Do Madrid fans/players have a Barca superiority complex?

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Post by Interista809 Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:44 am

No, this is not a troll post. I know topics regarding Madrid and Barca are flammable around this parts but I urge fans of does two teams to take it easy. Nobody is saying anything bad about your team. If anybody is not interested in discussing this topic with respect for the other team then this thread is not for you.

In my immediate family there are a lot of Madridistas so I have to watch most of their matches and since Mou is there I kind of have a keen interest in them myself. In the Spanish speaking media of the U.S they mostly talk about Barca and Madrid followed by EPL then Serie A. Most of them hate Mou because he's going against the "history" of the club, they say that Madrid needs to play Barca "del tu a tu" which means that they have to play Barca like they would any other team or more accurate "offensive". Now with the latest reports in Spain it seems that the players feel that way too and some senior players had a bust up with Mou. Last night sections of the fan base was cheering Mou, the Ultras I think, but they were booed by a large part of the Bernabeu which signals that a large number of the fan base doesn't like how the team plays "different" against Barca.

Barcelona are in the greatest run in their history, they have the best player in his generation, have won everything and have a long running non-losing streak against Madrid at their place and Madrid has only beaten them once in something like 3-4 years. No one has beaten Barca playing them with offensive tactics, most teams that have had success against Barca either catch them on bad form/disinterested or park planes, buses or whatever got them to the stadium just behind their eleven man defense. Some teams do have made things difficult on Barca pressuring them up top but Barca usually finds their way.

In my opinion there is no team currently assembled that can take the ball away from Barca, yes on occasions some teams have been able to keep it close but when Barca are on their games there is no team that can take the ball away. You can put on the field all the offensive players you want but if you don't have the ball, which against Barca you never do, it makes no difference. Then you have offensive players trying to defend Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Sanchez, Fabregas or else leave defenders one on one with this guys which is not a good alternative. Another thing that Barca does great is win the ball back. As much as I hate Biscuits he is great at tackling, keeping possession, pressuring players to make bad desicion and diving(Not a bad thing depending from which side you look at it). When a team is lucky enough to get the ball back everybody and I mean everybody works to get the ball back. Its not only that they work, its the way they do, they corner players into a box where they can then apply pressure collectively to win the ball back. They also have a great defense, sometimes they do get lucky, but Pique, Puyol and Abidal are great at defending as last resort. Abidal looks like he has a magnet for the ball in his feet as a ball rarely goes through near him.

I think Madrid fans are a bit shocked that their great rival is THAT much better than their team(I mean when they play each other) and that Barca are having so much success while their team has been suffering in El Classico. I know Barca had this philosophical reborn a while back but usually in El Classico things were more even but now with this Barca dominance they have taken it to new heights.

Does Real Madrid stand a better chance of beating Barca if they played more attacking tactics?

Does Real Madrid really play different against Barca or does Barca make them look different?

Even if Madrid tries to play attacking tactics can they out-play Barca? could they make a notable difference?

My opinion is that: No, Madrid, even if they play offensive tactics, can't out-play Barca nor have a better chance against them. When Barca plays Real Madrid they take things to another level so catching them on an off game would be hard. As I said before there is no team constructed to take the ball away from Barca and for does attacking tactics to make a difference they'll need to have the ball. Maybe I'm wrong and they can take the ball away from Barca but I highly doubt it. That would be the only way to beat Barca while playing offensive tactics, in my opinion. I don't think Madrid plays different against Barca per say but the reason it may seem that they play different is because against other teams they can dominate possession which against Barca they can't. They have played the trivote against other teams but they still keep more possession of the ball, which is code name for offensive.

For does asking what does offensive tactics exactly mean? it means no trivote aka three defensive midfielders and taking the ball away from Barca or at least close to 50%.
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Post by Lord Hades Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:15 am

nice post but didnt understand your title..
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Post by Interista809 Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:19 am

Yeah I wanted to talk about something else then change it a bit because I didn't want to cause any trouble.
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Post by Lord Hades Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:28 am

well, i understand.. i think we have an inferiority complex rather, and tbf there is good reason for that.. thought it had gone after that copa win and impressive performances in the super cup..

lets hope that we play well at the camp nou and the players become more confident of besting barca because we ll need that in the more important competitions .
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Post by Interista809 Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:35 am

In the Super Copa Madrid played the best they have played against Barca but couldn't get over the hump. Thats also a good example of what I was talking prior to that game Madrid were in great form while Barca looked shaky but once the game started, though Madrid played much better, Barca still came out on top which frustrates a lot of fans. Madrid need a convincing performance against Barca to take "the monkey" off their back as they say here in the US.

By superiority I meant that fans can't understand why Madrid hasn't been able to get over the hump and may need to play out of their historical lens to pull off the victory, because they think their team is superior.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:40 am

Interista809 wrote:In the Super Copa Madrid played the best they have played against Barca but couldn't get over the hump. Thats also a good example of what I was talking prior to that game Madrid were in great form while Barca looked shaky but once the game started, though Madrid played much better, Barca still came out on top which frustrates a lot of fans. Madrid need a convincing performance against Barca to take "the monkey" off their back as they say here in the US.
Form means nothing when Messi has bellyful of burgers.
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Post by eltractor Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:06 am

i am a real/mourinho fan, and a real barca hater. it is really frustrating to see real get outplayed like this. i personally think you cant play offensive football against barca, cz you cant give them space to play their game. madrid should be stronger at the back, and maybe get some signings that can take the ball from them, and play quick passing to counter attack.
moreover, real fans are always afraid of barca, and all barca need is a goal to get the madrid players angry and untidy in their play, which will cause them to lose possession easily, and make some dangerous tackles.
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Post by Interista809 Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:18 am

eltractor wrote:i am a real/mourinho fan, and a real barca hater. it is really frustrating to see real get outplayed like this. i personally think you cant play offensive football against barca, cz you cant give them space to play their game. madrid should be stronger at the back, and maybe get some signings that can take the ball from them, and play quick passing to counter attack.
moreover, real fans are always afraid of barca, and all barca need is a goal to get the madrid players angry and untidy in their play, which will cause them to lose possession easily, and make some dangerous tackles.

I agree with you in all you said but it seems that people/fans/media are more concern with the "historical" image the club has had which means no counter attacking is allowed. I guess they want to continue this bad run of results they have against Barca.
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Post by eltractor Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:44 am

I agree with you in all you said but it seems that people/fans/media are more concern with the "historical" image the club has had which means no counter attacking is allowed. I guess they want to continue this bad run of results they have against Barca.[/quote]

even among my madrid fans, there were some that were criticising mourinho because he is defending, i told them to look at inter how they played with 10 players, and handled barca. i am very proud that inter were the only team to *bleep* barcelona in the last 3 years.
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Post by eltractor Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:46 am

look honestly i think mourinho has made the classico more like a challenge for him, rather than for the team. he is very nervous about it, and it is appearing in the character of the madrid players No
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Post by Onyx Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:54 pm

The thing is we never keep the ball for longer than 5 seconds vs Barca. We keep hoofing it as soon as they pressure.

I mean we're top 3 in Europe in terms of possession.

Also we have players capable of keeping the ball. Sahin, Granero, Alonso and Ozil.

However when we play Barca we change our style.

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Post by The Messiah Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:09 pm

This post is full of rep down. lulz.

Someone might as well rep me down for saying I agree with the poster, great post.

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Post by zizzle Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:30 pm

Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.
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Post by Zealous Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:30 pm

Great points OP. I think the general feeling in Spain is you should at least try.

For some (including me) winning is enough but others are more arrogant in their support.

Zidane made a great comment on this recently "sometimes the only beauty in football is victory". I agree with that. This Barca team is great and while I think we can beat them it won't be at their own game. I think Madrid needs to find a nice medium between going gung ho and sitting ultra deep.

A Madrid victory is due sooner or later I suspect when that finally happens the attitude will start to change.
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Post by zizzle Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:32 pm

eltractor wrote:look honestly i think mourinho has made the classico more like a challenge for him, rather than for the team. he is very nervous about it, and it is appearing in the character of the madrid players No

more like he's nervious coz these madrid fans dont really get it
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Post by Zealous Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:32 pm

zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.

I think Jose is doing a great job so far but you have to understand that Madrid are not short of resources and one look at how Bilbao completely changed their playing style so quickly explains why some purists are uncomfortable.
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Post by zizzle Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:36 pm

Zealous wrote:
zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.

I think Jose is doing a great job so far but you have to understand that Madrid are not short of resources and one look at how Bilbao completely changed their playing style so quickly explains why some purists are uncomfortable.

Madrid might have the resources but the market is lacking when it comes to WC players these days. There simply isnt another Messi or Xavi on the market right now so the gap in quality has to be bridged with tactics
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Post by Dutti Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:40 pm

I thought this was going to be really fun but then 90% of what you wrote is unrelated. *sigh* .... Just to answer the title-question... some (many) fans do!
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Post by Zealous Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:42 pm

zizzle wrote:
Zealous wrote:
zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.

I think Jose is doing a great job so far but you have to understand that Madrid are not short of resources and one look at how Bilbao completely changed their playing style so quickly explains why some purists are uncomfortable.

Madrid might have the resources but the market is lacking when it comes to WC players these days. There simply isnt another Messi or Xavi on the market right now so the gap in quality has to be bridged with tactics

True but Madrid have beaten teams with Messi and Xavi in them before. It's not impossible.
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Post by Onyx Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:05 pm

zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.
It didn't take Mourinho 15 years to change our style to parking the bus.

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Post by Onyx Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:07 pm

zizzle wrote:
Zealous wrote:
zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.

I think Jose is doing a great job so far but you have to understand that Madrid are not short of resources and one look at how Bilbao completely changed their playing style so quickly explains why some purists are uncomfortable.

Madrid might have the resources but the market is lacking when it comes to WC players these days. There simply isnt another Messi or Xavi on the market right now so the gap in quality has to be bridged with tactics
There's players similar to them. Aguero, Banega, Modric, Benzema etc.

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Post by Dutti Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:08 pm

Zealous wrote:
zizzle wrote:
Zealous wrote:
zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.

I think Jose is doing a great job so far but you have to understand that Madrid are not short of resources and one look at how Bilbao completely changed their playing style so quickly explains why some purists are uncomfortable.

Madrid might have the resources but the market is lacking when it comes to WC players these days. There simply isnt another Messi or Xavi on the market right now so the gap in quality has to be bridged with tactics

True but Madrid have beaten teams with Messi and Xavi in them before. It's not impossible.

Reading this, a question pops up in my mind. Do most fans enjoy watching individual performance more than the collective performance of a team?

I personally enjoy watching movements off the ball, timing of the run, utilization of free space, etc. Even a small team like Swansea could perform those well against Arsenal and that was beautiful football.

Of course, unusually good players like Messi is really pleasing to the eye but I prefer team football than individual show.


Last edited by Dutti on Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by zizzle Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:18 pm

mtfootball wrote:
zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.

It didn't take Mourinho 15 years to change our style to parking the bus.

which proves my point since you still lose eventhough you park the bus while other bus masters like Inter do not
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Post by Onyx Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:33 pm

zizzle wrote:
mtfootball wrote:
zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.

It didn't take Mourinho 15 years to change our style to parking the bus.

which proves my point since you still lose eventhough you park the bus while other bus masters like Inter do not
It just means we aren't suited to parking the bus. We have the 3rd highest average possession in Europe yet we drop our style and go and park the bus against Barca.

Yeh sure Barca are the best at possession, but it doesn't we can't attempt it.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:46 pm

zizzle wrote:Madrid fans are getting what they deserve. It's simply stupid to ask any coach to do in 2 years what Barca have been doing for the past 15 years. Barca's style of football isnt something that you can replicate at senior level and even if you do you just cant beat the masters at their own game.
I am not sure what you mean by these quotes, even in 50 years Mourinho wouldnt achieve what barca did.

Reality is that many of us knew it was not the best idea to sign him in the first place, and seeing how he is failing to do his park the bus tactic, it's not exactly shocking.

Madrid fans arent saying "LET"S PLAY LIKE BARCA", no, but they are saying stop putting Pepe-Lass-Alonso in the midfield. That was just retarded, and it made us look pathetic. If you say that he doesnt have the pieces to play like Inter, then why didnt he buy those pieces? he has been in charge of our transfers for 2 summers, and 2 winters now. If you say that we dont have quality midfielders to better, why isnt he signing them?

I am also not saying that we are entitled to beat them, because at the end of the day they are better than us, plainly. But it's the approach we go about losing that is upsetting.


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