Yohan Modric wrote:How was it Coentrao's fault?

Zealous wrote:Part of me feels he'll actually hit his footballing prime once he's past his physical prime.

Red Alert wrote:How times have changed, eh.

There's not too many great CBs in the world right now, meaning Ramos / Pepe are automatically "one of the best CBs" respectively in the world in 2013.

Go back 10-15 years ago, and I doubt either of those 2 would play for a "top" club.

free_cat wrote:How is it that no one is saying the Galatasaray guy dived? Surely, if everyone didn't hate Ramos, everyone would be laughing at the Galatasary guy for diving...

That hipocrisy.

sportsczy wrote:Tackling technique has gone down the toilet mostly imo...  That's the biggest issue with Pepe and Ramos:  Neither is a good tackler.  That's why they would both fail miserably in the 80s at least.  You would never make it if you didn't have extremely good technique on your tackles.  It was a must in my day.

Also, tactical awareness was very important too.  

I completely disagree Z... they'd have even more trouble in the old days because they are so inept in terms of knowing defense.  They survive on athleticism.

sportsczy wrote:I played in that era and was a huge fan... you can disagree with me.  But i'm telling you:  Both Pepe and Ramos have very, very poor defensive technique and tactical awareness.  It's true that back then you could get away with more.  But all the systems were a 442 with overlapping fullbacks.  The defensive recovery usually consisted of the CBs and 2 midfielders.  One of the CBs was also a libero...

Also, the forwards could get away with a ton too.  For example, the German forwards liked to give you a quick jab in the balls before making their run (no joke).  Italians used to knee you right behind the knee cap and then go lol.

Your positioning and technique had to be so good because you had to defend yourself before the play and then you only had the libero to back you up if you failed.  You couldn't afford to start off in a bad position.

Ramos and Pepe would be in mid-table teams back in those days imo.  They are all about using their physical attributes mostly.  But then again, i think that they would have learned the fundamentals a lot more then too because it was required.

Both Pepe and Ramos get caught so often on the wrong side of their man that it's almost unbelievable.  Back in the 80s, if a forward got you on his wrong side, he'd grab you and pin you there... nowadays, they can't do that so you have a chance to recover.

I can go on and on.  That's why i admire players like Silva so much.  They're old school in how they defend.  They get you with their positioning and anticipation first...  they rarely ever get caught where they need to make last ditch efforts.  In fact, Silva rarely ever has to go to ground.  That's how it's supposed to get done.

The Franchise wrote:Ramos and Pepe would be gods in the 80's and 90's..what the actual fck.....

A foul is still a foul, now, the 90's or the 80's...the only difference is severity of punishment.

Plus forgetting that, Ramos is just plain garbage and seeing runs...and with all the real 9's that played back then, he would of been exposed even more by the increases quality from guys ranging from Shevchenko to Crespo and so many in between.

Plus, "gods" in the class compared to the likes Thuram, Nesta, Ayala, Desailly.......wat.

jibers wrote:

sportsczy wrote:I played in that era and was a huge fan... you can disagree with me.  But i'm telling you:  Both Pepe and Ramos have very, very poor defensive technique and tactical awareness.  It's true that back then you could get away with more.  But all the systems were a 442 with overlapping fullbacks.  The defensive recovery usually consisted of the CBs and 2 midfielders.  One of the CBs was also a libero...

Also, the forwards could get away with a ton too.  For example, the German forwards liked to give you a quick jab in the balls before making their run (no joke).  Italians used to knee you right behind the knee cap and then go lol.

Your positioning and technique had to be so good because you had to defend yourself before the play and then you only had the libero to back you up if you failed.  You couldn't afford to start off in a bad position.

Ramos and Pepe would be in mid-table teams back in those days imo.  They are all about using their physical attributes mostly.  But then again, i think that they would have learned the fundamentals a lot more then too because it was required.

Both Pepe and Ramos get caught so often on the wrong side of their man that it's almost unbelievable.  Back in the 80s, if a forward got you on his wrong side, he'd grab you and pin you there... nowadays, they can't do that so you have a chance to recover.

I can go on and on.  That's why i admire players like Silva so much.  They're old school in how they defend.  They get you with their positioning and anticipation first...  they rarely ever get caught where they need to make last ditch efforts.  In fact, Silva rarely ever has to go to ground.  That's how it's supposed to get done.

Best post I have seen in a while. Zealous you really are clueless lol.

sportsczy wrote:I agree that 95% of the time, any CB that plays for Madrid either goes retard or gets injured.

I mean Pepe was the best CB in Euro 2012 and look what he does for Madrid.  Ramos is actually very solid for Spain NT.

I don't know what happens... i started considering there's some sort of curse when Walter Samuel looked like a pub player for us and he's far from that lol.  Metzelder was always injured too and i thought he was great.  Etc.

free_cat wrote:How is it that no one is saying the Galatasaray guy dived? Surely, if everyone didn't hate Ramos, everyone would be laughing at the Galatasary guy for diving...

That hipocrisy.

Zealous wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Ramos and Pepe would be gods in the 80's and 90's..what the actual fck.....

A foul is still a foul, now, the 90's or the 80's...the only difference is severity of punishment.

Plus forgetting that, Ramos is just plain garbage and seeing runs...and with all the real 9's that played back then, he would of been exposed even more by the increases quality from guys ranging from Shevchenko to Crespo and so many in between.

Plus, "gods" in the class compared to the likes Thuram, Nesta, Ayala, Desailly.......wat.

haha obviously hyperbole on my part. My point is they would be considered better than they are nowadays. Ignore the gods part please I immediately concede I was going too far there

They play aggressive, so less severe punishments would be huge for them. A good player isn't as good when he's afraid he'll get hurt. I've seen Nesta commit soon horror tackles back in the day yet nowadays everyone thinks all his tackles were squeaky clean.

Don't forget playing for Madrid automatically makes Pepe and Ramos worse than they really are. They'd look much better on another team with someone else next to them covering for weaknesses.

Zealous wrote:

jibers wrote:

sportsczy wrote:I played in that era and was a huge fan... you can disagree with me.  But i'm telling you:  Both Pepe and Ramos have very, very poor defensive technique and tactical awareness.  It's true that back then you could get away with more.  But all the systems were a 442 with overlapping fullbacks.  The defensive recovery usually consisted of the CBs and 2 midfielders.  One of the CBs was also a libero...

Also, the forwards could get away with a ton too.  For example, the German forwards liked to give you a quick jab in the balls before making their run (no joke).  Italians used to knee you right behind the knee cap and then go lol.

Your positioning and technique had to be so good because you had to defend yourself before the play and then you only had the libero to back you up if you failed.  You couldn't afford to start off in a bad position.

Ramos and Pepe would be in mid-table teams back in those days imo.  They are all about using their physical attributes mostly.  But then again, i think that they would have learned the fundamentals a lot more then too because it was required.

Both Pepe and Ramos get caught so often on the wrong side of their man that it's almost unbelievable.  Back in the 80s, if a forward got you on his wrong side, he'd grab you and pin you there... nowadays, they can't do that so you have a chance to recover.

I can go on and on.  That's why i admire players like Silva so much.  They're old school in how they defend.  They get you with their positioning and anticipation first...  they rarely ever get caught where they need to make last ditch efforts.  In fact, Silva rarely ever has to go to ground.  That's how it's supposed to get done.

Best post I have seen in a while. Zealous you really are clueless lol.

We all have our Pippos. Sport is mine.

The Franchise wrote:

Zealous wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Ramos and Pepe would be gods in the 80's and 90's..what the actual fck.....

A foul is still a foul, now, the 90's or the 80's...the only difference is severity of punishment.

Plus forgetting that, Ramos is just plain garbage and seeing runs...and with all the real 9's that played back then, he would of been exposed even more by the increases quality from guys ranging from Shevchenko to Crespo and so many in between.

Plus, "gods" in the class compared to the likes Thuram, Nesta, Ayala, Desailly.......wat.

haha obviously hyperbole on my part. My point is they would be considered better than they are nowadays. Ignore the gods part please I immediately concede I was going too far there

They play aggressive, so less severe punishments would be huge for them. A good player isn't as good when he's afraid he'll get hurt. I've seen Nesta commit soon horror tackles back in the day yet nowadays everyone thinks all his tackles were squeaky clean.

Don't forget playing for Madrid automatically makes Pepe and Ramos worse than they really are. They'd look much better on another team with someone else next to them covering for weaknesses.

Ok but no, they would be worse, not better. They are fortunate now if anything that the is a dearth of 9's the quality that was around in the 90's and 80's.

Yes, less punishments would mean they play in more games, but I think people remember or think about the past era's differently than they actually were. I am the first to say now is too soft, but people speak as if 10-20 years ago (and older actually) a true foul wasnt a foul. The soft slight touches and clean slide tackles not allowed now for sure, but thats not what those two are doing. Pepe and Ramos are on some next stuff.

They would look better on another team? Maybe, debatable...but they wouldnt actually be better.