There are indeed, many threads, but i have a question for you madrid fans...

What do you think real madrid can do tactically to beat barcelona?

As a journalist said a week ago, real madrid went out to press, while barcelona went out to play, now of course thats a bit too harsh if taken from a 1 dimensional perspective, but in reality, the reality in it self is that, madrid doesnt seem to have any tools in their disposal other than to counter attack, and press.

That seems a bit too volatile to me, now of course you did generate chances from which you could have scored and won, but real madrid has to have a bit more control over their play.

In many ways, barcelona were more dominant than some may think, although it may be true that real madrid could have won if not for a series of factors, you cant let those factors influence the match, if youre a good team then never will a twist of bad luck hurt you because you would still have the game in control, but this wasnt the case here..

Never imo have real madrid been able to really make their players shine, and thats because they play like scavengers instead of hunters...

do you think that can change? because if you look at what guardiola did, he made players like ozil tactically useless, he shut you down...

time for madrid to find something more...

I personally think experience would do you guys well.

if you reach ur ideal potential, i see you as a team that keeps things simple and just gets the results against barca, by scoring all the clorious opportunities they get.. i have only seen glimpses of that possibility though.

Barcelona has a series of players that have done what they do best, together for years now, not only does that bring quality, but it brings experience, and the whole team as a unit works so well together, that the chances of individual failures go down, and so do chances for team success go up.

Mourinho's madrid has been intact for a year and a half, and yes it has enough quality to take it to barca and win.

But if i can use a phrase to describe your situation it would be "Querer no es Poder" or wanting is not doing... Real madrid dont lack drive, they do lack tactical brilliance imo at times, and experience.

I think that mourinho's team will take more control in the matches as time goes by, and as shown in the super cup, they have been able to be more "par on par" with barcelona. But what i have also seen is lots of missed chances...Madrid does fight back, but if it doesnt make the goals when in advantage or disadvantage then it wont win...

So neither tactically nor mentally (experience) are you better than them....
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If i could field a team it would probably be...

Casillas
Arbeloa-Ramos-Pepe-Marcelo
Lass---Sahin---Alonso---
Di Maria---Benzema---Ronaldo

the whole team would have to be in great shape, and i have yet to see a match where madrid, ACTUALLY impress(beause of their severe incompetence), its either ozil or ronaldo, thats dead the most, but with sahin in there, you could get more security in midfield, and also great attacking presence...

Mentality is key though..if guys like ronaldo and ozil keep having anonymous matches, their team mates wont do any better.

Not as bad as some may think though, in super cup you could have been 2-0 up in first half, and can only get better as time goes by.

You dont press them. This is a wrong and not effective.
I have spent the last 6 or 8 months on this forum explaining that you do not go the lion's lair, but invite him to your home. That's number 1.

Number 2, you dont play counters against a team like barca. They love being countered. They adore running and beg for it. You dont play on their strengths, you play on their weaknesses.

Number 3, well what the hell, go read my 4 - 4 - 2 formation analysis its in the post classico analysis thread somewhere on the front page.


That's the only answer for now. Everything els failed. It wouldnt be a surprise if this also fails but its worth a try.

___________Casillas

Arbeloa___Pepe___Chillini___Contrao

________Ramos___Bastian

Marcelo_______Ozil________Neymer

____________Benzema

Defence:
- They all pressurise like hell.
- Mark their players tight.
- Be Aggresive and track all the runs.
- The wingers must mark the full backs.

Attack:
- Do not panic by barca pressure game, pass confuertibaly.
- Play like a team, do teamwork passes, 1 touch passes.
- Run into space, Run as fast as they can on counters.
- Player counters attacks, concentrate on exposing space and in more central area.

NO tactics ffs

its efficiency thats killing us... jeeez

our tactics werent wrong

valencia play the same way (high pressure) and win them

its efficiency and mentality

No its not efficiency that's killing us.

We re not as good as they are. they are technically more gifted and they play better as a team.

Hell, if Barca B played us i dont think we ll notice any difference between both Barca teams, and they ll end up beating us or drawing us.

Not hoof the ball away when they pressure, which is what we did, especially Pepe. Just keep the damn ball and string passes together.

Also we need to press tactically and as a team. Our pressing involved us full out aggresively pressing them. Whereas when Barca press they do it tactically and trap the person with the ball.

We need to stop being so one dimensional too. Our attacking is too one dimensional and direct. For example our attackers could swap positions more.

mtfootball wrote:Not hoof the ball away when they pressure, which is what we did, especially Pepe. Just keep the damn ball and string passes together.

Also we need to press tactically and as a team. Our pressing involved us full out aggresively pressing them. Whereas when Barca press they do it tactically and trap the person with the ball.

We need to stop being so one dimensional too. Our attacking is too one dimensional and direct. For example our attackers could swap positions more.

Very good points made here.

What's troublesome is we can not master all this in one season. We have to resort to other tactics that help us break their dominance.

Normally when a team cant beat another with team work, they resort to individual talents. This is why Ronaldo and Kaka are our only hope for now. Ronaldo has problems, he's not fit enough to face barcelona's system besides when he's hovering upfront next to their elite defenders it is diffiicult for him to create something.

We need to drop one of our talented players to the CM, hence the Kaka theory. The only two creative players in Madrid are Kaka and Ronaldo. When Ronaldo fails, Kaka shines and vice versa. This is why when we start with both players we never lose a single game.

I think it's more about our mentality rather than efficiency. we score goals with few chances against any opponents. the reason we aren't the same against Barcelona ? well that's because they have mental edge over us and that comes with experience.

They have defeated us so many times in the recent years that they actually believe RM is not a big problem for them. on the other side our players focus too much on El Clasico and Mou's tactics before the game that it turns into pressure for them. the fear of potential fail gets to them and that's what stop them from performing their best. when Clasico arrives our players simply forget how to play their own game.

Our problem against Barcelona is more deeper than people think.

It's not just mentally. Barca are better than us overall. Their style, pressing, possession, chemistry etc are superior to that of ours currently.

Their defense, midfield and attack is slightly better than ours.

However we have to work with the players we have. As I said above, we need to keep the ball instead of hoofing it away, we need to press more tactically, be unpredictable etc etc.

If that doesn't work then I guess we'll have to park the bus.

------------------------------------------Casillas-------------------------------------

Arbeloa-------------------Pepe---------------------Sergio-------------------Coentrao

------------------------------------------Xabi---------------------------------------

--------------------Di Maria----------------------------------Marcelo----------------


Kaka-----------------------------------------------------------------------Benzema

------------------------------------------Ronaldo

-------------------------Iker-----------------------
------------Pepe------Ramos-----Varane
Lass---------------------------------------Marcelo
----------------Khedira-------Alonso------------
----------------------Ozil------------------------------
--------------Ronaldo-----------Benz

:dance:

Casillas
Arbeloa Varane Ramos Coentrao
Khedira Pepe Xabi
Ronaldo Higuain Di Maria

Game over

I see nothing wrong with us tactically. We just need to gain that killer instinct to finish games off in high pressure situations.

We go 2-0 up against Barca then it turns into a different game.

One day we'll get it right. Hopefully it's sooner rather than later.

Casillas

Arbeloa--Ramos--Coentrao

Lass--Sahin--Alonso--Marcelo

Ozil--Higuain--Benzema

StrugaRock wrote:-------------------------Iker-----------------------
------------Pepe------Ramos-----Varane
Lass---------------------------------------Marcelo
----------------Khedira-------Alonso------------
----------------------Ozil------------------------------
--------------Ronaldo-----------Benz

:dance:

i agree. i have also thought about putting 3 central defenders because most of their goals against us are their forwards overpowering our center backs. but maybe switch lass with khedira then khedira with arbeloa. and ronaldo for higuain. we can still press with this formation, but when they do get close, and knowing how clinical they are, we can finally shut them down.

we would be crushed with that tactic. trust me, i wouldnt explain.

4-2-3-1 / 4-5-1 is the best way to beat them.

I do agree that Kaka should start

I've noticed that Real's passing against Barca is disjointed and it has little to do with what Braca do, but with whom they are. real has topossess the ball 45% of the time. That, in itself, would neutralize, in part, Barca's offense.

The most important part is, in my opinion, the mental part. Real have toplay like favorites and impose their high amount of scoring chances game on Barca, and convert a fair share.

It's "zero sum". Whne you rattle Barca, THEIR confidence wil be impacted and, consequently, impair their patented game.

Had Ronald converterted,fro the second goal, it would have rattled Barca, in my opinion.

Ronaldo gets nervous because he wants to prove a point. Whne/if he succceds ( by scoring early, for example ), he will revert to being one of the greatest ever.

My thoughts, anyhow!

pay referees more than they do :lol!:

Simple, don't play Di Maria or Ronaldo, and have Ozil and Kaka both start.

Play him at CM in a 4 - 4 - 2.
When your team sucks at team work, you rely on your most gifted player; the team work has to pass through one maetrso because too many cooks spoil the food.

Everything has been tried, and has failed due to logical reasons ofcourse; give this a try and you'll never be disappointed.

Calebvision wrote:I do agree that Kaka should start

I've noticed that Real's passing against Barca is disjointed and it has little to do with what Braca do, but with whom they are. real has topossess the ball 45% of the time. That, in itself, would neutralize, in part, Barca's offense.

The most important part is, in my opinion, the mental part. Real have toplay like favorites and impose their high amount of scoring chances game on Barca, and convert a fair share.

It's "zero sum". Whne you rattle Barca, THEIR confidence wil be impacted and, consequently, impair their patented game.

Had Ronald converterted,fro the second goal, it would have rattled Barca, in my opinion.

Ronaldo gets nervous because he wants to prove a point. Whne/if he succceds ( by scoring early, for example ), he will revert to being one of the greatest ever.

My thoughts, anyhow!

Your thoughts mirror the truth.

Potential wrote:Simple, don't play Di Maria or Ronaldo, and have Ozil and Kaka both start.

Di Maria is fine when he's banished to the left. First it's his natural position. Second he cant do as much on the left as he can do on the right individually hence we restrict his services to dribbling, passing and crossing and reduce his shot takes. Di Maria is like the salt in your food. Your food would taste better with salt but too much of salt spoils it for you.