Ah, Xavi… overrated in 2008, invisible in 2010 and worthless in 2012…
What’s wrong with Spain’s coaches??? Media hypnosis right there my friends

Xavi is just a hype created by the media

Zidane was great. He could be the only one in that generation who could make a race against Messi for Ballon d'Or. Looking him playing was a great pleasure, less spectacular than Messi but geniously too.

Zizou, Dinho, Baggio, R9, etc.could all compete with Messi, and at their best, are each probably better than him. Baggio was a while ago tho. But even without Baggio, youre telling me you think if Messi was around in the early 2000s up to 07ish with all these guys in their primes including R9, Zizous, Kaka, Dinho, Henry, Pirlo, Nesta, Cannavaro, Nedved, Figo, Totti, Del Piero, Buffon, Kahn, Ballack, etc it would still be an easy win for Messi? Plus Cristiano was around then too. (Much less Xavi), gimme a break.

Im not discrediting Xavi, im just pointing out that Spain is alot more than Xavi, which most of you fail to realize. To say "Xavi dominated two Euro finals and a WC final" is a complete LIE. Much less the entire tournaments.

juventus101 wrote:Zizou, Dinho, Baggio, R9, etc.could all compete with Messi, and at their best, are each probably better than him. Baggio was a while ago tho.

Im not discrediting Xavi, im just pointing out that Spain is alot more than Xavi, which most of you fail to realize. To say "Xavi dominated two Euro finals and a WC final" is a complete LIE. Much less the entire tournaments.

right. Messi scoring 70+ goals vs zidanes exquisite first touch ... I dont even... If xavi or inesta are coming third atm, no way in hell Zidane would win squat. Messi is twice the player ronaldinho was, more effective at everthing. R9 was at his best in his 1 season at Barcelona, Messi stats make every striker bar muller that came before him obsolete. Messi vs fat r9 that played fvor Real madrid? No compettition. When R9 played for Madrid he turned into a poachjer pretty much. Much of the hype was the same that Ronaldo is getting now, based on past exploits. Stilll a great player but again messi is twice as effective as all three of them combined.

One of

Crimson wrote:One of

Name the others superior to him please.

juventus101 wrote:Xavi hasnt controlled nsarly what you vuys are making it seem. You guys need to go back and watch the games luke i have, instead of just saying Xavi controlled this or that just because Spain won. Xavi had a decent Euro 08 but was outshone by Fabregas who was used as a sub. In 2010 David Villa was carrying Spain on his shoulders. They got past Germany through a Puyol header from a zonal marking mistake by Germany on a corner, while barely winning the midfield battle even though Spain had a 4 vs 2 numbers advantage, and Schweini was just as good as Xavi in that game anyways. Then Xavi barely did anything against the Netherlands, and was outshone by Sneijder and Spain was lucky that Ro ben was having an off day with his finishing (seems pretty common now, but usually hes pretty good at finishing chances). In 2012 he had 5 other CMs on the field supporting him. And Pirlo being at Juve now has nothing to do with it, ive always had massuvr respect for Pirlo. Pirlo is better in my opinion.

So much fail in one post.
Fact remains that Pirlo flopped in the Euro final and got completely owned by Xavi.
The fact that you think Schweini was as good as Xavi in the 2010 SF

briarfish wrote:Although I'm a fan of Barca (since 20 years) and very much like Xavi & Co., I must say that Pirlo was better in the EC. He did every thing right and was important for the team like no other. Xavi was quite good, but not great as he used to be. The problem is that Spain is too strong and has too many good midfield players around Xavi so that he could do anything he want.

I agree with this assessment.

Also, welcome to the forum.

Fact is,Xavi was better than Shweini in the Euro 2008 Final,The WC Semi's and the Bayern-Barca match at the Camp Nou in 2009.Xavi was the player of the tournament in the 2008 Euros and while some have argued that Senna was better I dont agree with that.Well and despite his not very convincing performance in this year's tournament he stepped up when it mattered the most and he completely owned Pirlo.

Wow so no one takes into account that before Italy went down to 10 men that Italy had more possession than Spain or that they basically had the same amout of chances except Spain were just more clinical?

Or why don't people bring up that every other spanish midfielder in every other match was outshining Xavi in every way possible?

Nope it doesn't matter because Xavi is everyones golden boy now and he deserves so much more praise than his midfield partners who if it weren't for spain wouldn't even be in the finals.

Xavi was outperformed by almost every other spain player over the euros but no lets call him the greatest midfielder of all times....

Also lets take away Pirlo's success with multiple teams over his career while playing football that doesn't bore the crap out of everyone over a whole tournament until the final comes around.

nichabr wrote:Wow so no one takes into account that before Italy went down to 10 men that Italy had more possession than Spain or that they basically had the same amout of chances except Spain were just more clinical?

Or why don't people bring up that every other spanish midfielder in every other match was outshining Xavi in every way possible?

Nope it doesn't matter because Xavi is everyones golden boy now and he deserves so much more praise than his midfield partners who if it weren't for spain wouldn't even be in the finals.

Xavi was outperformed by almost every other spain player over the euros but no lets call him the greatest midfielder of all times....

Also lets take away Pirlo's success with multiple teams over his career while playing football that doesn't bore the crap out of everyone over a whole tournament until the final comes around.

Spain were playing attacking football. I fear also that those stats are wrong. Italy domianted 15-25 minutes of play, Spain the rest of the game through possession stats. Spain were also playing more attacking football than possession football as well.

I think every single Madrid, Barca and Spanish fan has mentioned this and you Italian/Pirlo fans still don't understand is that Xavi is played out of position and clearly out of the three midfielders, he still has been the best though Iniesta has been . Xavi has done well, considering that he is playing in a more different, unusual position for himself and the fact that Alonso seems to be getting into his way...

Your third point is Definately needs praise... Xavi has played his part and well the rest of the team has to now. True, Alonso scored that all important goal agaisnt France in the opening 10-20 minutes though I feel you don't understand the build up play for that goal. Xavi was a major factor in that. He may not get direct assists but he is always a major factor of plays leading up to goals for Barca and Spain.

As Im going to say. Spain aren't boring. The play how they play, its the opponents that are boring. They don't attack Spain, more sit deep and allow them to keep possession. If you attack them and try to 'win' the ball, then Spain want keep as much possession therefore play is 'less boring'. I also feel 'viewers' are short attention span and expect to watch games like Club football on the weekend at the local football ground. International level is whole lot different. Regularly, will you see two teams playing on the counter.
The fact is Pirlo and Xavi are two of the greatest midfielders in the last decade of football.
Pirlo has been consistently great for Italy this Euro and thats why you Italian fans go praising him being the greatest dictating CM for the past 10 years but when you see Xavi play on his day, he is clearly better than Pirlo. Also, it doesn't matter if ypu play consistently well leading up to a final, its whether you can play great in the biggest occasion. Xavi did, Pirlo didn't.

paxtonpale wrote:

nichabr wrote:Wow so no one takes into account that before Italy went down to 10 men that Italy had more possession than Spain or that they basically had the same amout of chances except Spain were just more clinical?

Or why don't people bring up that every other spanish midfielder in every other match was outshining Xavi in every way possible?

Nope it doesn't matter because Xavi is everyones golden boy now and he deserves so much more praise than his midfield partners who if it weren't for spain wouldn't even be in the finals.

Xavi was outperformed by almost every other spain player over the euros but no lets call him the greatest midfielder of all times....

Also lets take away Pirlo's success with multiple teams over his career while playing football that doesn't bore the crap out of everyone over a whole tournament until the final comes around.

Spain were playing attacking football. I fear also that those stats are wrong. Italy domianted 15-25 minutes of play, Spain the rest of the game through possession stats. Spain were also playing more attacking football than possession football as well.

I think every single Madrid, Barca and Spanish fan has mentioned this and you Italian/Pirlo fans still don't understand is that Xavi is played out of position and clearly out of the three midfielders, he still has been the best though Iniesta has been . Xavi has done well, considering that he is playing in a more different, unusual position for himself and the fact that Alonso seems to be getting into his way...

Your third point is Definately needs praise... Xavi has played his part and well the rest of the team has to now. True, Alonso scored that all important goal agaisnt France in the opening 10-20 minutes though I feel you don't understand the build up play for that goal. Xavi was a major factor in that. He may not get direct assists but he is always a major factor of plays leading up to goals for Barca and Spain.

As Im going to say. Spain aren't boring. The play how they play, its the opponents that are boring. They don't attack Spain, more sit deep and allow them to keep possession. If you attack them and try to 'win' the ball, then Spain want keep as much possession therefore play is 'less boring'. I also feel 'viewers' are short attention span and expect to watch games like Club football on the weekend at the local football ground. International level is whole lot different. Regularly, will you see two teams playing on the counter.
The fact is Pirlo and Xavi are two of the greatest midfielders in the last decade of football.
Pirlo has been consistently great for Italy this Euro and thats why you Italian fans go praising him being the greatest dictating CM for the past 10 years but when you see Xavi play on his day, he is clearly better than Pirlo. Also, it doesn't matter if ypu play consistently well leading up to a final, its whether you can play great in the biggest occasion. Xavi did, Pirlo didn't.

When a viewer see teams attack from 0-90 they love football but when they see a team with some of the most agile and pacey players sitting back against teams they should be attacking they love that team but watching this euros a team that is supposed to be the greatest of all time just sitting back waiting for clearly weaker teams to push out and attack their are 2 words that come to mind frustration and boredom especially considering that team doesn't even need to sit back because the quality of their team is more than enough to win them matches. Also consider that the same players that play this way complain about other teams playing anti-football while they go through a whole tournament playing one game to their potential and it turned out to be practically their easiest match all tournament.

Now with this phrase "Xavi on his day" well look at it this way Pirlo performed in every match for Italy while Xavi has had one good match all tournament and even in that match he was outplayed by Iniesta, Fabregas and Alonso which speaks loads. Consider Xavi playing in Pirlo's shoes for that particular match who would be the one we were talking about right now?

In my opinion this Euro 2012 Spain side has carried Xavi because Silva ,Iniesta ,Xabi ,Busquets and Fabregas have all been better and more influential than Xavi in this tournament and even without Xavi Spain would have won the finals considering his assist for Alba was horribly defended and Italy as a whole were much more fatigued from their more adventurous play over the tournament.

nichabr wrote:

Now with this phrase "Xavi on his day" well look at it this way Pirlo performed in every match for Italy while Xavi has had one good match all tournament and even in that match he was outplayed by Iniesta, Fabregas and Alonso which speaks loads. Consider Xavi playing in Pirlo's shoes for that particular match who would be the one we were talking about right now?

In my opinion this Euro 2012 Spain side has carried Xavi because Silva ,Iniesta ,Xabi ,Busquets and Fabregas have all been better and more influential than Xavi in this tournament and even without Xavi Spain would have won the finals considering his assist for Alba was horribly defended and Italy as a whole were much more fatigued from their more adventurous play over the tournament.

Again with the fantasy scenario by these Serie A and Pirlo fans.

It is incredible, almost as though they are looking for faults in Xavi's game and only remembering those while they look for rights in Pirlo's game and only remembering those. If you watch games like that, then obviously, Xavi is going to be bad every single game and Pirlo awesome every single game.

Xavi had an awesome game in the final where he was second to none and he was good throughout the tournament. Granted Pirlo was better, but Xavi was outshone only by Iniesta among his teammates the whole tournament. Everyone else was at par with him.

You guys need to tone down your super bias a lot. Pirlo is awesome and for me it is hard to separate between the two. But no way in hell is Pirlo above Xavi at this point in time.

Wow. Some real idiocy here.

Xavi owned Pirlo? How so? Italy had more possession, just as many chances, they just werent as clinical. Spain also played 6 midfielders vs Italys 4. Italy other than Pirlo and Balotelli didnt even show.up. So how ddid Xavi outperform Pirlo again? Having 2 more midfielders than Pirlo supporting jim, yet still ha ing less possession(until we went down to 10 men) and creating an equal amount of chances? Ha.

In 2008 Schweinsteiger was a winver you idiot, si the Bayern-Barca and Germany-Spain games are irrelevant. And that was arguably Xavis best years, yet he barely got Spain past an aged Ballack and Kehl/Frings midfield, and needed Torres to pull something out of his ass to win.

In 2010 Spain was carried by David Villa, and lets look at the Germany-Spain game specifically. Germany were a mainly counterattacking team then, and were outnumbered in midfield avainst Spain 2 vs 4, yet still the midfidld battle was even and Spain won through a miracle Puyol header from blown zonal coverage.

Not to mention how Xavi and Spain were very lucky against the Netherlands in 2010, cuz if Robbens finishing was on that day they wouldve lost. Xavi was also outplayed by Sneijder in that game.

okay, this has gone on too long. Fantasy scenarios are not the way to argue.

juventus101 wrote:Wow. Some real idiocy here.

Xavi owned Pirlo? How so? Italy had more possession, just as many chances, they just werent as clinical. Spain also played 6 midfielders vs Italys 4. Italy other than Pirlo and Balotelli didnt even show.up. So how ddid Xavi outperform Pirlo again? Having 2 more midfielders than Pirlo supporting jim, yet still ha ing less possession(until we went down to 10 men) and creating an equal amount of chances? Ha.

Xavi had no attacking outlet to pass to the whole Euros. Yet, he brilliantly orchestrated Spain's attacking moves in the final specifically. he would constantly find players who made runs and used to drop back to build from the back. Several times he moved the ball forward by linking up with his teammates and dribbling the opposition players.

Compare this to Pirlo who often had 4 other players in the mid with an attacking outlet in Cassano and Balotelli to pass to.

Pirlo had the better attacking resources over Xavi. Against Spain Pirlo had to rely on Di Natale to pull something out of his ass to get a draw.

See, i can make the same fantasy arguments to make Pirlo look bad.

juventus101 wrote:
In 2008 Schweinsteiger was a winver you idiot, si the Bayern-Barca and Germany-Spain games are irrelevant. And that was arguably Xavis best years, yet he barely got Spain past an aged Ballack and Kehl/Frings midfield, and needed Torres to pull something out of his ass to win.

What are you even talking about? Xavi had 7-8 German players in front of him all the time and he was creating chances at will.

juventus101 wrote:
In 2010 Spain was carried by David Villa, and lets look at the Germany-Spain game specifically. Germany were a mainly counterattacking team then, and were outnumbered in midfield avainst Spain 2 vs 4, yet still the midfidld battle was even and Spain won through a miracle Puyol header from blown zonal coverage.

Not to mention how Xavi and Spain were very lucky against the Netherlands in 2010, cuz if Robbens finishing was on that day they wouldve lost. Xavi was also outplayed by Sneijder in that game.

Again, you are talking about non-existant events. You are right about the final as Robben had lots of chances, but Xavi was his usual self in the world cup and in the final. He was creating chances and building moves for Spain at will.

Now, please, stop making these points. They are false and something, likely that, only you have seen. Please watch the Euros and the world cup again with an unbiased frame of mind.

juventus101 wrote:Wow. Some real idiocy here.

Xavi owned Pirlo? How so? Italy had more possession, just as many chances, they just werent as clinical. Spain also played 6 midfielders vs Italys 4. Italy other than Pirlo and Balotelli didnt even show.up. So how ddid Xavi outperform Pirlo again? Having 2 more midfielders than Pirlo supporting jim, yet still ha ing less possession(until we went down to 10 men) and creating an equal amount of chances? Ha.

In 2008 Schweinsteiger was a winver you idiot, si the Bayern-Barca and Germany-Spain games are irrelevant. And that was arguably Xavis best years, yet he barely got Spain past an aged Ballack and Kehl/Frings midfield, and needed Torres to pull something out of his ass to win.

In 2010 Spain was carried by David Villa, and lets look at the Germany-Spain game specifically. Germany were a mainly counterattacking team then, and were outnumbered in midfield avainst Spain 2 vs 4, yet still the midfidld battle was even and Spain won through a miracle Puyol header from blown zonal coverage.

Not to mention how Xavi and Spain were very lucky against the Netherlands in 2010, cuz if Robbens finishing was on that day they wouldve lost. Xavi was also outplayed by Sneijder in that game.

Your quote is and Kiranr has answered all your 'queries'. One thing I need to say. Did David Villa dictate play? Xavi literally controlled every single game and dictated play as well as tge previous game. Against Germany, he was surrounded by Germans yet he still with ease controlled the game.

I see that juventus101 still didn't stop eith overrating German and Juve players.

Yeah, yeah. Schweinsteiger and Pirlo the best in the world, Ozil better than IniestaGermany to win Euros, Bayern to beat Chelsea with ease etc. You post so much nonsence in your biased posts, and you still can't stop. When will it end? What's next? Mario Gomez the best striker in the world? Oops, I think you wrote it here in the past. Stop with overrating German and Juve players.

No matter how much i prove it to you guhs hou wont admit youre wrong so i dont know why i keep this up but oh well.

Yea, Xavi did well against a very weak 08 Germany team. Good for him. He also had an excellent season for Barca that year (08-09), probably his bezt ever. Againzt Germany in 10, Spain had slightly more control over the game through the midfield but also had 2 more midfielders than Germany, so avain, thats more down to the numbeds advantage in midfield than Xavi himself, as Xavi did not outplay Schweinsteiger. He also did get outplayed by Sneijder in the final. Also, considering hos.bad fhe rest of Igaly was, the facg that Italy had jusg as much possession as Spain is sxtremely impressive for Pirlo. And what are you talking about? Cassano never got in the game and Balotelli was isolated up top. Those are not good outlets compared to having 5 midfidldsrs helping you out.

So your conclusion from what ur saying is that Shweini is better than Xavi???

I am sorry, but i don't agree that he got outplayed by Sneijder in the World cup final. He did his usual stuff and he created chances all game in that final. Plus Robben missed 2-3 chances created by Sneijder, but Xavi created just as many changes.

And Pirlo to Cassano who was on the wings at times was constant attacking outlet for Pirlo and also Pirlo's balls over the top to Balo. Not to mention 4 other midfielders.

Again it does not matter that Spain had more midfielders. Because everytime Xavi builds attacks he starts from the back, so invariably he is always facing 8 German players. Otherwise he stands in between the lines and creates chances from there.

All your points are very superficial, almost as though you have not watched any of the matches.

Please see what Xavi does in these games and then you might get convinced that he is one of, if not the best, CMs of all time.

Wait what? Holy crap people stop sounding delusional.

Spain beat Italy 4-0 in the final : "Italy were better but weren't clinical"

In all games vs Germany Schweini was as good and the midfield battle was even...WTF?!

Apparently if Xavi dominates a team it's only cause the other team played bad or was tactically wrong, not cause..well, you know...Xavi and co. dominated them.

Are you guys trolling or just stupid? I'm not even going to respond to any individual points because clearly you guys have absolutely no idea what went on in any of these games. Did you watch them?

Not sure whether to or

CBarca wrote:Wait what? Holy crap people stop sounding delusional.

Spain beat Italy 4-0 in the final : "Italy were better but weren't clinical"

In all games vs Germany Schweini was as good and the midfield battle was even...WTF?!

Apparently if Xavi dominates a team it's only cause the other team played bad or was tactically wrong, not cause..well, you know...Xavi and co. dominated them.

Are you guys trolling or just stupid? I'm not even going to respond to any individual points because clearly you guys have absolutely no idea what went on in any of these games. Did you watch them?

Not sure whether to or

No one said Italy were better you idiot so stop putting words in people mouth all im personally trying to do is make people stop with this nonsense about Xavi outperforming Pirlo when players like Fabregas and Iniesta were much more involved in restricting Pirlo. Xavi had one good match all tournament when things were extremely easy for him.

You guys are missing the entire point, the thread isn't even about Xavi vs Pirlo like you guys seem to want to make it because you guys are convinced Pirlo is a footballing god since he had a good Euro and a great season in the Serie A.

Anyway, the thread is about Xavi being the best dictating CM of all time (look at title and you'll see I'm right).

And clearly, he is. There is not so much debate to it.

And Xavi clearly did outperform Pirlo. I don't need anything but common sense and a pair of eyes while watching the final to see that. Stop being so biased lol.

Still not sure if you guys are trolling.

Schweinsteiger on his game is on the same level as Xavi, yes, but is also more complete than Xavi, or any other midfielder in the world right now.

And Cassano got the ball and lost it. Every time. If he had got the ball and buried it like Jordi Alba did, then this would be a completely different conversation. The thing is, Pirlos Italy had more possession than Xavis Spain (until we went down to 10 men), the deciding factor was the fact that Pirlos teammates failed to bury their chances. Xavis teammates were clinical. Plus Xavi had 5 other midfielders supporting him. Go and actually play soccer, cuz i do. Youll immediately realize if you play with more midfielders and lsss attackers it is easier to control the game.

So:
Possession: Italy (Pirlo).
Chances created by midfielders: Even.
Chances scored: Spain (Silva, Alba, Torres, Mata).

I fail to see how Xavi was better than Pirlo. Its a joke actually that you guys think that. Why dont a single one of you actually dispute something i say with facts, instead if always just trying to tell me im wrong with no proof.

I debate with what i see on the pitch. And on the pitch, i see Xavi producing amazing performance after amazing performance. Admittedly he has not produced that performance this season, but he was still better than Schweini this season whenever he played.

Whichever way you look at it, passing, link-up play, chances created, dribbling and most important of all, outcome, Xavi has been ahead. And over the past 4-5 seasons, he has been at his best which is frankly some of the best football the world has ever seen. It shows in the results too and how everyone of his peers acknowledge him to be one of the best players. He is a GOAT. You have to accept it sooner or later.

And quoting possession stats and saying Pirlo won it is not proof lol.