Re: Yaya Toure best CM of PL this season?

by Le Samourai Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 3:10

People

Lex wrote:
Iceman wrote:You support a team in La Liga too?

I'm noticing a trend here...
According to la Liga lugs

Pepe Reina is the best keeper

Gerrard is the best midfielder

Van Persie is the best striker

Vidic is the best player in the league

I'm sure it's all a giant coincidence though and there's no bias involved whatsoever

by Iceman Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 3:20

bhends wrote:Comparing players is something that's impossible to do completely objectively unless you only loom at statistics (which everyone agrees don't paint the entire picture) for example, I will always prefer someone more tactically disciplined and cautious at cm rather than someone who makes driving runs forward, just based on my personal beliefs about what's best for the team...I realize there are some that feel precisely the opposite and prefer a cm that makes incisive runs rather than a more offensively cautious passer...to each his own there... and that's why these debates can only go so far when the players are of such a close level of skill and why no one is ever convinced in these debates...I've made all my points and arguments so I believe I'm done with this thread

I...am...speechless :bow:

Have you been watching that BBC series called "Sherlock" by any chance? haha.

by Swanhends Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 5:06

I don't think I even get BBC lol

by BarrileteCosmico Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 6:05

Bhends you talk about midfielder roles as if they are absolute when they completely depend on the role they play on the teams. There is no guideline for what every CM should do, but only what such a CM should do if he is surrounded by the players X, Y and Z and his manager tells him to play in style A. The roles completely change team by team.

by Swanhends Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 7:08

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Bhends you talk about midfielder roles as if they are absolute when they completely depend on the role they play on the teams. There is no guideline for what every CM should do, but only what such a CM should do if he is surrounded by the players X, Y and Z and his manager tells him to play in style A. The roles completely change team by team.

You've completely lost me...shouldn't that be obvious seeing as how yaya clearly plays a different role at city than he did at barca?

by Arquitecto Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 7:44

Is this a joke?

And why are people even taking Dnmac's weekly Toure sonnets seriously now? If you don't agree its obvious he will form another derogatory comment on your intelligence. I heard he turned a thread about Zionism and how its the Real enemy of Isreal, into a Yaya Toure comparison thread.

Fact is Arteta has been the best CM this year by a MILE.

Fady already owned whoever attempted to counter this point by stats.

But forget stats, its no coincidence Arsenal don't look anywhere near themselves when he isn't gracing the field or the fact that when he is on form within their game, (which is like...always) Arsenal ALWAYS dominate the field yet this fact is taken away from their poor finishing and somewhat reliance on RvP to slot in the goals. But the fact is, try to count how many times he actually misses a pass or makes a bad decision or isn't in the game and of course, how Arsenal look like without him.

This isn't a jibe on Arsenal, but praise on Arteta on how effective he is.

Yaya 10 times better? What a blooming joke.

I don't see how anyone can prove how he has NOT been the best CM this year.

I don't even have to mention the fact that Arteta is playing way deep out of position considering he is actually substantially better at an AM.

Hasn't anyone ever seen him for Everton? His close control? His final ball?

by Abramovich Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 14:18

Modric > Yaya/Arteta.

by Dnmac4 Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 17:35

Arquitecto wrote:Is this a joke?

And why are people even taking Dnmac's weekly Toure sonnets seriously now? If you don't agree its obvious he will form another derogatory comment on your intelligence. I heard he turned a thread about Zionism and how its the Real enemy of Isreal, into a Yaya Toure comparison thread.

Fact is Arteta has been the best CM this year by a MILE.

Fady already owned whoever attempted to counter this point by stats.

But forget stats, its no coincidence Arsenal don't look anywhere near themselves when he isn't gracing the field or the fact that when he is on form within their game, (which is like...always) Arsenal ALWAYS dominate the field yet this fact is taken away from their poor finishing and somewhat reliance on RvP to slot in the goals. But the fact is, try to count how many times he actually misses a pass or makes a bad decision or isn't in the game and of course, how Arsenal look like without him.

This isn't a jibe on Arsenal, but praise on Arteta on how effective he is.

Yaya 10 times better? What a blooming joke.

I don't see how anyone can prove how he has NOT been the best CM this year.

I don't even have to mention the fact that Arteta is playing way deep out of position considering he is actually substantially better at an AM.

Hasn't anyone ever seen him for Everton? His close control? His final ball?

Did you decide to wake up, get out of bed, get dressed and go full retard this morning?

I didn't make this thread smart guy. I simply said it was a thread to say how well Yaya is playing this year and he may be the best CM in the EPL and no one has anything positive to say about him.

The thread is now 5 pages long and there is still maybe 1 or 2 posts saying that Yaya is good. Don't you think that is a little strange how anytime anyone try's to give Yaya any sort of credit they either say he's not a DM or he doesn't play the same positions as so and so or a thread like this and Arteta and Ramires and Cabaye etc etc are better then him.

People on this board will not give him any credit for what ever reason, I don't know why as he is one of the most neutral players in the world.

Now if you think Arteta is better then Yaya then good for you, your wrong and anyone GM or personel person will tell you that and it's pretty much why Arsenal bought him on the cheap but your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to laugh at how wrong it is.

Also, Marceo is a lightning rod on this board about how good he is, yet when the Marcelo's is the best fullback threads get put up people disagree but do praise how far Marcelo has come or say he's great going forward but isn't good defensivly and other positive things even if they disagree with the premise. But Yaya, 5 pages and no positive words. IF you don't think thats strange then please continue to go full retard.

by paddy Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 17:41

Yaya has most certainly been #1 this season

by Dnmac4 Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 17:47

Lex wrote:
Iceman wrote:You support a team in La Liga too?

I'm noticing a trend here...
According to la Liga lugs

De Gea is the best keeper

Toure is the best midfielder

Aguero is the best striker

Silva is the best player in the league

I'm sure it's all a giant coincidence though and there's no bias involved whatsoever

According to Arsenal fans

Chesny- Best Keeper in the EPL

Cabaye- Best CM in the EPL

Song- Best DM in the EPL

Wilshire- Best young player in the EPL

Sanga- Best RB in the EPL

Vermaelen- Best CM in the EPL and best defender going forward in the world

RVP- Best Striker in the EPL and world

What have they won with this astonishing collection of world class talent and best players in there position in the EPL not a damn thing.

What does this awesome collection of talent do in big games against the likes of Birmingham City with a trophy on the line, shit the bed,

With 6 out of 11 players including the most important positions on the pitch being the best at there position in the EPL they must be in first place or at least challenging for the title, right? Nope fighting for a place in Europe and probably wont make it.

But yes Lex, you're right is us La Liga fans who are biased.

by Dnmac4 Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 17:59

Sorry, Arteta not Cabaye. LOL, I was watching him get carted off the field when I typed that.

by Abramovich Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 21:16

dnmac4 wrote:

According to Iceman

Chesny- Best Keeper in the EPL

Cabaye- Best CM in the EPL

Song- Best DM in the EPL

Wilshire- Best young player in the EPL (+fastest CM)

Sanga- Best RB in the EPL

Vermaelen- Best CM in the EPL and best defender going forward in the world

RVP- Best Striker in the EPL and world

What have they won with this astonishing collection of world class talent and best players in there position in the EPL not a damn thing.

Fixed for you

/Fuelforthefire

by chemicalboy99 Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 23:25

dnmac4 wrote:
Lex wrote:
Iceman wrote:You support a team in La Liga too?

I'm noticing a trend here...
According to la Liga lugs

De Gea is the best keeper

Toure is the best midfielder

Aguero is the best striker

Silva is the best player in the league

I'm sure it's all a giant coincidence though and there's no bias involved whatsoever

According to Arsenal fans

Chesny- Best Keeper in the EPL

Cabaye- Best CM in the EPL

Song- Best DM in the EPL

Wilshire- Best young player in the EPL

Sanga- Best RB in the EPL

Vermaelen- Best CM in the EPL and best defender going forward in the world

RVP- Best Striker in the EPL and world

What have they won with this astonishing collection of world class talent and best players in there position in the EPL not a damn thing.

What does this awesome collection of talent do in big games against the likes of Birmingham City with a trophy on the line, shit the bed,

With 6 out of 11 players including the most important positions on the pitch being the best at there position in the EPL they must be in first place or at least challenging for the title, right? Nope fighting for a place in Europe and probably wont make it.

But yes Lex, you're right is us La Liga fans who are biased.

Arf!!!!

Perhaps my favourite post on this board ever. banana

by RealGunner Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 0:10

dnmac4 wrote:

According to Arsenal fans

Chesny- Best Keeper in the EPL

No one has ever said that

Arteta - Best CM in the EPL

This is debatable

Song- Best DM in the EPL

Most consider Lucas as the best DM in the EPL

Wilshire- Best young player in the EPL

Name me a better youngster in the EPL than wilshere ?

Sanga- Best RB in the EPL

Name me a better RB ?

Vermaelen- Best CM in the EPL and best defender going forward in the world

Vermaelen CM ? Highly doubt anyone has ever said that considering he is a CD, but is there a better CB going forward than him ? Doubt it

RVP- Best Striker in the EPL and world

Name me a better Striker than him this season, And no one has never said he is the best in the world

by RealGunner Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 0:13

What have they won with this astonishing collection of world class talent and best players in there position in the EPL not a damn thing.

What does this awesome collection of talent do in big games against the likes of Birmingham City with a trophy on the line, shit the bed,

With 6 out of 11 players including the most important positions on the pitch being the best at there position in the EPL they must be in first place or at least challenging for the title, right? Nope fighting for a place in Europe and probably wont make it.

But yes Lex, you're right is us La Liga fans who are biased.

How many times have the team actually played together ? Fighting for the EL spot, Do you know we have 14 players out and still are in the top 6 ? Ofcoarse you won't comment on that as you dont know anything about the EPL unless it has to do with a la liga player or ex Barca.

If they play 80% of the time together AND THEN we still dont win a thing, you have the full right to bash them. Untill then, don't.

by Le Samourai Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 0:53

TBF Balotelli is at least as good a talent as Wilshire Razz

by RealGunner Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 1:05

hmm didn't consider balotelli as a youngster actually lol.

by Dnmac4 Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 4:23

RealGunner wrote:
dnmac4 wrote:

According to Arsenal fans

Chesny- Best Keeper in the EPL

No one has ever said that

Arteta - Best CM in the EPL

This is debatable

Song- Best DM in the EPL

Most consider Lucas as the best DM in the EPL

Wilshire- Best young player in the EPL

Name me a better youngster in the EPL than wilshere ?

Sanga- Best RB in the EPL

Name me a better RB ?

Vermaelen- Best CM in the EPL and best defender going forward in the world

Vermaelen CM ? Highly doubt anyone has ever said that considering he is a CD, but is there a better CB going forward than him ? Doubt it

RVP- Best Striker in the EPL and world

Name me a better Striker than him this season, And no one has never said he is the best in the world

This took me like 10 minutes so you can go through the millions of threads and find more if you'd like.

As for no one ever saying RVP is the best striker in the world according to you of course. (I'm only using Arsenal fans)

RVP = currently the Best player in planet ..like a boss ...Lucky ARSENAL.. A True Legend - Boss

I agree Gomez should be mentioned, but if you compare the team Gomez is surrounded by and Arsenal, RVP is just unrealistic.- Raptorgunner on who's the best striker in the world

Van Persie is definitely #1 right now, no question.

Most complete striker, definitely.- Sushimaster

ROBIN VAN GOD!!!!

If he isnt the best striker in the world right now then i dont who is.

Godmez has nothing on rvp - michael1

AS FOR SONG. I constantly hear that Song is the best DM in the EPL and it drives me crazy. Here are some examples in various threads on who is the best DM in the world not just the EPL.

what about Alex song?- Aleumdance

Where is Song ???- Highburied

I haven't heard A. Song today - Be/VceCALI

ARTETA IS NOT DEBATABLE. He has been in the EPL for years and now suddenly because Everton sell him for peanuts to Arsenal he's the best CM in the EPL. Just because you have a decent half season for a team doesn't mean your the best at that position in "the most competitive league in the world".

FFS, he's doesn't even play for his national team so that says a lot about the EPL.

I mean Modric, Yaya, Lampard, Gerrard if you want to play him there are all comfortably better then Arteta off the top of my head.

Answer me this did you ever in your life say that Arteta was the best CM in the EPL before he got to Arsenal????? And now he is after a half of a season.

As for Wilshire being the best young player in the EPL, no freaking way.

Balotelli
Sturridge
Bale

I'll even go on your own team and say Ox-Chamberlain will be better then Wilshire when it's all said and done.

To name you a better RB, sure no problem.

Glen Johnson
Micah Richards

This is debatable and can understand if people like Sagna here as it's really just splitting hairs.

And yes there are better CB going forward then Verm. Take into consideration he's hurt all the time but IMO Terry is head and shoulders above him and has actually, you know won things.

Terry has been the gold standard in the EPL for years and Verm just isn't as good it's pretty simple.

As for Chesny I don't feel like finding the threads but they are on here, trust me I've had the debates. Again he is wildly overrated by Arsenal fans and IMO Friedel, Cech, De Gea, Reina, Hart, are all better and have actual history overtime to prove it.

by Lex Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 4:40

Balotelli better youth than Wilshere :facepalm:

In a bake off or who can amass the most parking tickets in a day, maybe. On The pitch? No chance.

Micah Richards better rb than Sagna :facepalm:

No need to even say any more on this, your hatred of Arsenal is clear here when you think Richards is a better rb than Sagna. Next, you're going to tell me Anderson is a better midfielder than Wilshere

And to think rundmc had the nerve to accuse Arq of going "full retard" Mate, you make it your lifestyle.

by Lex Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 4:43

Also, you love using past accomplishments as a barometer of how good a player is (mostly when it suits you, when others use the same logic, it doesn't count) what have Friedel, Hart and De Gea won to make them better than Szczesny?

by Le Samourai Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 4:55

1.Wilshire is the biggest talent in the EPL......Sturridge isn't anywhere near his level.Bale and Balotelli are both established players....you might as well throw Aguero in there if you're going to include them.Don't see what's your beef with him......he's an amazing talent......

2.Those Song quotes are laughable

3.If you're implying that there's been a better striker than RVP this season.....you're wrong.Excluding Messi of course.That's from the biggest Benzema fan to ever grace this forum.Although I have to disagree with the most complete comment from Sushi Very Happy

4.Arteta being the best CM in the EPL this year is debatable.He was a beast at Everton for years.....rated among the top of the crop.....but was troubled by injuries.Quality wise he most certainly isn't the best.....but neither is Toure , if you read the thread title.....you'll understand why people are ignoring that.

5.Michah Richards has been a beast so far......Glen has been very good.But your argument clashes with your previous rationalizations for Arteta.

6.Chesney-once again your argument clashes with the Toure best CM in England argument....but you said nothing wrong.

7.Vermalelen...? No comment.I honestly don't know.

by Le Samourai Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 4:55

Stop trolling Godotelli Lex Razz

by Arquitecto Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 9:46

dnmac4 wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:Is this a joke?

And why are people even taking Dnmac's weekly Toure sonnets seriously now? If you don't agree its obvious he will form another derogatory comment on your intelligence. I heard he turned a thread about Zionism and how its the Real enemy of Isreal, into a Yaya Toure comparison thread.

Fact is Arteta has been the best CM this year by a MILE.

Fady already owned whoever attempted to counter this point by stats.

But forget stats, its no coincidence Arsenal don't look anywhere near themselves when he isn't gracing the field or the fact that when he is on form within their game, (which is like...always) Arsenal ALWAYS dominate the field yet this fact is taken away from their poor finishing and somewhat reliance on RvP to slot in the goals. But the fact is, try to count how many times he actually misses a pass or makes a bad decision or isn't in the game and of course, how Arsenal look like without him.

This isn't a jibe on Arsenal, but praise on Arteta on how effective he is.

Yaya 10 times better? What a blooming joke.

I don't see how anyone can prove how he has NOT been the best CM this year.

I don't even have to mention the fact that Arteta is playing way deep out of position considering he is actually substantially better at an AM.

Hasn't anyone ever seen him for Everton? His close control? His final ball?

Did you decide to wake up, get out of bed, get dressed and go full retard this morning?

I didn't make this thread smart guy. I simply said it was a thread to say how well Yaya is playing this year and he may be the best CM in the EPL and no one has anything positive to say about him.

The thread is now 5 pages long and there is still maybe 1 or 2 posts saying that Yaya is good. Don't you think that is a little strange how anytime anyone try's to give Yaya any sort of credit they either say he's not a DM or he doesn't play the same positions as so and so or a thread like this and Arteta and Ramires and Cabaye etc etc are better then him.

People on this board will not give him any credit for what ever reason, I don't know why as he is one of the most neutral players in the world.

Now if you think Arteta is better then Yaya then good for you, your wrong and anyone GM or personel person will tell you that and it's pretty much why Arsenal bought him on the cheap but your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to laugh at how wrong it is.

Also, Marceo is a lightning rod on this board about how good he is, yet when the Marcelo's is the best fullback threads get put up people disagree but do praise how far Marcelo has come or say he's great going forward but isn't good defensivly and other positive things even if they disagree with the premise. But Yaya, 5 pages and no positive words. IF you don't think thats strange then please continue to go full retard.

This is funny. I mean the irony that surrounds your not so well though up post is frankly, GOLDEN.

Let me start off, what part of my previous post did you not understand that I said Arteta has been better THIS YEAR.

Highlighted that so your cones can process it better.

Frankly, you haven't provided anything to convince any one really considering how adamant you are on proving your point.

I don't think you actually took time to differentiate the difference between Arteta and Toure.

Toure frankly, has come to be very predictable as evidenced against many teams who are more tactically astute and full of quality players unlike the lower fodder he demolishes.

Its funny how Toure considers himself a playmaker considering most of his distribution passes in terms of decision within City, break all the roles of common CM playmaking. Its funny how he burst down the flank only to compromise his own teamates positioning with his poor decision making and and passes that resemble someone with a understanding of a youth player. I lost count on how many times he COMPLETELY breaks up his an impending play by a pass that almost seems like its meant to break up a build up of play. In laymans terms for you.... it means he is just a DM who thinks he is a CM similar to how Song feels he is a playmaker. Truth is, both of them can't do that.

Arteta on the other hand, has almost galvanized Arsenal with his presence. Did you see them against Swansea today? Did you see how much they missed him?

Ask any Arsenal fan or any football fan who watches them. Arteta makes the correct decision ALL THE TIME. Once he gets into the game, he completely dominates the field. Sitting deep he doesn't make useless wayward passes like Yaya, but makes intelligent passes that are only the inception to building a far bigger play. Unlike Yaya, he can spread apart the midfield like butter, make long passes which are accurate as a laser unlike Yaya whose passing technique is average. His crossing is far better. No competition. He has far more close control and a better final ball. All in all his control of the game and playmaking is superior.

Do I have to mention Arteta is pretty much to sole defensive outlet of the midfield as well? Why? because Song is to busy out of positioning doing his own imitation of playmaking. Ramsey who has been inconsistent repeatedly compramises Arteta's plays. While RvP is the only one who can convert most of the midfield plays catalyzed by Arteta.

Meanwhile, Yaya has a far better backline to cover him, De Jong and Barry to cover his gaps (or without De Jong, Milner who is PROVEN to have to cover the yardage Yaya leaves).

Why is he a starter? Simply because he is the jack of all trades, solid but unspectacular in many areas as Mancini's silk and steel system is built around him for a free role so he can perform his exuberance in his variety. Countless experts and pundits have already noted this point.

Why do I like Arteta better? Simply because he isn't a player who relies on his physical sense to get the job done unlike Yaya whose common option is too use his massive physique when the going gets tough. He tried to do this against Liverpool in the 1st leg BPL match, against Napoli twice, against Chelsea, and tried it against Sunderland (where he was made fine runs but shit end product).

I like Arteta better because he uses his brain instead, uses his brain when the going gets tough. He has guile and can dictate the field better along that from a technical standpoint he is FAR better than Toure.

Yaya is commended more simply because he is more effective at times in a league where physicality is one of your greatest strengths.

Bought him on the cheap? 10 million for a injury prone 29 year from a lower mid-table club isn't exactly cheap. It just means Dick long is a fabulous negotiator.

But you know what, I don't know why I wasted my time writing this because I know you barely watch Yaya Toure in City and only remember his Barca days, and I know CLEARLY that you do not watch Arsenal and Arteta. Nor have you watched him as an AM in Everton or how Everton is one of the worst teams in the EPL now, coincidentally when he left.

And unsurprisingly, you forgot to mention how both of them are quite different types of players.

I know for a fact that you will produce yet another Tourettes rant which includes another ode to Toure, laced with childish personal insults and teenage angst in why NO ONE EVER SEEMS TO AGREE WITH YOU.

Plus if you didn't have such a thick head you would have noted that this posts in this thread were actually made to troll you and make you the butt of all jokes here in which you obviously have slotted in very well.

And as for your imitation of Arsenal fans, its quite frankly pathetic and adds even more to your irony. I don't even have to mention the posts you added in page 6 :facepalm:

Therefore I will call you Mr. Tourettes. Get it? Mr. TOUREttes?

by halamadrid2 Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 12:51

Lex wrote:Also, you love using past accomplishments as a barometer of how good a player is (mostly when it suits you, when others use the same logic, it doesn't count) what have Friedel, Hart and De Gea won to make them better than Szczesny?

Friedel... won Carling Cup with Blackburn and runners up with Villa

Hart....Fa Cup

De Gea... Europa League + Uefa Super Cup and Community shield

Shezney runners up last year in Carling Cup

// :coffee:

by Dnmac4 Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 16:47

halamadrid2 wrote:
Lex wrote:Also, you love using past accomplishments as a barometer of how good a player is (mostly when it suits you, when others use the same logic, it doesn't count) what have Friedel, Hart and De Gea won to make them better than Szczesny?

Friedel... won Carling Cup with Blackburn and runners up with Villa

Hart....Fa Cup

De Gea... Europa League + Uefa Super Cup and Community shield

Shezney runners up last year in Carling Cup

//

I know, right? Jesus why don't you think before you type for like 2 seconds.

Also, I will say this right now and continue to kill you people on here for YEARS TO COME. If you think Jack Wilshire is better then Balotelli or Bale then you are totally out of your mind.

Please disagree with me here so I can save this thread and pull it up every time you think your being slick.

Again, Arteta can't even make his national team. Give me a freaking break. The people I named have been better then him for ever and are still better then him and will continue to be better then him.

AS for Rag what ever his name is. I'm not going to spend more then the ten minutes it took to prove RG wrong in what he said. If you would like to find better quotes then go ahead but quite frankly I don't have the time to. If I can pull up 3 posts from Arsenal fans pumping Song for best DM in the world and that doesn't prove they think he's the best in the EPL then jesus man use some deductive logic.

HE also said no one claimed RVP was the best striker in the world, again it took me 10 minutes to find multiple quotes of Arsenal fans saying exactly that.

Also for Rag what ever your name is, how does my Yaya argument clash with my Chesny argument? Please describe this instead of just saying it. HE single handedly pulled City to the FA Cup title last year, he was good enough to start in what many consider to be the best club team ever and won a CL and moved to the EPL and has been dominant from day one. What similarities in the world are there for Yaya and Chesny?

by Dnmac4 Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 16:50

Also, please give me the argument that Wilshire is a better talent then Sturridge?

I really want to hear this. ???Have you people seen him play last year and this year? Look at Bolton with out him, he dragged them to stay up last year and so far is keeping Chelsea in the top 4.

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