to Castlla.

Mou feels pressured because he knows if he tries to use inexperienced players, his tactical impotence will be exposed.

On the other hand, due to their tactical superiority, Tito-Pep and co are very good at this sort of thing and so can afford to nature talents such as busquets, pedro, thiago, tello, quenca, montoya, batra, to the envy of Madristas.

by CBarca Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:37 pm

gondov wrote:The Madrid press just needs to admit that La Masia is a superior institution compared to Castlla.

Mou feels pressured because he knows if he tries to use inexperienced players, his tactical impotence will be exposed.

On the other hand, due to their tactical superiority, Tito-Pep and co are very good at this sort of thing and so can afford to nature talents such as busquets, pedro, thiago, tello, quenca, montoya, batra, to the envy of Madristas.

Can anyone tell me if this is the official La Masia vs Castilla thread?

No? It's not?

It's just about Mou's "fight" with Castilla? OK, just making sure.

Anyway, does anybody think he might be saying this to have an excuse not to play as many homegrown/Castilla players? I don't think it's a stretch to say so.

by Onyx Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:46 pm

Barca's young talents have been average lately imo.

Tello, Cuenca, Montoya, Bartra etc aren't super special.

by Valkyrja Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:56 pm

La Masia is overrated, they made 4 great players IMO Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol. The others are good players like Cesc, Pep etc...

by Guest Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:01 pm

Here's the real question and answers:

In the last press conference here, you named academy players from 1999 on, but you left out players like Negredo, Etoo', etc. [Jose interrupts the journalist, clearly annoyed.]
The list I gave last time is a list for smart people, who understand, a list about the 20, 30, 50 players who come and go. All these players you're naming, who are having a better career, it's normal. But to put an end to this topic, because I think it's enough now, there are three key moments in Real Madrid's history: the finals in Paris, Amsterdam and Glasgow. In the Amsterdam final, two academy players Sanchis and Raúl; in the Paris final, two as well --Raúl and Casillas; and in the Glasgow final, one academy player on the starting XI --Raúl.

Based on the performances of academy players such as Álex, José Rodríguez, Morata, etc., are you considering giving them more playing time tomorrow?
What matters the most is to win. And I think the Madridistas feel the same way, what matters to them is for the team to win games. Against Alcoyano we won, some younger players got to play, José could start, perfect. But it's perfect because we won.

Did you have a chance to talk to José Rodríguez. How is he feeling about all the positive critiques he's been receiving?
I didn't talk to him. He trained yesterday, just as all the players who played. The positive critiques are normal, because it was his debut, so it's normal that these few days are filled with emotion, but that's about it, life goes on. Off to work and, if possible, to play more.

Did you ask for Toril to be taken off his responsibilities with Castilla and for you to have more?
No, not at all.

You want to put an end to this topic about the academy, but you opened the door first, so what summary would you make about everything that has been said, about Toril not using the players in the same positions as they would on the first team, etc.?
I said and I'll say it again: we both have the autonomy to do what we want with our teams. That's why the topic is closed. Now, I have an opinion and it hasn't changed. For example, José Rodríguez that you like so much, he doesn't play with Castilla, but players who are 24-25 do. For me, him playing would be better than Castilla ranking 6, 7, 8. That's what training is about, training players.

To wrap up about the academy...
It's enough, enough with the academy.

Are there things that you do like about Real Madrid Castilla?
If there are things that I like? Yes, of course.

by VanDeezNuts Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:06 pm

CBarca wrote:
gondov wrote:The Madrid press just needs to admit that La Masia is a superior institution compared to Castlla.

Mou feels pressured because he knows if he tries to use inexperienced players, his tactical impotence will be exposed.

On the other hand, due to their tactical superiority, Tito-Pep and co are very good at this sort of thing and so can afford to nature talents such as busquets, pedro, thiago, tello, quenca, montoya, batra, to the envy of Madristas.

Can anyone tell me if this is the official La Masia vs Castilla thread?

No? It's not?

It's just about Mou's "fight" with Castilla? OK, just making sure.

Anyway, does anybody think he might be saying this to have an excuse not to play as many homegrown/Castilla players? I don't think it's a stretch to say so.

thank you for saying that, not everything little thing has to be a madrid v barca debate.

so anyways the whole mou v toril thing- as always the media is going to blow matters up larger than they actually are. if you read just the quotes its not this heated fight between managers.. conflicting views yes, but we draw attention to these types of interviews as if mou and toril were in the same room they would kill each other.

besides, though they obviously have different styles mourinho knows how well toril has done with the youth teams particularly as the role of manager for castilla this past year and has praised him in the past.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:08 pm

Kizu wrote:La Masia is overrated, they made 4 great players IMO Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol. The others are good players like Cesc, Pep etc...

And how would you know how good Pep is when you started watching the sport in 2003?

Laughing

by gondov Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:13 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Barca's young talents have been average lately imo.

Tello, Cuenca, Montoya, Bartra etc aren't super special.

For now they are.

That mentality just goes to prove La Masia is so much better than Castilla.

These guys will only get better playing in the same team and same philosophy and developing chemistry.

Xavi and Iniesta were nobodies at 21 as well.

Patience is the name of the game.

Believe what u want..but this whole issue with Mourinho stems from the constant comparisons with Barca's sucessfull homegrown policy. Thats the main reason he is under pressure. If La Masia was useless no one in Madrid would be calling for Mou to use more homegrown players . Same goes for Barca if it was the other way round.

by Dante Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:16 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Kizu wrote:La Masia is overrated, they made 4 great players IMO Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol. The others are good players like Cesc, Pep etc...

And how would you know how good Pep is when you started watching the sport in 2003?

by Onyx Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:44 pm

gondov wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:Barca's young talents have been average lately imo.

Tello, Cuenca, Montoya, Bartra etc aren't super special.

For now they are.

That mentality just goes to prove La Masia is so much better than Castilla.

These guys will only get better playing in the same team and same philosophy and developing chemistry.

Xavi and Iniesta were nobodies at 21 as well.

Patience is the name of the game.

Believe what u want..but this whole issue with Mourinho stems from the constant comparisons with Barca's sucessfull homegrown policy. Thats the main reason he is under pressure. If La Masia was useless no one in Madrid would be calling for Mou to use more homegrown players . Same goes for Barca if it was the other way round.

Nah, there have been good promising players in Castilla.

But they just end up getting sold with buy back clauses.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:06 am

What Mourinho seems to be complaining about is that there are mature players in the "youth" divisions, and that the coach cares more about retaining their division than giving playing time to promising youth players. It's actually a legit complaint on my book.

by Le Samourai Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:20 am

How old are Lomban and Lobato? Lomban looks at least 30 rofl

If Mosquera was dropped the defense (which is terrible) would be left completely unprotected. It would basically be begging for relegation.

I would not mind a 4-3-3 but once again, Toril is actually trying to play like the first team....and he's actually trying to prepare Alex to play in a 2 man midfield (which is what Mourinhio said he wanted).

He can't really have it both ways.

by Valkyrja Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:22 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Kizu wrote:La Masia is overrated, they made 4 great players IMO Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol. The others are good players like Cesc, Pep etc...

And how would you know how good Pep is when you started watching the sport in 2003?

Even I didn't see Pep live, I've seen footages of him, and he didn't look like a great player(like Xavi for example). He was on Alonso's level from what i've seen.

by Guest Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:25 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:What Mourinho seems to be complaining about is that there are mature players in the "youth" divisions, and that the coach cares more about retaining their division than giving playing time to promising youth players. It's actually a legit complaint on my book.

Yup and he is also annoyed at the fact that Toril plays our most promising player in a position that does not exist in the first team. Jese is currently being played as a 9.5 in Castilla a position which does not excist at all in the first team.

The problem with Nacho and the fullbacks is Nacho is 22 and he is played as a CB mostly, Toril likes to play his fullbacks deep, unlike Jose who plays them forward, so he is unable to utilise the fullbacks from Castilla because they would have to learn a whole new tactical system, it's not practical.

I agree Toril cares more about the position of Castilla in the Segunda than developing players though

by FalcaoPunch Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:40 am

Mourinho is right imo regarding the age comparison.
Must blow though for the players in Castillo who meet that criteria of 25 and older

by The Sanchez Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:47 am

Can we please not make this a Barca vs Madrid debate again...

by Lord Hades Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:05 am

dont agree with all that jose says about castilla but this point is legit imo.

by Kuru Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:13 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:What Mourinho seems to be complaining about is that there are mature players in the "youth" divisions, and that the coach cares more about retaining their division than giving playing time to promising youth players. It's actually a legit complaint on my book.

This.

It still doesn't excuse Mou over negligence of youth players, but I still think he has a point this time.

by halamadrid2 Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:52 pm

I don't think he has a point, to survive in that league you need to have older more experienced players. This isn't Segunda B anymore where he can play 16/17 year olds and still get results these are professional footballer just one step from playing in LaLiga completely different situations imho

Not too long ago Mou was talking about defenders in our Castilla that are 24/25 but the thing he didn't realise is that both of them barely start Nacho(22) and now Derik (19) are those who will start from now on, Ivan used to start but Toril has figured out how bad he is. the supposed 25 year old who plays for our youth team Mateos sits on the friggin bench and hardly gets any mins. He then said Nacho plays different from the first team, sure NOW he does but back in the days he used to be a RB so its not like that concept is completely new to him, Mou bought Cacktrao because he was "versatile" but makes every excuse in the book to play Nacho who is a proven great versatile defender because it will inhibit him from growing i mean who would make an excuse such as that one

Then he goes on to say that they play different from the first team, sure Castilla don't play with inverted wingers but wing play is their strongest point and they play counter, aka just like the first team, they also have 1dm and 1cm just like the first team, Jese/Borja play like SS/AM when either Jese is a striker or acts like one or when Sobrino plays as striker. which is completely like the first team. They catch him out, then he says Toril needs to choose between 8th place or develop youngsters, i mean is Toril his biatch or something, Mou has a track record of not promoting what changed??

We had Carvajal who could have played as a starer for the first team because he is superior to Arbeloa but Mou said he needed experience but when guys DO have experience he complains that they are too old, Jose Rodriguez as josh said will hardly see playing time as he is in direct competition with Alex who is far superior to him, alex is 19 what does Mou expect we ship him out and play Jose instead?? He talks about Fabinho(jorge mendes' client) but has he seen how bad he is?? it has gone to the extent that we need to play a winger as a RB because he is so crap

Has the guy forgotten that we have a C team as well who themselves need players Castilla can't just take all their players they need to survive as well in segunda b, Castilla don't usually buy players but use their own academy products does the guy want c team to buy a full team so that Castilla can promote young 17 year old kids to play for them so that Mou can be satisfied(they still wont see time mind you, he will just come up with a new excuse out of his closet) hell no, Toril got a recognition for best coach shall he just jeopardise that so that he can be Mou's biatch?? don't think so

Lets not forget we still have a young castilla team anyways and the old ones are only there for experience, Juanfran was about to leave this summer think he will leave next summer, Mateos came back in case we needed experience he will also leave and then we have Mosquera who made our midfield a midfield from the scrub they were in the first half of last season where we couldn't even get the ball from segunda b sides.this is the same guy who debuted 25 year old Andy(played for the c team) over Alex last season and debuted Mendes(portuguese guy who sat on the bench for castilla) over Any of our other defenders, he also played Juanfran(24) as our RB once completely neglecting Carvajal(19). bitch please

we have a winger for Castilla that didn't even catch any mins against Alcoyano and he has already been called up by Capello for their next games. need i say more

in fact why dont i just name them and quote their ages

Jesus(22), Fabinho(18), Nacho(22), Derik(19), Casado(21), Mosquera(24), Alex(19), Juanfran(24), Denis(21), Borja(21), Jese(19)

this is the line-up they usually play with, sometimes Toril plays Sobrino/Oscar Plano as a striker and Jese as SS in that case Borja goes out and Sobrino is 19/Oscar Plano is 21, and sometimes he plays Juanfran as a RB and plays Lucas(21) as a winger, i mean where are all these old guys that he keeps complaining about, as if Mosquera or Juanfran would have been promoted if they were younger, someone needs to remind him there is a C team if he wants younger players

/rant

by SuperMAG Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:44 pm

hala, disagree with most your post (which i didnt read completely lol).

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