Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea

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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:15 am

I am interested in knowing who you all think are the best possible options for these two clubs given what is available in the market. Here are my choices.


Inter Milan

Carlos Dunga plain and simple.

Inter have not expressed any desire as such to play beautiful football. Their aim is to win.

Some here would know how highly I rate Dunga. I don't buy any of the ideas that he is not accustomed to European football. I am sure he will pickup things very fast. He is a winner, a pragmatist, a quality tactician and someone who always looks to better things rather than leaving them the way they are. Also a few people believe that he is not interested in moving to Europe. I say how do you know for sure. At least try contacting his agents and presenting a decent offer. I wish someone would tweet or SMS this name to Moartti because the market seems to have completely forgotten about him.

I know they wanted Andres Villas Boas. He is a good option but based on one season he could be over-hyped. There is a huge release clause for him and Dunga comes free. I know who I would go for.

Also Inter were very keen on Marcelo Bielsa. Besides even dani wrote some praise for him. However I would choose Dunga over Bielsa any day at least for a pragmatic team. I would give Bielsa credit for being innovative with formations and tactics and trying to play attractively but I cannot ignore the mistakes he has made. In WC 2002 he forced Argentina to play with just one striker - the aging Batistuta with the red hot Crespo left on the bench. After being second favorites for the trophy behind France Argentina made a first round exit. As for the WC 2010 Chile team it was really slick and very nice to watch but I thought the team were just not good enough defensively. A top team would likely take them to the cleaners just like Brazil did. At Inter that is a must and hence I would have probably never gone for Bielsa.



Chelsea

Now in this case the owner has displayed a very open fascination for beautiful football. At the same time they want to win of course.

If they can get Guus Hiddink then I won't even propose an alternative.

If not then I think Frank Rijkaard deserves another big chance. He would give them the quality football they want. Let's not forget that he is good at integrating youngsters into the team which is cited as the one major negative in case of Ancelotti. I will never forget how brilliantly he helped Iniesta to grow into the first team. The problem with Rijkaard is that how would he manage the massive egos in that dressing room. It's a known failing of his. So the alternative is the other Dutch man Marco van Basten. He's a better disciplinarian but I think our former coach is at least a slightly better tactician.


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Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea Empty Re: Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea

Post by The Franchise Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:35 am

Great thread.

Inter

Dunga is a great choice I believe, you put all his strengths together nicely. Top candidate.

Bielsa is one of my very Favourite coaches. He perhaps made that mistake in 02' but every coach has made a mistake, its not a big deal. Chile's lack of defender was more due to individuals not being up to snuff. His 3-3-1-1 formation would be a hit on Serie A, its made for that league. He is also known for other formations like the 3-4-1-2 which again would work excellently there.

But hasnt he agreed to coach Bilbao?

Other choices?

Capello maybe? I dont see how it will ever work for him in England. Want a tactically sound winner? As good a choice as any.

Would have to pay I think though.




Chelsea

Hiddink stands out of course. But I am not ready to jump on his bandwagon.

He gets teams to overachieve, nothing proven in terms of coaching giants.

He is a good a choice as any though, the core group of players know him. Though I think the team is a finished cycle and needs major retooling no matter who comes.

Frank Rijkaard? I love him for what he has done for us, but he would get eaten alive by Chelsea's locker room and there ill-disciplined group. Big Phil Scolari fell out with the temperamental Drogba, Terry in public questions Capello, simply put, too many of them are too big for their boots. Its not a problem with the right coach, but Frank isnt it.

If he had Henk Ten Cate with him, then sure, but without an enforcer behind the scences, I just dont believe in him. Heck, the Chelsea players feel out with him (which isnt surprising) so maybe it takes even more then that.


It seems Andre Villas Boas is the most likely at the moment, on a personal level its sad and disappointing. I did think he would wait a season, the move will still be on next year.



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Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea Empty Re: Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea

Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:28 pm

Looks like Villas Boas is going to Chelsea.

I agree with Dunga for Inter, but it seems like they're going for Capello.
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Post by messixaviesta Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:26 am

dani and alfred, thanks for the replies.

Although this thread didn't become popular it still pleases me that two of my top favorite posters replied.

dani, I agree completely about Dunga.

About Bielsa yes you may be right. The point about the defensive players for Chile not being good enough I perhaps overlooked. Yes he seems to have committed to Bilbao if a certain president wins the election. Have you ever thought why someone would choose Bilbao over Inter?

Agree completely that nothing will work for Capello in England. They too want him out but since it's too late to get a replacement before Euyro 2012 they insist on persisting with him. The only point I have against Capello is the one Carlo Garganese made some time back - has been a failure in knock out competition for many years.

About Hiddink, I think your nothing proven comment is a little harsh. He won UCL with PSV long back. He took Holland to the WC 1998 final where they gave the then world's best team Brazil containing a prime Ronaldo a real game and only exited on penalties. I think they would have won Euro 2000 if they had Hiddink instead of Rijkaard but maybe it's just me. I think he grew as a coach but spent his best years with smaller teams. At that time he would have won quite a lot with big teams I think as indicated by his short stay at Chelsea. Now why didn't they get Hiddink? I guess based on what I have heard Hiddink is very loyal to contracts - a complete anti-thesis of Capello in that sense. Turkey don't want to release him and that's that. Also he is not too sure of becoming a club coach again. Maybe he will become sporting director at Chelsea soon.

About Rijkaard, sadly what you say is true.

Yes now it seems Villas-Boas is finalized. I feel you. This breaks up Porto. It would have been interesting to see just what they can do in UCL. However now they will most probably lose one or more key players as well.



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Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea Empty Re: Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea

Post by BarrileteCosmico Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:32 am

@messixaviesta wrote:About Bielsa yes you may be right. The point about the defensive players for Chile not being good enough I perhaps overlooked. Yes he seems to have committed to Bilbao if a certain president wins the election. Have you ever thought why someone would choose Bilbao over Inter?
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:
@wigglesworth wrote:
@Interista809 wrote:Come on Wigg if you of all people thinks we are screwed then what hope is there.

So many things all negative, plus not even one rumor that we are buying anyone. Look at Juve, Milan and Roma.

Plus, how embarrassing is it that Bielsa chose Athletic Club (Bilbao) over Inter?

Bielsa chooses clubs based on how much control he gets. He likes to take control of youth developing and everything in between that and the senior team. It's likely that Bielsa didn't reject Inter for sporting reasons, but because of the power dynamics.
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Post by messixaviesta Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:52 am

alfred, very interesting thoughts.

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Post by The Franchise Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:05 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:dani and alfred, thanks for the replies.

Although this thread didn't become popular it still pleases me that two of my top favorite posters replied.

dani, I agree completely about Dunga.

About Bielsa yes you may be right. The point about the defensive players for Chile not being good enough I perhaps overlooked. Yes he seems to have committed to Bilbao if a certain president wins the election. Have you ever thought why someone would choose Bilbao over Inter?

Agree completely that nothing will work for Capello in England. They too want him out but since it's too late to get a replacement before Euyro 2012 they insist on persisting with him. The only point I have against Capello is the one Carlo Garganese made some time back - has been a failure in knock out competition for many years.

About Hiddink, I think your nothing proven comment is a little harsh. He won UCL with PSV long back. He took Holland to the WC 1998 final where they gave the then world's best team Brazil containing a prime Ronaldo a real game and only exited on penalties. I think they would have won Euro 2000 if they had Hiddink instead of Rijkaard but maybe it's just me. I think he grew as a coach but spent his best years with smaller teams. At that time he would have won quite a lot with big teams I think as indicated by his short stay at Chelsea. Now why didn't they get Hiddink? I guess based on what I have heard Hiddink is very loyal to contracts - a complete anti-thesis of Capello in that sense. Turkey don't want to release him and that's that. Also he is not too sure of becoming a club coach again. Maybe he will become sporting director at Chelsea soon.

About Rijkaard, sadly what you say is true.

Yes now it seems Villas-Boas is finalized. I feel you. This breaks up Porto. It would have been interesting to see just what they can do in UCL. However now they will most probably lose one or more key players as well.



Why Bilbao over Inter? Probably as Alf said, makes a ton of sense given what kind of coach he is. His style and tactics are very clear, he needs a certain amount of control over team direction. Also perhaps a factor is language, as he speaks Spanish and I assume he doesnt speak Italian.

Capello in KO competitions? He won the CL in 93, no worse then Hiddink.

Hiddink won in 88', which seems an age ago. Holland to the final in 98? I believe it was the semi, and eventually forth place no? Yes, did well vs Brazil, but lets no confuse that the Dutch has a incredible amount of talent themselves and 4th isn't nothing to be to happy with. Overall, I am not saying Hiddink isnt a great coach, but I am not ready to believe in him just yet.

AVB has annoyed me, leaving after just 1 year. 2 seasons and I would of been fine with him leaving, but this seems a bit quick for someone who has been a Porto fan his entire life.

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Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea Empty Re: Off Topic : Let's Recommend Coaches For Inter Milan and Chelsea

Post by BarcaKizz Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:33 pm

@The Franchise wrote:
AVB has annoyed me, leaving after just 1 year. 2 seasons and I would of been fine with him leaving, but this seems a bit quick for someone who has been a Porto fan his entire life.


A silly move for both parties in my opinion. Villas Boas should have stayed another season, I think he owed it to the fans. As for Chelsea, they didn't need to do this... they could have got other great coaches. They're drawing more attention to their overzealous transfer policy. I don't think managers should ever leave a club if the club doesn't want them to, and Chelsea basically forced this. VB could be great, but its still a risk, he's had just 1 year and there are no guarantees he'll be the next Mou for Chelsea. They should have played it more safely imo.
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Post by gk77 Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:21 pm

I don't think Dunga would be the right coach for Inter, he seems to play a bit too defensively and likes to counterattack...they should get Hiddink or Rijkaard.

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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:30 am

@The Franchise wrote:

Why Bilbao over Inter? Probably as Alf said, makes a ton of sense given what kind of coach he is. His style and tactics are very clear, he needs a certain amount of control over team direction. Also perhaps a factor is language, as he speaks Spanish and I assume he doesnt speak Italian.

Capello in KO competitions? He won the CL in 93, no worse then Hiddink.

Hiddink won in 88', which seems an age ago. Holland to the final in 98? I believe it was the semi, and eventually forth place no? Yes, did well vs Brazil, but lets no confuse that the Dutch has a incredible amount of talent themselves and 4th isn't nothing to be to happy with. Overall, I am not saying Hiddink isnt a great coach, but I am not ready to believe in him just yet.

AVB has annoyed me, leaving after just 1 year. 2 seasons and I would of been fine with him leaving, but this seems a bit quick for someone who has been a Porto fan his entire life.


Nice points about Bielsa choosing Bilbao.

My bad. I definitely meant semi final in WC 1998. I never forget these things. Just somehow missed the word semi.

I won't read too much into the Dutch losing the third place playoff in 1998. They were exhausted and had no motivation left while for Croatia who had already over-achieved it was a different matter. Actually some have said that the third place playoff is a meaningless match that should be stopped and I agree with that. What I will always appreciate is that it took Brazil penalties to beat them. What could have happened if they had met France in the final? I guess it would be nearly 50-50 with France only having the home advantage over the Dutch.

I agree that perhaps we cannot call Hiddink the best in knock out competitions but I still would rate him higher than Capello. Capello has lost at times when he was just not expected to. Remember the formidable Juventus team of 2004-05 and how they needed just a goal to get past a very mediocre Liverpool and couldn't do that. It's at those times that the tactical abilities of Rafa Benitez began to be widely appreciated. Also the very next year an almost as good Juventus was thrashed by an underrated Arsenal side. I think both these incidents show quite badly on the manager.

Let me put it this way. As of today how many coaches would I take above Hiddink. Pep Guardiola certainly. Vicente Del Bosque maybe. Hate to see it but Jose Mourinho if style has no relevance and only results matter. However even Sir Alex Ferguson's tactics are not impressive in knock out competitions. Capello I have already elaborated about. So I guess Hiddink would be at least fourth on my list in spite of not having a very impressive trophy haul for various reasons.

I understand your annoyance with AVB but in today's world everyone mainly lives for themselves.

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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:38 am

@BarcaKizz wrote:
A silly move for both parties in my opinion. Villas Boas should have stayed another season, I think he owed it to the fans. As for Chelsea, they didn't need to do this... they could have got other great coaches. They're drawing more attention to their overzealous transfer policy. I don't think managers should ever leave a club if the club doesn't want them to, and Chelsea basically forced this. VB could be great, but its still a risk, he's had just 1 year and there are no guarantees he'll be the next Mou for Chelsea. They should have played it more safely imo.

Exactly. Who knows Villas Boas will be a success at Chelsea? Given the history of coaches at that club, it wouldn't be a surprise at all if he turned out to be one more failure.

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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:44 am

@gk77 wrote:I don't think Dunga would be the right coach for Inter, he seems to play a bit too defensively and likes to counterattack...they should get Hiddink or Rijkaard.

Depends what your targets are. As I said before do you want the team to play with style and flair. However they didn't under Mourinho and won the treble which meant much more to them. Dunga is one of the closest approximations to Jose Mourinho in my eyes ( of course minus the ruffian like behavior ).

Then again you do have a point. The current Inter is becoming a little more inclined towards flair. Now there are reports that our very own Pep Guardiola will join them next summer. As a Barcelona fan this rumor is so hard to take. What can he get at Inter that we can't give him? Even this new challenge business doesn't make much sense to me. He is so young and will have enough time for new challenges. Right now he should stay with this team and break records such as becoming the next coach after Bob Paisley to win three European cups, set the longest ever league title winning streak, etc. If he does leave us then I hope he will at least take a sabbatical rather than immediately facing us as a rival.

Inter's coach is expected to be confirmed soon and the name is Gian Piero Gasperini. Now I do believe that for bigger and better things, Dunga would be a better choice but it's only a matter of opinion. If Milan can get so much out of Massimiliano Allegri then Inter would feel the same way about Gasperini. At least this is a better idea than appointing Claudio Ranieri.

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