If Barcelona manage to retain the CL where would they rank amongst the greatest teams of all time?

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If Barcelona manage to retain the CL where would they rank amongst the greatest teams of all time? Empty If Barcelona manage to retain the CL where would they rank amongst the greatest teams of all time?

Post by jibers Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:48 pm

Where would you place them amongst such teams as Saachis Milan, Michels Ajax, super Bayern...etc


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Post by Mamad Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:49 pm

Best team of all time imo. not only the titles but the way they play.
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Post by Le Samourai Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:50 pm

Best team of their era already , we can leave it at that.
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Post by EarlyPrototype Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:51 pm

I can only talk about this generation........and they would easily be the greatest of my time. This is all hypothetical btw so don't get too happy. Real will win it. Very Happy
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:51 pm

2nd best team in history, after the River Plate of the 40s :coffee:
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Post by leemhuis Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:55 pm

Real Madrid won the European Club championship 5 times in a row. Many have won it twice in a row. Not very spectacular historically.
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Post by RealGunner Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:56 pm

they would be in top 5 of all time for sure.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:05 pm

I don't mean to belittle the accomplishments of those that won the European Cup consecutively, as it is a great trophy worthy of admiration, but in comparison to it's modern-day version it was child's play. There is a reason why no one has won the CL twice in a row but that was not that odd in the EC, and it's that only the best from each country was allowed to compete. Imagine a CL where the best 8 teams would be Manchester United, Dortmund, Milan, Lille, Porto, Barcelona, Ajax and Rangers. How far have most of those teams made it in today's format?


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Post by leemhuis Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:14 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I don't mean to belittle the accomplishments of those that won the European Cup consecutively, as it is a great trophy worthy of admiration, but in comparison to it's modern-day version it was child's play.

Actually, it was far more difficult to win. Only real league champions competed and there were no easy games. To win it more than once you had to have a team that was far, far superior to the others.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:20 pm

The real champions still compete, with the addition of the best teams in their league. I don't see how it can be anyway but harder now.
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Post by VivaStPauli Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:23 pm

If they defend their title I'll stop talking down their impressive domination of the current era. But TBH there is still the subjective perception that they've been "lucky" in that most other giants have collapsed as of recent, but TBH if they beat Real again, or go through current Bayern in on the way to the UCL title... Well, Bayern and Real are good enough ATM to have dominated 10 years ago.

So if Barca win again, there's really not much you can say against them, aside of being unlikable, crowding the ref, diving, cheating, and whining, but they're still the best at ze football, no matter how much we bitch and moan.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I don't mean to belittle the accomplishments of those that won the European Cup consecutively, as it is a great trophy worthy of admiration, but in comparison to it's modern-day version it was child's play. There is a reason why no one has won the CL twice in a row but the that was not that odd in the EC, and it's that only the best from each country was allowed to compete. Imagine a CL where the best 8 teams would be Manchester United, Dortmund, Milan, Lille, Porto, Barcelona, Ajax and Rangers. How far have most of those teams made it in today's format?

Thats true and a relevant point, but you have to look deeper than that to make such a big claim. For example the best players were spread across more evenly, in serie a for example juventus had platini and laudrup, napoli had maradona, inter had lothar matthaus, ac milan had van basten and gullit, even udinese somehow manged to get zico. Two lower league clubs (napoli and udinese) managed to get two of the greatest players of all time for crying out loud! could you imagine that happening now? almost impossible. You have 2 super stacked teams that no one can compete with (well, we will see how bayern manage against madrid), to me barcelona has less competition beyond real madrid now than they would have had in the past.

I mean real madrid can afford to keep a former world player of the year on their bench, thats when you know something has gone wrong drinking

edit: they did not get diego and zico when they were unknown either, they were massive transfers. Equivelent would now be say, everton signing messi!
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Post by Ganso Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:42 pm

with little doubt,the best of all time and messi would be in the Pele-Maradona tier if he already isnt.

Ill never forget the refs though :vagi:



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Post by BarrileteCosmico Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:42 pm

Diego Armando Maradona wrote:Thats true and a relevant point, but you have to look deeper than that to make such a big claim. For example the best players were spread across more evenly, in serie a for example juventus had platini and laudrup, napoli had maradona, inter had lothar matthaus, ac milan had van basten and gullit, even udinese somehow manged to get zico. Two lower league clubs (napoli and udinese) managed to get two of the greatest players of all time for crying out loud! could you imagine that happening now? almost impossible. You have 2 super stacked teams that no one can compete with (well, we will see how bayern manage against madrid), to me barcelona has less competition beyond real madrid now than they would have had in the past.
If anything, doesn't that bolster my argument? The fact that in the previous formats stars did not play in the CL, whereas they do now, means that the competition has achieved a higher level of quality. It may not be as spread-out now as before, but the best are playing the cup, which was something that did not happen as recently as Maradona's age.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:47 pm

The thing is the majority of the best are playing in just two teams. Example: Barcelona took the best player from england (fabregas) and now hes not even that important to them, real took germanys best player (sahin) and i dont even need to explain what happened there....
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Post by Rebaño Sagrado Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:49 pm

2nd best team in history, after Chivas of the 50s
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Post by S32TABLANCA Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:50 pm

Well, the old European Cup only had champions, so to win it means you won your own league, then won the EC. To win it FIVE CONSECUTIVE TIMES mean you are dominating your own country as well as the continent.

OT, Barca will be up there if they defend the CL. In my mind though, another CL doesnt really make too much of a difference. They are already one of the best teams of all time without defending the trophy.
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Post by Dnmac4 Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:53 pm

leemhuis wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:I don't mean to belittle the accomplishments of those that won the European Cup consecutively, as it is a great trophy worthy of admiration, but in comparison to it's modern-day version it was child's play.

Actually, it was far more difficult to win. Only real league champions competed and there were no easy games. To win it more than once you had to have a team that was far, far superior to the others.

You do notice that your theory is totally wrong, correct? With the version your talking about all of the teams that won there leagues in this years event are knocked out already except Barcelona at this stage of the event.

I mean some of the statements on this forum are just stunning. It's like zombies incapable of independent thought just type what ever is in there tunnel vision for whatever rhetoric there pushing that day are sitting behind the computers.

Also, just because you win a league the year before doesn't mean that your better then the second or third place teams from other leagues or that you will keep that level of play up into the next season. It's like saying Dortmond are better then Madrid and playing Madrid in this years CL is an "easy" game.
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Post by DuringTheWar Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:05 pm

Sorry just want to add this as well, although the distribution of world class players meant many missed out on playing in the first tier european competition, which you rightly point out detracts from the quality of the competition, it would make it more challenging for a team to qualify for it in the first place. Does that not add weight to the achievement of winning it? if qualification to it is a lot more difficult? for a top player playing in the "champions league" would not be something to take for granted as much as it is now
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Post by Dnmac4 Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:09 pm

I don't think Barca has to win this year to cement anything. As a Barca fan I don't think this years team is as strong as some of the other that have won the CL so for me I have already seen the best of what the current Barca set up has achieved.

For my money the best team was with Eto'o, Henry, Yaya, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Pique, Abidal, Alves, Busquets, Pedro, Marquez, Keita, Sylvinho, Hleb, Gudjohnsen, Bojan, and Valdes. This team has a similar core but in my humble opinion the team I just listed would mop the floor with the current team so I don't really see what this team winning a CL has to do with my opinion of the current set up.

I would place the team I listed in the top 3 of all time as no one can ever just say one team is better then everyone else. I can tell you I have lived on this earth for 31 years and have been following football very closely for the last 15 years and this by far is the best team I have ever seen.

To say one team is the best of all time is just so disrespectful to teams I have never seen play so I can't have any appreciation for how good they are.
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Post by jibers Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:10 pm

I have already said that I feel that Bacelona are benefiting from the fact that most teams are at the end of their cycles. That being said, this Real Madrid team is probably the best Real Madrid team I have ever seen, definatley the best of my lifetime. If they happen to beat them again and win the leg from a 10 point deficit, they will go down as one of the best teams ever, if they aren't already. The scary thing is that with pep restructuring their youth system, the infrastructure in place means that as long as it is used correctly, Barcelona are sorted for generations to come, God help us all...
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Post by jibers Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:12 pm

dnmac4 wrote:I don't think Barca has to win this year to cement anything. As a Barca fan I don't think this years team is as strong as some of the other that have won the CL so for me I have already seen the best of what the current Barca set up has achieved.

For my money the best team was with Eto'o, Henry, Yaya, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Pique, Abidal, Alves, Busquets, Pedro, Marquez, Keita, Sylvinho, Hleb, Gudjohnsen, Bojan, and Valdes. This team has a similar core but in my humble opinion the team I just listed would mop the floor with the current team so I don't really see what this team winning a CL has to do with my opinion of the current set up.

I would place the team I listed in the top 3 of all time as no one can ever just say one team is better then everyone else. I can tell you I have lived on this earth for 31 years and have been following football very closely for the last 15 years and this by far is the best team I have ever seen.

To say one team is the best of all time is just so disrespectful to teams I have never seen play so I can't have any appreciation for how good they are.

The Barcelona you are refering to is the 09 Barcelona correct? I think last season was the best Barcelona side I have ever seen and the best team I have watched in my lifetime. I think that the current Madrid are better than the 09 Barcelona. Last season was a joke. Never seen a team that was so hard to beat.
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Post by Dnmac4 Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:21 pm

jibers wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:I don't think Barca has to win this year to cement anything. As a Barca fan I don't think this years team is as strong as some of the other that have won the CL so for me I have already seen the best of what the current Barca set up has achieved.

For my money the best team was with Eto'o, Henry, Yaya, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Pique, Abidal, Alves, Busquets, Pedro, Marquez, Keita, Sylvinho, Hleb, Gudjohnsen, Bojan, and Valdes. This team has a similar core but in my humble opinion the team I just listed would mop the floor with the current team so I don't really see what this team winning a CL has to do with my opinion of the current set up.

I would place the team I listed in the top 3 of all time as no one can ever just say one team is better then everyone else. I can tell you I have lived on this earth for 31 years and have been following football very closely for the last 15 years and this by far is the best team I have ever seen.

To say one team is the best of all time is just so disrespectful to teams I have never seen play so I can't have any appreciation for how good they are.

The Barcelona you are refering to is the 09 Barcelona correct? I think last season was the best Barcelona side I have ever seen and the best team I have watched in my lifetime. I think that the current Madrid are better than the 09 Barcelona. Last season was a joke. Never seen a team that was so hard to beat.

Yes, 09 Barca. And I would have to disagree with you. Just from the CF play alone the 09 team was better IMO. Villa was up and down all year last year where as Eto'o was a monster in 09. Going forward they were such a machine and just had a lot more raw talent on the pitch.

Plus you had Puyol in his prime and Xavi was also in his prime not slowing down a little bit and Messi is better now but then again we didn't depend on him as much in 09 as we did last year and this year. Plus IMO Yaya is better then Busquets but who cares they were both on the 09 team and both played. Not to mention Pedro was incredible and Henry had his moments of brilliance. The team you mention is just smaller and way more dependent on Messi plus some of the key players are not at there physical peak.

And BTW, the Madrid team your talking about, we have dominated them this year with a watered down squad IMO. I don't know how they could be better then the 09 squad because this years Barca is by no means better then 09 Barca.
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Post by Albiceleste Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:21 pm

3rd best team in history after 1973 Huracan and 2009 Huracan Razz

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Post by RED Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:30 pm

RealGunner wrote:they would be in top 5 of all time for sure.
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