Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

when a striker starts talking about "its not my job to score" or "i do other things" that's never a good sign. i heard henry say that before, heard torres say that, heard raul say that. they never said that when they were at the peak of their powers, henry started talking like that at barcelona, torres, when david villa was carrying spain, and raul when he was washed up.

i get benzema's defending himself and all, but this neo-striker who should now be assisting is strange to me......its not like he even has the most assists even. he didn't need a press conference, shut your critics up on the pitch. we don't need yet another definition for a neo-footballer- we already have neogoalies who play with their feet, neowingbacks who cut in, false 9's. i think we've had enough, everyone shud just do their jobs

villa also started talking like that when he went to barcelona....even though messi was still their assist leader and scoring the bulk of their goals

No he didn't. Morata was HORRIBLE other than 2-3 games in CL in his entire tenure at Juve. Go ask the Juve fans here if you don't believe me. They've said it several times. His stats were awful in his 2 years there. Hell, even Mandzukic benched him.

sportsczy wrote:No he didn't.  Morata was HORRIBLE other than 2-3 games in CL in his entire tenure at Juve.  Go ask the Juve fans here if you don't believe me.  They've said it several times.  His stats were awful in his 2 years there.  Hell, even Mandzukic benched him.

He wasn't horrible but he wasn't great enough to hold down that position. His best moments (apart from those 2-3 CL moments), were actually basically as a left winger used as a super sub. He was purely a utility player that was well utilized by Allegri. He'll always be remembered fondly for the moments in which he did demonstrate his ability- against Real Madrid in the CL, against Milan in the Coppa Italia final.

I think Real buying him back was definitely the right decision, turning around and selling him for 75M was also, definitely the correct decision. The only, seemingly bizarre, decision was not to sign a new backup striker and rely on an aging Ronaldo, lackluster Benzema and a glass Bale for 4 competitions this season. Its a move you would not expect from a club like Real Madrid but I guess when you're stuck with either severely overpaying in a broken market or moving forward as it is, then this is the result.

Plus, I think Morata said in a recent interview that Zidane wanted to keep him but he made the move to challenge himself and to start. He knew he wasn't going to bench Benzema, even with injuries and a good run of form, Benzema would still probably see the greater share of matches as he did last season. Morata is a very good player, he probably has more technique than his potential will ever allow him to reach- which is more of a gut feeling having really watched him play for Juve.

He says that Morata was a glorified bench player that couldn't hack it as a starter at Juve and you take that as a victory of some sorts???  lol,  Your premise was that he was a successful second striker next to Tevez remember... and he never was.  That's what I was refuting.  But keep moving the goalposts to whatever it is you moved them to since I don't think you specified.

Bill, do not defend that idiot De Gea.

Agents ultimately follow the will of the player, that's their job. In donnarumma's case, Raiola was trying his best but failed to turn his client' head in our direction. Raiola would have much more money doing business with us than Milan. But Donnarumma's will prevailed.

In De Gea's case he was a fool to take heed of Mendes advice. That and he was worried of his place in manutd should a move not materialize. In truth I am grateful he's an idiot. Didn't like him anyways.

You say madrid is willing to pay for de Gea but the facts dismiss this. Don't forget we declined to sign de Gea ourselves this summer. And for good reason, no one pays much money for a gk. Even if he is rated world class.

The transfer market prices has inflated but only with regard to outfield players. GK remains somewhat very low end of the transfer prices compared to today's inflation.

Valkyrja wrote:Benzema's press conference was a disgrace

Context matters. You disagree only because of

1. You don't know any better
2. It's Benz who saying this.

Considering it's Benz who accurately describes the position of a modern CF, perhaps he is the wrong person to say such considering his awful form. Having said that, his form however doesn't make what he said wrong. And considering he himself is an established modern CF, Benz has authority to say such

Old school cfs have no place in modern football. Or at the very least not in the big time. Lewandowski? Modern. Suarez? Modern. Morata? Modern. None of these 3 are your typical old school cfs. All three are capable to not be dead weight when not scoring. And in today's game you need every advantage you can get.

Having said that, perhaps Benz should return to form before speaking such. He is no position to talk semantics of a CF. Because cfs are supposed to bring results and he hasn't done that consistently enough so far into this campaign.

Turok_TTZ wrote:
Old school cfs have no place in modern football. Or at the very least not in the big time. Lewandowski? Modern. Suarez? Modern. Morata? Modern.

i disagree with this on so many levels. one i'm not sure what time fram you're categorizing as old school. i'd take ruud at united over almost any cf out there today, probably except suarez (Probably). a strikers job is score- strikers who talk about "assists", tells me they're getting washed up. and if u're putting morata as a some special modern forward then old school CFs definitely have a place. michael owen was far better than morata

titosantill wrote:

Turok_TTZ wrote:
Old school cfs have no place in modern football. Or at the very least not in the big time. Lewandowski? Modern. Suarez? Modern. Morata? Modern.

i disagree with this on so many levels. one i'm not sure what time fram you're categorizing as old school. i'd take ruud at united over almost any cf out there today, probably except suarez (Probably).  a strikers job is score- strikers who talk about "assists", tells me they're getting washed up. and if u're putting morata as a some special modern forward then old school CFs definitely have a place. michael owen was far better than morata

The Classic 9 is dead tito. Whether you disagree is based on feelings or opinion is of no consequence. Why don't you try looking at who won the CL in the last 5 years. How many of those CL winning teams will you find a classic 9 CF in the starting lineup? Zero.

Benzema, Suarez are the definition of Modern CFs. CFs who can not only score but assist in chance creation and buildup play. create space for others rolling in and hold up when needed.
Mandzukic while not as prolific or as good as the two mentioned is also of this mould. I respect his hustle greatly. And Mandzukic btw benched a classic 9 in Mario Gomez.

Ruud Van Nistelrooy is a classic 9 but even he had good link up play though he focused more on getting on the finishing play. But his time has long come and gone. he is not a good example. you mention specifically Ruud of Manchester United... tell me, is the football from back then the same as it is now or has it evolved since those days? I believe the game changed significantly since then. for better or worse football has changed.

Name the top 5 CFs in the world in your opinion. lets find out if there's a classic 9 in that top 5. because as far as I'm aware, there are no classic 9s in the top 5 in the world. everyone who is at the top 5 are modern cfs.

Just to help you out: Benzema, Lewandowski, Aubameyang, Ibrahimovic, Higuain, Suarez, Morata are not classic 9s. they're all Modern or at the very minimum have the skillset and playstyle that do not fit the classic 9 profile. Yes Higuain has evolved. he is not the same player he was when he was with us. Higuain is a far better player now than before. if it weren't for his shit mentality and legendary choker status, I'd actually welcome higuain back right now.

so you are basing your theory on who won the last 5 ucls? there are more teams in football than the teams that won the ucl. and beisdes, which teams won the last 5 ucls? u make it sound like their have been 5 different winners. madrid, barcelona and bayern? so if a player can't get into these three teams (which i highly disagree with) it means they can't fit in the modern era? the era isn't limited to three teams

two out of those teams that won the last 5 ucl that u mention. two of those three teams (its not like 5 different teams have won it, which limits your case), two have the BEST players of the present era. so its not like "modern" striker alone got them going, no. one team had cristiano- who has beasted in the knockout round, the other messi

best players can play in any set up. ruud was giving out 20 plus goals for fun at utd. the set up at madrid where capello didn't know how to use becks, and where the formation always changed was totally different from the organized structure at utd with giggs becks scholsey and keane. yet ruud beasted at madrid till injury

you can't use mario gomez as a standard of measurement that cos someone benched him, they'll bench any other striker. football isn't logic, there is NO cloud for an old school new school forward. u put a great cf up front at his prime, he'll get you goals whether you like it or not. suarez and benzema play with 2 of the best of their eras, that has a major influence, than anything.

even the whole assist thing, people make it sound like they're doing rui costa type passes, most of these passes are the 'easy' passes from a routine counter attack; not a tight defense splitting through pass. great players in their primes don't need a manual to fit in any system

more feelings than logic I'm reading. You may disagree but reality will continue to betray you. you will find classic 9s in the smaller teams and the mid clubs. but we're not competing for a top half finish or 4th place are we? If you want to be a successful team in this era. classic 9s just won't cut it.

Those passes you mention are the difference between a semis finish and WINNER in the CL.
Every advantage matters. every edge counts. there will always be margins for error which is why you do your best to have every advantage possible. yes there has only been 3 winners in the past five years. HMMM, I WONDER WHY????? Maybe its because Real Madrid and Barcelona simply know better than the rest of the world, you included?

Why do you think Barcelona no longer signs Classic 9s since Alcacer? how IS alcacer doing btw?
not that good. I wonder why is that?

speaking of Real Madrid, our entire starting lineup is capable of scoring goals. defense, midfield, attack can do it. what happens when you have a team whom the majority can score? The role of the Classic 9 diminishes to the point that it becomes OBSOLETE. All Classic 9s can do is score. beyond scoring, they're dead weight. CR7 when he arrived killed and buried the Classic 9 role in Real Madrid. such a role is OBSOLETE and does not belong here. We face ptb teams on a regular basis, a style where classic 9s are also diminished as they are heavily restricted going forward and since they dont contribute to the build up play, the classic 9 becomes a cancer to his own team. its why Bale struggles. If Bale were to be fully converted to a CF he would most definitely be a classic 9. all he is good for is running and shooting. going by what you say, Bale should be a huge success. tell me, why is Bale struggling right now? Why does Bale look like he doesn't belong here?

when breaking down teams who ptb it is more wiser to have false 9s or modern forwards to break said defenses down. more passes, more linkup, more movement opens spaces and with multiple players making runs forces defense to commit and make mistakes. classic 9s are easier to mark than false 9s or modern cfs. classic 9s dont drop deep, dont get involved in the build up, dont hold the ball. false 9s and modern cfs does what classic 9s dont and it makes a world of a difference.

by dropping deep you force the cb to either follow you or stay where he is and depending on the next 2 passes as well as the positioning of teammates will decide whether the said cb made a mistake or did good. can hold the ball so that the rest of the team can get in good spots or pass to someone who can make a better decision with the ball. linking up the attack and the midfield to ensure we dont slow down going forward as we attempt to break through the defense while having our opponents chasing the ball.

you're telling me for a top team like Real Madrid, you want a type of player who gives unnecessary burdens to the midfield and his partners upfront, just so he can only focus on scoring? classic 9s don't track back either. their focus is only on the scoring after all, even if they miss all their shots. that works fine for the small time. not the big time. and especially not against the big time who has stable midfield and defense. the times have changed, the game has changed. all the other teams are made irrelevant as the winners decide what matters. and Real Madrid has decided long ago that classic 9s are obsolete.

why do i want my striker tracking back? i want him to score goals. you've lumped a bunch of players together and 'conviniently' tagged them 'modern 9s'. ibra, lewa suarez benzema morata auba are all different types of players, that you've just lumped as "modern 9s" for the era they played in. you still haven't given me any example of who you're tagging as this "classic 9".

my point wasn't even specific to real madrid, you mentioned they can't thrive in the modern era, and you mentioned last 5 ucl's, even though the 4 of those 5 have been won with teams with cristiano and messi. did chelsea have a modern 9 (whatever that is) when they won it? initially your argument was about MODERN ERA, but now it has switched to madrid

my point isn't about madrid, its that if you put a great striker in his prime on any stable team, he will fit and score goals. is eto'o a modern or classic 9? cos they won with eto'o and replaced him with modern 9 ibra only to sell him (you categorized ibra as a modern 9).

i think it will bode well to tell us who you categorize as classic and modern. because u've lumped a bunch of players with different skillset in one pot. prime eto'o would stroll into any top team out now if you ask me. its about skill, not 'definitions' like "classic" or "modern 9s".

your argument has a lot of holes. just cos two players are in the same era doesn't mean they have the same skills or are the same types of players

You don't want you strikers to track back... but you do want them to position themselves properly and take up space so the middle of the pitch isn't open and they are an immediate outlet when you recover the ball.

The old school CF days are gone... as long as the 442 doesn't come back. It's more a function of the 433 and 4231 becoming popular that made the CFs play differently. If the 442 becomes popular again, the old school CF skillset will come back in vogue imo.

titosantill wrote:why do i want my striker tracking back? i want him to score goals.

Because it's not about what you want. It's never been about what you want. One team plays one way, another team plays different. one team requires a cf to do this and play in this way. another asks their cf differently.

you've lumped a bunch of players together and 'conviniently' tagged them 'modern 9s'. ibra, lewa suarez benzema morata auba are all different types of players, that you've just lumped as "modern 9s" for the era they played in. you still haven't given me any example of who you're tagging as this "classic 9".

This deserves a more detailed explanation since the definition of a Modern CF changes with the times and unlike you, I prefer not to remain in the past. It wasn't too long ago that the Classic 9/Poacher/Counter Attacking type Striker was considered the Modern CF.  for some that is what it means but for others it could refer to those CFs whom are the complete package aka Complete CFs. Because there is no inherent guidelines as to what makes a modern cf or what defines such, we can only rely on the times and the teams whom are successful to help define such. What is a Modern CF these days? as of September 23, 2017 here is my understanding of what is a modern cf: A CF who can score goals, who can make assists, who can assist in the transition from midfield to attack ala build up play/linkup, who uses intelligence to create space through movements whether it's dropping deep to confuse the cb, moving through the channels and making dummy runs, or by simply creating own space through dribbling or spark of genius.

I reckon a Complete CF is a more accurate description but I believe that complete cfs are becoming more of the standard over the years. I look at the top cfs of the world and it isn't quite simply the same as it was 10-15 years ago anymore.

Crespo, Van Nistelrooy, Barcelona's Eto'o, Torres, Roy Makaay, Trezeguet, Pauleta.... there were many great classic 9s back then. R9, Henry, Shevchenko, Ibrahimovic (damn this guy outlasted them all) such were the complete cfs of the world back then.

Michael owen is a good example of what the classic 9 is. Essentially a pure 9 striker/poacher who also is labeled as a counter attacking striker as you usually find these strikers in counter attacking setups. these forwards contribute absolutely nothing when in defense and in transition from midfield to attack. these strikers are strictly strikers. the team should only pass the ball to this kind of cf if it's the final ball and he has a goalscoring opportunity. the only thing these cfs focus on is scoring goals. that means no tracking back. little to no linkup. they try to stay with the last cb, roam about looking to break away at a moments notice, or if they lack speed, timing their positioning and runs so that they will always be available to execute the final play which is the moment the cf must shoot.

compared to the current times.... how many Classic 9s are left that are at the top of the world?
times have changed. Ibra is still around. Benzema before his decline was an established complete cf who can do it all like ibra like R9. Suarez is the same. He can score, he can assist, he can playmake he can dribble. they can do it all! Lewandowski while doesn't dribble like Suarez is more simliar to Benzema but with a more lethal touch so I am told. though personally I don't think he is more lethal than Benz in his prime from what I observe. Aubameyang switched from winger to striker to winger then finally striker. he USED to be a classic 9 in his earlier days when he was a st in transition but he does the duties typical of a modern cf nowadays. he may not be that good in the link up and hold up but he tries and thats what matters. he is trying to play modern and that is what defines cfs. has become quite good if you ask me.

Morata has changed in his final season with Real Madrid. clearly he took notes from Benzema as while he did attack more he also adopted some of Benzema's play. from the middle of the season towards the end his linkup play and contributions to the transition of midfield has steadily improved. and you can now see this at chelsea. Morata has transformed into a modern cf and is becoming more complete as time goes by. Morata took long enough but he finally learned what he was lacking and is now working towards the path he needs to go. and having scored the minimum of 20 goals with us, he can finally be considered an elite striker. he will be a great success in chelsea. I wish him the best.

Higuain at Juventus > Higuain at Real Madrid. The difference is like night and day. too bad his shit mentality and legendary choker status hasn't changed but the current higuain is that of a modern one. no longer focusing on just the goals, he too helps out in the linkup and in the transition. kinda sad in retrospect, that it took so long for him to evolve. but I recognise he is no longer the same idiot i criticized when it came to being deadweight when not scoring.
now he is just an idiot who can't score when the pressure hits the fan. but at least he isn't dead weight anymore.

my point wasn't even specific to real madrid, you mentioned they can't thrive in the modern era, and you mentioned last 5 ucl's, even though the 4 of those 5 have been won with teams with cristiano and messi. did chelsea have a modern 9 (whatever that is) when they won it? initially your argument was about MODERN ERA, but now it has switched to madrid

Thats ridiculous. This goes beyond just Real Madrid, why are you failing to see the bigger picture?

my point isn't about madrid, its that if you put a great striker in his prime on any stable team, he will fit and score goals. is eto'o a modern or classic 9? cos they won with eto'o and replaced him with modern 9 ibra only to sell him (you categorized ibra as a modern 9).

i think it will bode well to tell us who you categorize as classic and modern. because u've lumped a bunch of players with different skillset in one pot. prime eto'o would stroll into any top team out now if you ask me. its about skill, not 'definitions' like "classic" or "modern 9s".

Already did but apparently you're either lacking reading comprehension or you didn't read my post thoroughly enough. so to make sure you don't miss a thing, i have a wall of text going into this in more detail.

your argument has a lot of holes. just cos two players are in the same era doesn't mean they have the same skills or are the same types of players

Projection is a scary thing. Sorry but in terms of arguments, I'm the only one who actually presented his case here. you haven't answered my questions or named top class classic 9s. hmmm... wonder why...?  

Times have changed. you should pay attention to the times.

@ sports finally one who knows. well that's half true. Remember however sports that in the case of Atletico, diego costa DID track back as did Klopp's dortmund cfs. like I said, it all depends on the team and what is being asked of the cf.

but lets focus on atletico. What do we define atletico's diego costa as? he is far from a classic 9. he focuses more on aggravating the cbs and the ref more than he does scoring goals. and he is more defensive compared to the other cfs of the world. his behavior is not of a modern cf either. what the hell type of cf is diego costa? plus you have the targetmen and the false 9s. benz can also be considered a false 9 but in his prime he was a complete cf.

but such is the interesting thing that is football. variables are after all relative and never absolute. thats why definitions change with the times as do what are the cfs of today and of yesterday. what cfs do depends on the tactics and tactics always change over time. changing roles, changing demands. the only thing we can believe with absolute certainty... is the result imo. for the result decides what stays or what changes.

i vehemently disagree. if you're a good cf, in your prime, with high iq you would fit into any good team or system, like a glove. for me, its about the individual and their ability to acclimatize in any habitat. you mentioned eto'o and ruud in your list of poachers/classic 9. ruud at utd was completely different from ruud at madrid (even tho i feel he was better at utd), he did all the fancy link up things that fans like (until injuries got him) semi-rejuvenated raul's career. cos he's a good footballer and blended into the system or lack thereof (at madrid)

eto'o wasn't a poacher at mallorca, he was doing the "complete" stuff fans like. aragonez of all people loved that dude; look up eto'o at mallorca. he changed his game to fit with ronaldinho et al. and i believe prime eto'o could walk into almost any top team....or is morata now better than them cos of his skillset?

i'm not saying i want a bunch of gary linekers running around. but poachers have never really gotten any love. linking up is fine, but its still a numbers game, and if u're good, u're good. football (and basketball) is a copy cat sport, we go with trends. they see goat-like players playing as wing forwards, then every coach wants their players to play opposing flanks (even though they're not good at it)

and the higuain at juve vs higuain at real isn't clear cut. iirc, he had our most assists in the 08/09 season, carrying a rickety raul, then he became a poacher when florentino came in, and then changed his game again at napoli.....and that's my point, good players can change their style when need be....unless they're past their peaks

and yes, i hate strikers tracking back and getting too tired when i need a goal. i've criticized cristiano but i can't recall critiquing him for not defending. spanish tabloids used to praise raul (after his prime) for tracking back and "working" hard even though he was doing absolutely zero up front

By old school forwards, you guys are referring to the "lazy, don't actually work off the ball" types that just wait for crosses and tap ins? If that is the case, then yes, strikers actually have to be more involved in the participation of play and laziness or poor work ethic is something that really isn't gonna cut it nowadays.

Anyway, agreed with Tito on this. A lot actually.

What I meant is that you had a 10 behind the CF and two wingers in a 442.  So the CF's movements and area of influence were more restricted georgraphically... and he needed to be far more physical and clever with his movements in the area.

As a sole CF, the scope is expanded... and you also need to be more well-rounded and less a specialist.  Takes away from the in or around the box specialization and adds other things as, in essence, the old CF and 10 roles have been mostly merged into one player.

It's just different.  So much so that you can't really compare imo.

In today's game, players need to be able to adapt as tito said. Some are able to do it more effectively than others based on technical ability. Doesn't make a more technical player better... just more adaptable. As an example, I'd take RVN over Benzema every day of the week and twice on Sundays despite Benzema being more technical.

Van the Man was a whole other beast though. Very few could match his efficiency ratio. Heck he was the standard. We're talking about a guy who's bare minimum was at least 30% and was as high as 50% at one point. Cristiano nor mehssi hasnt even touched such ratios in their entire careers. Only hitting up 30-35% max at best.

Van the man would easily displace this current Benz and probably Benz in his prime. His efficiency ratio would be worth the trouble if we had the right setup. And Van the man could score with his back turned. From a good distance too. That's huge against ptb teams. In fact, nobody does this anymore.

It's been a very long time since I've seen anyone do the kinds of nasty goals like RVN did. Classic 9s aren't usually strong, RVN could also play Target man and use his physical ability to not get messed around with. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say RVN was also a complete CF in his own right Though I wouldn't exactly compare with Suarez or Benz. Though imo, in an ideal world, all 9s should strive to be an RVN if you couldn't be an R9.

Too bad the strikers these days are worthless. But is that because the tactics have changed? Or it is because Van the man was in a class of his own? Even in his own time RVN was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of ruthless efficiency. He's the only classic 9 I trust. And even now the top cfs of this world do not compare to RVN in terms of sheer ruthlessness. If lewandowski is considered the most lethal CF around. On a scale of 1-10, lewa is a 7. RVN being the 10. Suarez is a 6. Benz was 7 in his prime. He is a 3 right now. Falcao was the closest at 9 before his decline. Ibra was a 6. Mario Gomez before his decline was a 7 too. But I doubt you guys even remember Mario Gomez

You say that sports but classic 9s are not that adaptable. They're called classic for a reason. Narrow but sharp.

Today's game demands cfs to be able to do more now. Lewandowski I'm told often is the current most "lethal" CF today but even he is on a technical level similar to Benz and he isn't dead weight when not shooting at goal. He assists in the build up too.

In any case what I said still applies. Because nobody can be Ruud, you either adapt and upgrade your overall game to not be limited or you will be playing for mid table to relegation teams. Even higuain transitioned from being a classic 9 to a modern one. That alone speaks volumes of today's game. Choking big games aside, higuain is an excellent scrub killer.

In our team, our setup demands a modern CF as CR7 and classic 9s are incompatible. Also, classic 9s are usually the main goal scorers. CR7 is the main man here regardless of who is the CF. We're setting the standard the more we triumph. What decides standards are results and only results decide the times. And results decide whether tactics are sufficient or obsolete.

You're wrong Tito. Cfs even those with high iq fail from time to time. Forlan failed at manutd. As did falcao. As did Owen at Madrid. As did Torres at Chelsea. Do you know how many talented cfs fail yeah after year? Many. You really don't see the bigger picture huh. If it were that simple, then why don't we have successful classic 9s anymore?

owen didn't flop at madrid. he scored more goals than raul and did it in way less minutes, politics kept him out of the side, when luxemborgo saw he couldn't keep him out anymore (ronaldo liked playing with him), figo became the scapegoat. i liked owen at madrid, he was sharp, and i reckon if we'd have given him the start that team could have done better. we lost very few games when luxemborgo placed him  in the starting slot. but at that point barcelona had an insurmountable lead

one can argue forlan isn't even a poacher or classic 9 in that sense. iirc he had the most assists at the 06 wc, with most goals. he also didn't flop in atleti nor villareal. at utd, he was what 20, 21? new country, new language, and fergie was only playing one cf in ruud.....forlan at his peak was more than a poacher

and torres was done before chelsea signed him, he'd miss the bulk of the previous season due to surgery. and he too when he started missing open nets started talking about "his job is to assist". i think prime torres would make many top sides. all different players. forlan torres eto'o crespo batigol are 9's but even they are different from say garry lineker, inzaghi, andy cole. also different from r9, henry, villa, suarez.

my final point on this, is, players are all different, it depends on how good how smart the individual is, and if they're in their primes. its tough to just put a blanket on it. some players fit in different moulds; romario could fit any of those 3 class of forwards. poacher, classic or modern 9. didn't falcao have an acl injury? that had more to do with his form than classic or modern 9. an acl injury and playing for van gaal (who couldnt utilize riquelme or rivaldo). there's a lot more to a player succeeding and failing than the classic 9 argument; if that's the case those players should have failed at every club they played for no? and some complete 9s have also flopped too e.g. sheva (not necessarily because of their skill, just cos that's life sometimes its thing beyond ure control, sometimes u just suck and don't have it any more. anyways that's my last point on this.

haven't had a good back and forth debate on here in quite a while, at least not since the zidane vs riquelme argument (highly disrespectful and blasphemous to zidane if you ask me. i'm a bit ashamed for engaging in that one).

Falcao interests me the most. why did he decline?
Falcao never relied on speed as he certainly wasn't that fast to begin with. he was also wasn't that physical compared to physical targetmen. he wasn't the best technical player either. in his case, he was just pure intelligence and ruthless finishing. Injuries do not affect intelligence or finishing in my firm opinion. finishing itself is a combination of technique and composure. by all metrics he should have succeeded with manutd. even I expected him to destroy the epl like he did everywhere else. what went wrong with him? a lot is said about injuries but the only ones who suffer from injuries are those who were heavily reliant on speed. Falcao was never fast to begin with and you never lose technique on injuries you only get rusty.

For me he was the last great classic 9. as of right now there is still nobody like him. nobody has that same ruthlessness.

nobody dare mention that punk lewandowski. that punk only had 22% last year.

falcao had 25-35% before his decline

and for RVN 30% was the worst he did in his prime. THATS what ruthlessness looks like.

mehssi for those who care also has 21%.

The Kommander had 15% last season. CR7 always was a volume shooter.

Benz had 16% last season. I personally would like him sold should he fail to match the 20% minimum but for better or worse we're stuck with him. the year before that was 22%.

this is half the reason why I rate almost no one anymore.
Where are the proper elite goalscorers? you can only be considered lethal if you're @ 25% minimum. 20% is the bare minimum to be considered a good finisher.

oh and nick if you ever wondered why I always rated Aubameyang > Lewa. Aubameyang is @ 24% last season vs 22% of lewa. the year before Aubameyang was @ 22% vs lewa 20 % vs Benz 22%.

and yet I've been told lewa > aubameyang   . am I the only one who pays attention to the finer details?

M'bappe is @ 32% last season. far from a classic 9 but scored like a proper one last year. we missed out badly.

Falcao is back to his very best this year.  Looks quick, decisive and lethal.  He's jumping off the screen again.

11 goals and 1 assist on 23 shots only in 8 games.

He's on fire.

Unless he gets injured, this a 50 goal season in the making.

Not like he ever relied on speed to begin with. Falcao is a beast, a true matador. Lewandowski and Suarez are cubs compared to the Tiger that is Falcao. Even have a nickname for him: El Tigre Monstruo. A monstrous tiger of sorts. Forgive me if the grammar is bad, my Spanish was never that good.

Always wanted falcao tbh. With his style, he can actually last at the top till he's 35. cfs who rely purely on intelligence always have long shelf life.