PES 2014

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:41 am

Well they keep championing that gameplay is king and i agree tbh.

They need to focus on getting that right first before anything else.

Fifa will always be more popular and will always sell more, even in PES glory days it did but if they can be good enough where a decent chunk of people prefer it then job well done.

All i can say is after playing PES 2014 demo even if the code is very old its miles better than 2013 and its not even close tbh.

I go back to 2013 now and i feel like turning it off almost instantly such is the improvement, i can't stand it by comparison.

Doubt i'll ever play it again tbh unless mates want to come round and we play some games before going out.

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Post by Blue Barrett on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:28 am

Well, just like I did 2013, 2012, 2011 and the rest, I'm willing to download the demo and give it a try whenever its out(when btw?). I've always kept my mind open about it.

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Post by •MilanDevil• on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:40 am

I honestly found this to be true:

-Fifa is an easy pick up and play game, for gamers mostly. The game is concentrated over speed and strength in players to create a fun fast-flowing gameplay with lots of scoring chances and goals.

-PES has a more tactical gameplay which is meant to be for the hardcore football fans that love to go in depth. The game features many styles of play as opposed to the constant flow of football in Fifa; one moment you see your players moving slowly in an attempt keeping possession, the next you see them eager for a counter attack. The midfield battle is more important than in Fifa.

This is from my experience of playing both games; I have played PES since the ISS, and started playing Fifa at 07.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:01 am

@Blue Barrett wrote:Well, just like I did 2013, 2012, 2011 and the rest, I'm willing to download the demo and give it a try whenever its out(when btw?). I've always kept my mind open about it.
11th for PS3 and 12th for 360.... i honestly hope for their sake they allow you to choose your difficulty level in the main demo though.

The demo that got pulled is set to Superstar difficulty and you can't change it Laughing and while i really enjoy the game its extremely difficult to create chances unless you make absolutely perfect decisions.... hell in some games i can't even get the ball because of how well they keep the ball and press without it on that difficulty level.

I can see a lot of people getting pissed off with that tbh if it happened, PES is usually a difficult game to get used to coming from Fifa at the best of times but when you add that on top of it you are going to struggle to sell it to people who need convincing.

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Post by CBarca on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:55 am

shite game pls go moal

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Post by danyjr on Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:44 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:He's playing on regular lol.... i really fail to see how you can say the AI is meh.

I have been playing computer on Superstar all week and they are dominating me Laughing

I hardly create a chance against them and they constantly have more possession.

AI is leaps and bounds about 2013 even in the leaked demo code.

I'm not talking about vs CPU AI. It is common knowledge that PES cheats on higher difficulties; This was pretty dominant in PES 2012, once you were a goal up CPU would instantly receive stats boots with Luca Toni out-pacing Clichy. That was Seabass covering his arse for his game's many limitations. But the producer has changed since then and I'm not talking about that anyway. I'm talking about every player's awareness and intelligence, knowing when to make a move into space, when to track back, how to cut a through ball and so on. Let's not even mention goalkeepers Sad

Anyway, for me the more important issue is why they have removed the Stadium Edit tool especially at a time where it is more than vital to have it as Konami are not allowed to do any major stadiums thanks to EA's exclusive deals. It sounds worrying to me that Konami or their community managers have not further commented on this issue. Is it due to hardware limitations of current gen consoles or worse, have EA blocked them from doing so? Because once the editing tools and option files are removed from PES that will be the end for Konami. EA did that with NFL and 2K had to drop their title for good.

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Post by Avram Grant on Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:36 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Avram Grant wrote:PES was never that good. Even at its apparent 'peak' with PES6. Massive romanticism because of this 'Master League'. Never enjoyed it. Bad gameplay and terrible entertainment. Give me Fifa any day of the week.

Of course, it's hipster to get on board with this PES movement and revolution against the corrupt EA.
PES 6 wasn't the peak in fact it was the beginning of the end.... so shows what you know really.

Your probably one of those people who find Fifa realistic....
None of them were particularly good - whether that be PES4, PES5 or PES6.

No game is an accurate representation of football. Fifa has always been a more engaging and fun experience than Konami's cheap rubbish.

But PES is Asian and Asian things are cool, right? It's like folk who claim to adore Japanese cinema. Tell me how 'subtle' and 'intricate' it is, and how superior it is to the western world's 'obvious' and mainstream products. Same applies to PES almost exactly.

More of this, please:

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Post by M99 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:48 pm

^This guy Laughing :bow:

Stay mad Mole. FIFA Proud

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Post by danyjr on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:03 pm

That photo is from Italy, a country where PES supposedly sells well. I wonder how the sale numbers are worldwide but I know that in UK FIFA has been the best selling video game for the past 3 years at least. PES is probably not even in the top 20.

I think PES will sell more this year worldwide due to the new engine and the extra licenses they have but EA's aggressive approach in locking Konami from European licenses will eventually kill PES franchise as a whole - if not dealt with quickly.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:21 pm

So we judge a game on sales now? CoD is the best game ever then?

Also PES 2013 sold 10m copies worldwide so its hardly an issue.

The reason i don't like Fifa is because the gameplay is boring, there is zero depth to it and the midfield battle is non existent. Its like playing an NBA game with a football.

This may appease the casuals but not me, for a lot of this generation PES has been crap and i only went back last year but Fifa never has and probably never will capture the brilliant gameplay of the PS2 era.

Anyway.... at last some edit mode details has been released.

Edit Mode will this year allow the addition of both 3rd 4th kits for unlicensed clubs, might not seem a lot but its a pretty big deal for those who make the option files.

Also there's 3 extra fake leagues which can be edited than there was last year, so that's 60 extra teams which can be added to the game.

Also apparently all the other edit mode details will be revealed by the community ( who already have copies of the game for editing purposes) not sure why Konami are doing this but Konami in shit PR shocker.

Also both Be a Legend and Master League info will come this week.

Also the reason the Stadium editor was taken out was because of the licensing push by EA and they hope to stop it in the future and now they are not allowed to use it until further notice.
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Post by danyjr on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:00 pm

Didn't judge. Just said the facts. The trend is quite obvious except for people who don't want to see it. For me it is quite simple, EA are trying to eventually throw Konami out of business with regards to making footy games. With lower sales and fewer licenses every year, you'll have to make cuts on staff and technology and that makes your product fall behind even more at the time when you actually need to step up and put more in to close the gap. While PES/Winning Eleven has a much longer history than the now defunct NFL 2K, it will be a matter of time before the franchise will die (if things go the way they are), simply due to the giant FIFA is becoming. What Konami need to do is to give more and more freedom to modders, not take away things from them. No one likes to play in generic stadiums or play North London Red.

PES 2012 (PS3) first week sales - 410,000
PES 2012 (360) first week sales - 125,000
Total - 535,000

PES 2013 (PS3) first week sales - 178,000
PES 2013 (360) first week sales - 47,000
Total - 225,000

FIFA 12 (PS3) first weeks sales - 1,837,000
FIFA 12 (360) first weeks sales - 1,193,000
Total 3,300,000

FIFA 13 (PS3) first weeks sales - 2,558,000
FIFA 13 (360) first weeks sales - 1,972,000
Total - 4,531,000
As I said the trend is quite obvious. More and more people are switching from PES to FIFA. I expect PES's graphics overhaul to win some players back this year but would it stay for long? How mod-friendly are next-gen consoles going to be and how much power is PES going to give to the editing community? These answers are make or break.

You look at 2K Sports and they made EA drop their NBA Live titles for almost a decade. That's how good they were/are. But it did help that EA could never get an exclusive deal with NBA, otherwise who knows what would have happened.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:23 pm

Oh obviously PES are massively behind in the sales department and probably always will be.... what a lot of people forget is even in PES golden era Fifa still out sold it.

Fifa is just a better marketed product and more appealing to the masses.

Also its interesting you say they need to give more and more freedom to modders.... because that's exactly what they are doing.

Tbh when i first heard it i thought it was just more terrible PR from Konami but now that i think about it then it makes sense.

Also where are those numbers from and what continent? because i now for a fact PES 2013 sold 10m and they are rather dominant in Asia and South America.

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Post by Eivindo on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:39 pm

Fifa and Cod are winning cause the fast paced action is just too addictive. Pes died when they started slowing down the gameplay with each new game Imo. (I loved running with Kaka from midfield and scoring even though its not realistic)
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Post by danyjr on Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:58 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Oh obviously PES are massively behind in the sales department and probably always will be.... what a lot of people forget is even in PES golden era Fifa still out sold it.

Fifa is just a better marketed product and more appealing to the masses.

Also its interesting you say they need to give more and more freedom to modders.... because that's exactly what they are doing.

Tbh when i first heard it i thought it was just more terrible PR from Konami but now that i think about it then it makes sense.

Also where are those numbers from and what continent? because i now for a fact PES 2013 sold 10m and they are rather dominant in Asia and South America.

Yes but they have never been this far behind.

Are they giving more freedom to modders? There is no doubt that the editing tools on PES is what makes the game stretch out to so many other gamers. If the day comes (and there's a real possibility of this happening) that options files can no longer be used on PES then it would be such a shame, and possibly the death knell for Konami. It's the brilliant option file makers who make the game so much more expansive and enjoyable to play.

Now going back to FIFA, are they justified in what they are doing? At the end of the day they have bought the licenses (Konami did not) so do they not have the right to protect their investments? Should the fans not be directing their anger at Konami for not fighting their corner? They're not completely paupers, and I'm sure make millions from the sale of PES. Have Konami become too comfortable in the knowledge that they can just produce a decent game and let the community cover their limitations by creating option files? For how long can they rely on option file makers to bail them out? In an extreme sense, EA may have a right to question the use of option files on PES replicating licenses that they paid for and Konami did not.

I say all the above despite always finding PES a closer game to reality and I want the series to go from strength to strength. However, while the Japanese keep their hands in their pockets, and not compete for licenses etc, we may eventually see the day when PES no longer exists, or becomes a fantastical games with no official players, teams, leagues, comps...when they may have no choice but to re-introduce magic boots, animal heads :facepalm:, etc, to cover their shortcoming.

Also regarding PES 2013 selling 10 million, I think that number is way off because that is almost how much FIFA 13 have sold. I think Konami have sold close to 2 million.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:21 pm

10m was the number that is in their yearly accounts.... they can't lie about it just like how a football club on a public trading can't lie about theirs.

I tend to think the 2m number is what it sold in Europe where EA cleans up.

Also EA are justified.... i may not like it but its business, the strong survive and the weak die.

Yes they are giving more freedom to modders.... they are giving modders in the community early copies to get to grips with the edit mode and all its changes and additions they have made.

Working with them and adding as much features as possible and allowing them to complete the option files for release also some of the modders claim that have already decrypted the ps3 files and extracted stadium models/textures. Apparently, due to the file structure and data types, PES 2014 will be easier to mod than ever before.

I wouldn't just take their word for it but Konami reps have said that new edit mode features will be released by the modding community and not Konami themselves and they are working in tandem with them.

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Post by •MilanDevil• on Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:02 am

I think as long as Konami keeps the CL and EL licenses, PES will stay in the race. I honestly don't want a company like EA dominating the market completely and having no competition at all. From what I experienced (Fifa 07, Fifa 10, Fifa 12, and Fifa 13), EA is the kind of company that doesn't give much attention to their customers.
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Post by •MilanDevil• on Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:07 am

Also, I think Konami will take football simulation to a whole new level with PES 2015. If they are able to produce a great game like PES 2014 on current gen, I can't see why they wont do any better on Next gen. The community manager of PES has promised that they will try to compete for more licenses next year which is something to look forward to next year.
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Post by vivabarca38 on Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:50 am

@•MilanDevil• wrote:Also, I think Konami will take football simulation to a whole new level with PES 2015. If they are able to produce a great game like PES 2014 on current gen, I can't see why they wont do any better on Next gen.
Remember what happened when they moved from Ps2 to Ps3?
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Post by Vibe on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:41 am

I think PES have a chance against FIFA with Mole the hype master backing them over da interwebz.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:02 pm

@vivabarca38 wrote:
@•MilanDevil• wrote:Also, I think Konami will take football simulation to a whole new level with PES 2015. If they are able to produce a great game like PES 2014 on current gen, I can't see why they wont do any better on Next gen.
Remember what happened when they moved from Ps2 to Ps3?
That was very different....

They went into the next generation with a great deal of arrogance after dominating on the PS2.

They just merely ported over PES 6 with slightly upscaled graphics not even bothering to build a new engine for the next generation like EA did.

This time they have created a new engine, which despite it being an early code i already notice the huge benefits it has on this console( not just graphical either) it surely will be even better when used on a console which has a lot less limitations.

They also learnt from their previous mistake of trying to build PES on both current gen and next gen like before,now only releasing 2014 on current gen until they have optimized the engine to perfection.

Not certain it will have the desired effect, but they have definitely learnt from the mistakes they made going from PS2 to PS3.

This generation was a failure though, not moving away from the old PS2 engine until 2013 was obviously fatal.
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Post by •MilanDevil• on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:21 pm

@vivabarca38 wrote:
@•MilanDevil• wrote:Also, I think Konami will take football simulation to a whole new level with PES 2015. If they are able to produce a great game like PES 2014 on current gen, I can't see why they wont do any better on Next gen.
Remember what happened when they moved from Ps2 to Ps3?
That is why they didn't go next gen this year, they want to avoid the mistake. Besides, the new fox engine is created to operate on next gen consoles but is currently on current gen; the transition from Ps2 to Ps3 was the other way around, the engine for a current gen (Ps2) was used in next gen (Ps3).
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Post by vivabarca38 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:11 pm

No way in hell PES 13 had 10 mil buys.It took me most of the time atleast 2-3 mins to find a game on MLO or in a ranked match and sometimes It couldn't even find anybody when in Fifa it takes 30 secs tops.
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Post by vivabarca38 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:11 pm

Read somewhere it's 6m and I think that's true.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:16 pm

@vivabarca38 wrote:No way in hell PES 13 had 10 mil buys.It took me most of the time atleast 2-3 mins to find a game on MLO or in a ranked match and sometimes It couldn't even find anybody when in Fifa it takes 30 secs tops.
That's more to do with Konami's shitty net code more than anything else tbh.

Besides not everyone plays online.... i for example have played one game online Laughing

I'm just saying what's on their records brah.... Konami are a publicly traded company they can't lie about their records.

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Post by vivabarca38 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:18 pm

When did Konami state it sold 10 million copies anyway?And not everyone plays online in fifa too,Not just pes you know.
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Post by danyjr on Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:28 pm

I also have to say I don't believe Great Leader's sale figures - I don't think they are slightly off, I think they are way off. Not saying you're making shit up but the source you've got your figures from must have been dodgy. No way Konami have ever sold 10 million PES copies in a year.

Anyway according to game sales vgchartz, PES 2013 has sold close to 1 million in Europe and North America while FIFA 13 sold more than 5 million in those regions. Obviously PES's main sale is in Japan where it has been outselling FIFA for decades and also in South America where I think they've sold around a million, but FIFA is growing in those markets too.

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=pro+evolution+soccer+2013
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=fifa+13

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