Re: Sergio Ramos: I don't know whether Mourinho punished me

by VanDeezNuts Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:41 pm

one moment (not too long ago if you remember the euros) ramos is hailed as one of the best CBs in the world the next he "wouldnt make our team if he wasnt spanish"

i dont understand you guys some times, i really dont. and you get all surprised when people call madrid fans fickle.

by The Franchise Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:47 pm

I dont think Ramos is crap, he is pretty good in the 1 v 1, very good in the air and is generally very mobile.

Has a mistake in him every big game and positionally isnt good.

Pepe is vastly superior and always had been in my opinon.

I dont think it would be a big deal if Ramos was dropped if he wasnt who he was. As in fan favourite, been at the club a long time, Spanish NT and so on and so forth.

Recent weeks he hasnt been good enough and was dropped. Pretty open and shut case to me. Mou wouldnt ever say that in public, it makes Ramos look bad, doesnt help his confidence and Mou doesnt exactly have everyone's backing in some of his methods.

by crazzyblanco Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:54 pm

dont think pepe is that much better than ramos tbh. Both of them are great defenders who have their flaws. Ramos just gets caught out attacking way too much and pepe just goes loco when provoked. Ramos is better at set pieces and is faster and more proactive than pepe whereas pepe is a lot more aggresive and rarely lets anyone through. Both are extremely fast for defenders and rarely get beaten for pace. Thats about it between them. I am biased towards Ramos because of the way he carries himself. I simply love his never say die and attack at all costs attitude.

by Le Samourai Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:55 pm

The Franchise wrote:I dont think Ramos is crap, he is pretty good in the 1 v 1, very good in the air and is generally very mobile.

Has a mistake in him every big game and positionally isnt good.

Pepe is vastly superior and always had been in my opinon.

Each and every criticism you outlined can be applied to Pepe....what makes Pepe better is recovery and being a much much better help defender but even so I think Pepe has to cover a little less space, bcause of the way the fullbacks are usually balanced.

That's in pure defensive terms without going into distribution and in general keeping the ball in play

@Deez.

He, Like Alonso is better suited to Spain's system. It's much more compact and gap less...doesn't leave space in and around people to exploit. The space behind players is usually the biggest problem and that's in general a strength of him (correctly coming up for the offside trap and ensuring that everyone else does as well).

Individual battles and mobility are his strengths as Dani said, and they fit Spain much better than they fit us.

Pique is also a better fit alongside him than Pepe.

by sportsczy Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:58 pm

btw, i don't think Ramos is bad. he's good. but nowhere near as good as some madrid fans make him out to be. he's a noob CB and it shows.

by Le Samourai Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:02 pm

sportsczy wrote:btw, i don't think Ramos is bad. he's good. but nowhere near as good as some madrid fans make him out to be. he's a noob CB and it shows.

When did you realize this?

Over the last year you've said alot of things about him but your opinions don't seem either consistent or congruent.

Just referring to Ramos alone BTW, nothing else.I mean just go to the Varane thread on your forum and open up the first page, that was 8 months ago. There's other stuff just post Euro's where you express optimism.

Now all of a sudden he's a noob. Razz

by The Franchise Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:05 pm

Le Samourai wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I dont think Ramos is crap, he is pretty good in the 1 v 1, very good in the air and is generally very mobile.

Has a mistake in him every big game and positionally isnt good.

Pepe is vastly superior and always had been in my opinon.

Each and every criticism you outlined can be applied to Pepe....what makes Pepe better is recovery and being a much much better help defender but even so I think Pepe has to cover a little less space, bcause of the way the fullbacks are usually balanced.

That's in pure defensive terms without going into distribution and in general keeping the ball in play

They can be applied to Pepe, but just toned down dramatically. Ramos is more error prone and worse positionally.

I can see where this is going, Ramos is better on the ball. Its not that important. Firstly because actual defending is what they are in the side for and its most of the job. Whoever is better defensively is the better defender. Second, its not like Pepe is a liabilty..he may not be great, but he isnt poor either. Its not some kind of weakness in his game which regularly is a problem.

by Jonathan28 Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:09 pm

What the hell am I reading?! At the end of the Euros Madrid fans were declaring Ramos the best CB in the world and now a month into the new season he's suddenly crap? Wow, Madrid fans are flip flopping more then Mitt Romney. Barca will gladly take Ramos off your hands.

by Le Samourai Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:12 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:
The Franchise wrote:I dont think Ramos is crap, he is pretty good in the 1 v 1, very good in the air and is generally very mobile.

Has a mistake in him every big game and positionally isnt good.

Pepe is vastly superior and always had been in my opinon.

Each and every criticism you outlined can be applied to Pepe....what makes Pepe better is recovery and being a much much better help defender but even so I think Pepe has to cover a little less space, bcause of the way the fullbacks are usually balanced.

That's in pure defensive terms without going into distribution and in general keeping the ball in play

They can be applied to Pepe, but just toned down dramatically. Ramos is more error prone and worse positionally.

I can see where this is going, Ramos is better on the ball. Its not that important. Firstly because actual defending is what they are in the side for and its most of the job. Whoever is better defensively is the better defender. Second, its not like Pepe is a liabilty..he may not be great, but he isnt poor either. Its not some kind of weakness in his game which regularly is a problem.

Well we diagree there.

I think it's the fundamental weakness in Pepe's game and you think it's not an issue. So our views here will never align.

To me if Pepe gives away the ball it makes us vulnerable in various ways , accelerates the pace of the game, makes Alonso susceptible to being overrun etc etc.

Keeping the ball in play to me has it's advantages.

by The Franchise Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:21 pm

But Pepe passes the ball at almost the exact same rate as Ramos. I think your overdoing it a little in terms of it being an issue.

Again, Ramos is better on the ball, but its not that big a difference.

by Valkyrja Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:27 pm

Ramos is like Puyol,a leader, a fighter. Puyol was never the best CB in the world based on ability... but their mentality makes them the best for their teams. Don't be rush, Varane is a talent you find once in 20 years... but he needs time. Ramos-Varane partnership will be great. Wait 2-3 years.

by Le Samourai Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:42 pm

The Franchise wrote:But Pepe passes the ball at almost the exact same rate as Ramos. I think your overdoing it a little in terms of it being an issue.

Again, Ramos is better on the ball, but its not that big a difference.

Sure the percentages are the same , that's for various reasons the main one being Pepe usually just passes to Ramos or the fullback lol. He completes less passes because he doesn't really have the patience to play it out of defense.

Just hitting it up the field and having someone win a header but eventually give away the ball is not the same as a angled pass to the wing or playing it out of defense.

Alot of what Pepe does gets classified as ineffective clearances which doesn't really impact the stats.

But there's a difference in mentality there, looking to keep the ball in play and allow people to set up in areas where they are comfortable vs encouraging the frenzy and random chance that happens whenever you hoof it to the centre forward.

It's something that contributes on both ends.

So does his communication.

I may sound like I'm exaggerating but I'm not , one is free to place value judgement on whatever aspect of the game they feel to be important, I'm just pointing out a difference which contributes to a more holistic view.

You may not see this as having a impact defensively or otherwise. but I do...and in the same vein..even if it soley contributed to our play in an attacking sense , I would still value it in my analysis of him as a player....you might not and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just a different viewpoint.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:47 pm

This is simple,

1) Pepe is better than Ramos, no doubt about it. I no longer see him as a liability
2) Pepe and Ramos are not a natural fit, although talented, they both need a lot of effort to make it work
3) Ramos, you got your arse benched because you speaks too much, and you have been fracking dreadful in la liga
4) Fully agree with sports about the spanish press licking his arse so much that he believes he is better than he actually is.
5) Sergio is raw talent, not the brightest guy around, can be the best, but needs to keep his head down and work more.
6) Madrid press really hyping him too much

by Onyx Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:50 pm

Pepe passes the ball as well as Ramos?

Pepe can barely control the ball. Ramos is way more comfortable on the ball. Most of Pepe's passes are hoofs.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:52 pm

No they arent, Pepe is a very good passer now.

You guys need to watch players improve and not stick with cliches. His long balls have gotten better and better, as his composure since he is actually aware he is world class now.

by Onyx Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:02 pm

He's gotten better, but Ramos is still better and far more composed in terms of distribution imo.

by white_star Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:15 pm

GL Madrid fans :facepalm:

One time he is the best the next he is garbage or a noob.

Appreciate the players you have, Varane is good but he should not start in big games because experienced players will play him off the park. Say what you want about me but Ramos is not garbage and def should not be benched!

by Mr Nick09 Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:18 pm

what are you talking about? No one here said he is "garbage" or a "noob".

We said Pepe is better, and Ramos is going through a rather shitty spell of form.

No need to invent things to make your anti GL Madrid fans propaganda sound better

by white_star Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:21 pm

Why don't you read the fraking thread and those exact words are mentioned!

by Mr Nick09 Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:27 pm

white_star wrote:Why don't you read the fraking thread and those exact words are mentioned!

are you asking me to look for specific posts?

oh, i forgot you are a champion at using a single opinion and making it sound the opinion of the many

by Guest Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:30 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:He's gotten better, but Ramos is still better and far more composed in terms of distribution imo.

So far this season in La Liga Ramos has a pass accuracy of 81.4, Pepe is 81.7.

In terms of long balls Ramos has hit the target 34 times out of 52 for an accuracy of 65%.

Pepe on the other hand has hit the target 27 times out of 38 for an accuracy of 71%.

Seems that would prove you wrong.

by guest7 Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:07 pm

pepe also fouls alot less, i think ramos is quite stupid with his fouling, makes alot of stupid fouls and gets alot of stupid yellows

it might not seem like a big deal but considiring 50% of our goals so far into the season ahve been from set pieces it's hard to look past it

by Jack Daniels Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:08 pm

white_star wrote:Why don't you read the fraking thread and those exact words are mentioned!

What post coming from a Madrid fan says he is crap or garbage or whatever.

by Le Samourai Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:17 pm

Jack Daniels wrote:
white_star wrote:Why don't you read the fraking thread and those exact words are mentioned!
What post coming from a Madrid fan says he is crap or garbage or whatever.

Se7en wrote:I don't think Ramos would start for us at CB if he didn't have political protection. Mourinho probably benched him becouse we couldn't afford a loss and he is crap.

Varane deserves to start over Ramos. The pairing of Ramos-Pepe is just horrible and Ramos should return to RB and stop being so crap.

by sportsczy Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:21 pm

I think some people are reading this all wrong. Just the makeups of Ramos and Pepe are too similar and neither is a well-rounded CB... they are specific type of CB (aggressive, athletic and tough). If they were both more well rounded, then no problem really.

As such, they need a ying for their yang to be really good. Varane is the yang potentially. He's young and inexperienced. But he's like a Nesta in style of play.

You could pair Varane with either Pepe or Ramos and it would work great. But at this point Pepe is better than Ramos.

I personally think that a 3-man rotation should be put in place since we have so many games. As he gains more and more experience, i would pair Varane with one of those 2 in the more tactical games.

But in the end, i would wager one of Pepe or Ramos would need to get moved. Selling Varane would be idiotic.

by Jack Daniels Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:43 pm

Le Samourai wrote:
Jack Daniels wrote:
white_star wrote:Why don't you read the fraking thread and those exact words are mentioned!
What post coming from a Madrid fan says he is crap or garbage or whatever.
Se7en wrote:I don't think Ramos would start for us at CB if he didn't have political protection. Mourinho probably benched him becouse we couldn't afford a loss and he is crap.

Varane deserves to start over Ramos. The pairing of Ramos-Pepe is just horrible and Ramos should return to RB and stop being so crap.

Does Se7en equate too

white_star wrote:GL Madrid fans

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