Very little doubt in my mind, Messi has peaked

People are gonna say that this is knee jerk, and hopefully it is, but I really don't know anymore...

Seeing as I'm a self confessed, full fledged Diego fan boy, maybe this may be hard to read but I want to know. Can there be any truth to this...

The training is better. Their diets are better. The tactics are superior. Their opposition and pitches are better. I've heard it all before, but my eyes don't lie... I've seen this all before.

For the past few weeks/months I've been seeing something that sits poorly with me, Messi being human. Missing stuff that even I in my little imaginary world, wouldn't miss. I first said it was a one off, but one off's don't keep on happening do they? It's not (now weekly) one offs, it's simply Messi being human. He CANNOT KEEP IT UP!

I like everyone else here keeps thinking, "wow, this guy is only 24 years old... surely the greatest to play at that age. Just imagine him at 27!" Well thinking about it, I would bet just about anything in the world that he won't be any where remotely as good as he is now when he's 27. How could he be though??? Football and training have evolved to such a level that these guys are way beyond their predecessors. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but generally the norm is going to be a far earlier peak from yesteryear. It's reaching a point now where I'm asking myself if Messi at just 24 years old is actually regressing? Forget the penalties. When last has he even attempted to chip a keeper? You may say well, that not a big deal, but think about it. If you're a keeper and you know there's no chip coming, you can storm out with confidence and basically know that it's just 50/50 from there. Left or right. Such a huge weapon, why has he forsaken it? Makes him a whole lot more predictable. This is a tool in his arsenal that he should be using more with his now vast experience, however it's now non-existent in his game. Puzzling.

On to Dribbling: It may just be me, but in the past I can't recall ever seeing him lose the ball as much as he does now. He's dribbling less which is natural, cause he's getting older and using his smarts, picking when to dribble, which is all great... but the problem is (in my eyes), he's actually losing the ball more now - dribbling less, losing the ball more. No matter how you wanna justify or spin that, it's not good. Put another way, what does Messi do today that he didn't do as well or better in at least 2 years gone by? Be honest with yourselves. What is he better at? I'll give him the killer through ball but that was always going to come. Every single player gets better at passing, that's given. In my mind, he doesn't do anything other than that better. One could argue it's quite the contrary. But wait, isn't he supposed to peak at 25? Isn't he supposed to be getting clearly better? Sorry to say, from where I'm sitting, he's clearly not getting better. And don't for a second bring up stats cause all I've been seeing lately is his teammates give up GREAT opportunities to feed him the ball. Frustratingly so! Stats won't and can't show that. Stats are not going to tell the whole story the same way they didn't when CR7 broke the la liga record last year. It's shameful at times the way these guys are spoon fed.

From where I'm sitting, the simple truth is that Messi is an early bloomer. Hell, all footballers are nowadays with the training that now exists. This is why I always say, don't judge him now... judge him after he hangs up his boots. Things are entirely different now from days gone by, a player now at 24 is "probably" equivolant to a player close to 30, two decades ago. That's why comparing Messi to Pele, Platini, Zico, Maradona, insert name here, when they were 24, is utterly ridiculous. It doesn't work that way. It can't, these players simply can't continue excelling. They're gonna hit their peak a lot earlier.

Wish I was wrong but I know in my heart, we've already seen the best of Messi. A little disappointing considering his age, but training nowadays is too rigorous for these guys to keep these ridiculous levels up. No matter the player, no matter the generation, you get a really SPECIAL 4-5 years of pure genius... after that, it's more reputation than anything else that will carry you. Hope I'm wrong but deep down inside, I know I'm absolutely right. Seen it too many times before... and I'll bet quite a bit that it's happening here right before my very eyes, yet again. Sadly enough...

42 games/ 3605 minutes (club+NT) since 14.8, 5 times against RMA etc. Is all you really need to know, he's tired, that's all.

I think this is a kneejerk reaction but Messi has been playing 7 years straight consistently and about 5 years with no rest. Fatigue is clearly what is affecting him and I'm sure once he rests abit he will return.

Although I like this Messi... He isn't a bad player like this. He is human. Feels more fair to football.

Simple reason really, changed his diet from Burger King to McDonalds. He needs to change it back. You can't go from a whooper to a big mac and not expect a drop in performance tbh.

jiopsi wrote:42 games/ 3605 minutes (club+NT) since 14.8, 5 times against RMA etc. Is all you really need to know, he's tired, that's all.

Not sure he's tired. By now he's more than accustomed to Barca's ridiculous schedule. And when we factor in that you're supposed to get stronger & better at 25-27, that seems more like an excuse.

Btw: contrary to popular belief I'm the biggest Messi fan boy alive, I just judge him by a MUCH HIGHER standard than most here. Which probably comes off some-what hateful or unappreciative.

On a more serious note, I think it is down to fatigue and the stupid (lack of) propr pre season training. He is playing almost every game for Barcelona.

He's feeling the heat imo

GOATnaldo is on track to winning his second golden boot in a row (third overall), potentially his first league, hell maybe even the Champions League.

All while improving as a player by the passing day, against Getafe he shut down the left wing defensively, I couldn't believe what I was seeing

--------------------------------------

trolloing aside I think Messi might be a bit tired therefore he isn't quite as focused. I don't see anything wrong with him physically, he's clearly perfectly healthy. Just a lack of focus.

(or hgh is catching up with him.trololol)

Yea Jibers is right......I was amazed that he was on vacation right up to the Supercopa.

You need to condition yourself in preparation for such a rigorous schedule.Especially if you wanna play every singe game.

he has played an amazingly vast amount of consecutive minutes all these years and this year more than any other Brca's goalscoring is uppon his shoulders. No villa, no pedro, no eto'o no henry. all messi.

all these reasons take their toll and still he is performing great

Also.....whether or not he continues to score 50 a season for the next 10 years is not really important.

Whether he does that or not he has more to his game than just scoring.I wouldn't be surprised by the time he's finished he's Cm.Great players adjust.

I guess I wouldn't come to that conclusion after just a few weeks of bad form. I would give him a good few months, before I can make any justified conclusion of him reaching his peak

I think it would be safe to say that he has peaked if he was still trying on the field and running a lot, yet not delivering the right results.
However, he looks pretty tired, does not run as much and seems less motivated than before. Maybe something else is distracting him, apart from the obvious fatigue, that is contributing to his bad form


But at his peak? well he might be, but this is more of a plateau than a peak. A plateau that willl last years

1- With 37 goals and 19 assists, Messi has been directly involved in 48% (56/117) of Barcelona's goals this season in 36games [33 starts].

2- No Pedro, No Villa, No Eto'o, No Henry etc.. like billy said.. Messi has to perform & score in every match..

3- Messi game is not just about scoring goals, he creates chances for his teammates, through dribbling opponents, opening spaces or by using with his passing/vision!

So Messi at 30+ can play in the midfield, and still be one of the best/important players in his team/world...

4- Messi didn't rest since WC 2010..
2009/2010, Summer: WC 2010, 2010/2011, Summer: Copa America 2011, 2011-2012

This Summer he can have 6+ weeks rest ! which will help him alot to recover & come even more stronger in 2012/2013..
What's great about Messi, even in his worst matches, he can still be the most effective in the world, example: yesterday Vs Real Sociedad, he had bad finishing still scored 1 goal and assisted another !!
-----------------------

~ Stats at Barca:


at 18 2005-2006: 8goals + 4 assists
at 19 2006-2007: 17goals + 3 assists
at 20 2007-2008: 16goals + 17 assists
at 21 2008-2009: 38goals + 18 assists [ CL Top Scorer]
at 22 2009-2010: 47goals + 14 assists [CL Top Scorer]
at 23 2010-2011: 53 goals + 24 assists [ CL Top Scorer]
at 24 2011-2012 [so far]: 37goals + 19 assists [ already matches his stats of 08/09] !!!

==> Messi 25> Messi 24 !

Fun fact: Last 3-4 times Vapotrini visited forum was when Messi missed his first penalty in october, barcelona lost to inter previous season and other his bad days. Simple fact is that he immediately comes to the forum to bash messi when he is in bad form. interesting why he is not making these threads when messi makes hat-tricks or great performances - simple his thread would be senseless and locked immediately

Like khaled said messi's worst perfromance is better than 90% players performances in the world. simple because he doesnt depend on scoring goals, he is just more than that. yesterday barcelona created 11-12 chances messi involved almost in all.

Even chances that he missed was created by himself. thats why people dont bash him much when he misses (like torres or CR). Crowd was singing messi messi after he missed his chances. you wonder why? because if it was another player they would whistle him. the answer is messi involves in attacks, he creates them and misses, thats acceptable compared to players that score tap-ins

I remember making a thread in the old goal.com forums questioning whether, regardless of age, there was a theoretical limit on the number of miles in a players legs (and not just in football either)....I used Kobe Bryant as my main example because hes only 32 years old

Michael Jordan turned 30 in 1993!!!! 1993 do you believe that?!

3 of his championships came when he was over the age of 30, but it was different for MJ because he went to college instead of going straight to the pros like Kobe, and he skipped a couple years to play baseball

MJ was in far far far better shape than Kobe at 32 years of age, and its not cause Kobe doesnt work hard, no one would ever dare accuse him from that, its because Kobe's body had been through far much punishment by the time he was 32

MJ played just over 1000 games in his whole career, retiring at 40...
Kobe has played over 1300 games and hes only 32...


How this relates to Messi is that he is only 24 yes....but he already played over 300 games for Barca alone - so the assumption that "Just imagine what he's like when hes 27!" is a dangerous one to make...due to the very very high number of games Barca play yearly he is far more likely to peak earlier and start running into physical problems (like Kobe) associated with so many miles, rather than peak later like Jordan

This is a very interesting theory and it shouldn't be bashed just because you disagree with it, at least have some respect. Personally, Messi hasn't been as explosive last season, but he has still scored a vast amount of goals and is setting up team-mates on a plate. My main concern with Messi and Guardiola is that the former doesn't want to miss games, which means that the latter is reluctant to him, and hence he looks extremely unfit and uninterested, as well as fatigued, on the field at times. However, you have to bare in mind that the Barcelona team didn't have a brilliant pre-season, in terms of fitness, and Messi played a lot of games too, so you can't put the blame solely on this. The other reason is that he has missed Pedro and Villa: MVP hasn't functioned fully. Just take a look at the brilliant understanding they share for each other, second to none, and that's no exaggeration.

Peaking has so many meaning that i think only Cryuff would explain that correctly. peaking means you become good at everything? but its not possible,
at 20 - you are super great dribbler, good scorer, avarage passer, avarage vision, super hardworker
at 22 - you are super great dribbler, great scorer, good passer, good vision, great hardworker
at 24 - you are just great dribbler, great scorer, great passer, good vision, avarage hardworker
at 26 - you are only good dribbler, good scorer, greater passer, super vision, avarage hardworker

if you gain anything you loose something, this happens almost to all players so which is peak year?

Peaking means that you're at your highest level and that can be said about Messi right now, you don't expect him to maintain the same level for another few years. What's great about Messi is, even though he'll lose pace, he will become a great play maker, which has become more apparent over the last couple of seasons.

So which year is your highest level? how you define that

billionmillion wrote:So which year is your highest level? how you define that

Well, Messi's highest level, undoubtedly, was last season, but I would say he peaked in 07/08, just before Guardiola arrived, you could make a case that he peaked in 09/10. Peak may not be the right word, essentially.

thats what i'm saying

Glad we agree, initially, I admit I didn't read any of the previous posts, hehe.

Messi is an early bloomer. He peaked in 2008-2010/11. His stats are better because Barca since last year is about Messi. All players are playing for him. But practically he is worse. Both Ronaldo and Messi regressed considerably on technical level from last 1-2 seasons. They are not like Iniesta/Ozil/Xavi to grow with age.


OH GOD ! This shit Ronaldo-Messi era is going to end.

zece wrote:Messi is an early bloomer. He peaked in 2008-2010/11. His stats are better because Barca since last year is about Messi. All players are playing for him. But practically he is worse. Both Ronaldo and Messi regressed considerably on technical level from last 1-2 seasons. They are not like Iniesta/Ozil/Xavi to grow with age.


OH GOD ! This shit Ronaldo-Messi era is going to end.

there was only the messi era for me

Eh, he's just tired. Have faith in him and he'll repay you with more magic to come. Your key arguments seem to be "he doesn't chip, therefore he's becoming predictable" and "he's losing the ball more now when dribbling, even though he dribbles less". The first is a criticism that is understandable, but the later i find is only applicable to games in the immediate past. He needs a week of solid rest and we will see his best form again. He's human.

Anyways, I wouldn't mind him peaking so long as he plateaus for a few more years at a similar level