Arsenal 1 - 3 Bayern Munich: Dispatched by a vastly superior team

Arquitecto wrote:Don't know how Arteta can be criticized when he is put into a role which never was natural for him along with the fact that he has no defensive part to pivot alongside of him. His performances in the group stage last season and 2nd leg vs Milan was good enough.

The not good enough is just an excuse. Tactically this was just a mess with players unprepared, everything complimenting Bayern, no one ahead to overlap with the fullbacks, Vermaelen playing a LB role, Aarron Ramsey once again pushed into a psuedo-wide AM role, Walcott being crossed to (LOL) and not leading the line.

This match simply was an amalgamation of poor squad selections and lack of preparation. Arsenal simply made Bayern look better than they are.

Wenger will be prepared at the Allianz, this I know it.

i have a feeling we will play better at the allianz aswell, still go out but i think we will play better

Arquitecto wrote:
Wenger will be prepared at the Allianz, this I know it.

You are too kind in the rest of your post Arq. But +1 to this part.

@REWB, until Emirates doesn't support their team, the stadio will never hold an advantage. Allianz will actually provide a semblance of urgency and motivation that the team lacked today + given that Arsenal away crowd>>>>>>the spectators at Emirates.

Rest players for second leg. Get into top 4.

Worst team I've seen at Arsenal since supporting club in 97.

Samuelj29060 wrote:Rest players for second leg. Get into top 4.

Worst team I've seen at Arsenal since supporting club in 97.

Agreed

RealGunner wrote:

Samuelj29060 wrote:Rest players for second leg. Get into top 4.

Worst team I've seen at Arsenal since supporting club in 97.

Agreed

You know what we miss? A clinical striker and a midfield anchor. Oh wait. We sold them.

I actually think the reason Arsenal was so disorganized and stressed in the first 20 minutes, was the FA Cup defeat on the weekend.

That game was EXTREMELY important in build-up to this. It ruined almost a month of good form by Arsenal. Had Arsenal won that game, Wenger wouldn't act so stressed in presser, the whole team wouldn't play with almost weight of a stone on their shoulder in the beginning, and it could have been different. I don't know about the team selection, but that loss contributed to tonight's shambles.

and Bayern were absolutely fantastic, It's to note other than the goal (which wasn't a corner) Arsenal only had one real goal scoring attempt (Giroud), whereas Munich could have scored at least a couple more.

When your impact subs off the bench are Robben, Gomez, and Gustavu you know you have an amazing squad.

still think you'll get 4th though, mind you.

@Sri It's funny because it's true.

Arq pretty much summed up our whole evening,great analysis.

Good performances:
- Wilshere
- Sagna
- Koscielny
- Podolski (only because he scored)

Meh performances (did very little good or bad):
- Everyone else but Vermaelen, Arteta and Ramsey

Poor performances:
- Vermaelen (Bayern went at him all night and got all 3 goals)
- Artete (not a CL level player)
- Ramsey (just not a good player imo)

Arsenal, as has been the case for the most part in the last 7-8 years, have just enough quality past the pool stage and then get knocked out in the elimination round. Nothing new here. We have 3 top level players in Wilshere, Cazorla and Sagna. That's it. And they're not dominant players... just very good ones.

Quite frankly I don't understand the Arteta critics, I hear he's not a CL player but why? Can someone explain this more further? He defended well and spread the ball well forward, what do you expect more from him?

The better team won.

The 3rd goal was a massive blow. We weren't creating much but were in control and that goal has taken us out of this tie.

Better players are needed or we aren't ever going to get anywhere whether it be the league, champions league or the domestic cups.

Another season down the drain.

I can't understand the Arteta criticisms tonight, either. He's was one of the few players out there showing some urgency in winning the ball back and it wasn't like his passing was off.

He's not Pirlo or Xavi. He's not going to dominate midfields on his own.

urbaNRoots wrote:Quite frankly I don't understand the Arteta critics, I hear he's not a CL player but why? Can someone explain this more further? He defended well and spread the ball well forward, what do you expect more from him?

he defended okay, but thats not good enough for a starter in a top team

"spread the ball well forward" again NOT good enough. im sorry but you need more than just "well" to be a starter in a title challenging team. he is a decent player for sure, but he CANT be starter material if we want to achieve greater things in the future.

urbaNRoots wrote:Quite frankly I don't understand the Arteta critics, I hear he's not a CL player but why? Can someone explain this more further? He defended well and spread the ball well forward, what do you expect more from him?

Scapegoating.

-Paired with god damn Aarron Ramsey in the midfield which NEVER NEVER EVER works out for Arteta since not only the Welshman takes the same passing channels as Arteta, he completely occupies it for no reason.

-The lack of defensive partner for Arteta in a Dual Pivot continues to be ignored and is criminal.

-Fullbacks' doing f**k all in attack leaving only narrow points to exploit vs Bayern.

-People conveniently ignore his performances vs Dortmund (both legs) Marseille and dominating Milan in the 2nd leg.

-No movement from Arsenal.

Defensively he did his job and distributed well enough in the 2nd half.

-Completely came into the game once the incompetent came off for a far more deserving Rosicky, actually complimenting his passes.

urbaNRoots wrote:Quite frankly I don't understand the Arteta critics, I hear he's not a CL player but why? Can someone explain this more further? He defended well and spread the ball well forward, what do you expect more from him?

He's slow footed and doesn't excel at anything. The best comparison is Xabi Alonso... who is equally slow. Big difference is that Xabi has excellent vision and can pick a pass anywhere on the pitch regardless of length. Xabi is also a better shooter and FK taker.

In elimination stages of CL where you meet top teams... you can't really exist unless you are top quality at something.

Tbh, Cazorla is getting his taste of it too. He was clearly outclassed out there. I think he has that extra level though. Just isn't used to his level of competition.

I like arteta as a player... but he doesn't have that extra level. Not many Arsenal players do today.

I wasn't really too upset about today, I came to terms with the fact that we are actually not really a good team a while ago tbh.

You can see it in many games how much we lack quality, these big games are an example we nearly always virtually lose the game/tie within the first 30 minutes. Then proceed to chase the game like idiots giving us the "freedom" to abandon all forms of shape or organisation by throwing caution to the wind.

It's no coincidence that many a big team beat us in the same way over and over again.

I don't really expect much from Arsenal these days...

Arsenal have made most mistakes leading to goals this season in PL. Defensive error every 71 mins. Last season 117 mins

People targeting Arteta is clearly just scapegoating. We as Arsenal fans love our scapegoats (Wenger, Santos, Vermaelen, Arshavin back when he played, etc.), but it's not his fault that he is being forced to do his job with no support or actual partner. IMO, Cazorla has been the worst of our CMs for a number of weeks now yet people only ever say how he hasn't been good, while others get criticized hardcore. I'm not even saying that we should crucify Cazorla, but there's a double-standard there.

I hope Wenger can come up with some magic to prove he still has some tactical know-how over the coming weeks, because he was a real flop tonight.

REWB wrote:we need to bring in players and build a team around jack wilshere, he is our best players by far

that sounds nice and good, but it really doesn't differ from what the club has been doing. players have been brought in.

the problems are/were unwillingness to spend competitively on top players, no variance or adjustments in tactics whatsoever, poor leadership, and the sales of Cesc, Song, and RvP (Nasri and Clichy didn't really matter much honestly, maybe the cumulative effect hurt, but not individually).

When we can change those problems, we will see improvements at the club. Until then, we will deal with the same mediocrity or get even worse.

Bayern may have been "better" but imo Arsenal could have avoided this scoreline if they had stayed more focused. Easier said than done I guess but this tie could have still been wide open had players not gone to sleep at certain times.

Look at it this way, now Arsenal have a chance to go for one of the most epic comebacks in CL history. It's a long shot but you have nothing to lose and imagine if it does actually happen...

Eman wrote:People targeting Arteta is clearly just scapegoating. We as Arsenal fans love our scapegoats (Wenger, Santos, Vermaelen, Arshavin back when he played, etc.),

Most fans do tbh, if i posted some of the things said after matches on the Newcastle board you would be shocked at some of the things said.

Ben Arfa is the only played i have never seen scapegoated, even Cabaye before his injury was called overrated and if we was offered 10m we should sell and now he's every ones favorite and wouldn't accept 30m and Coloccini was called worse than Williamson the other week.

So you are not alone.

nobody is blaming arteta... people are saying that a lot of arsenal players are good, but not good enough when the club plays top teams. Arteta was used as an example.

sportsczy wrote:nobody is blaming arteta... people are saying that a lot of arsenal players are good, but not good enough when the club plays top teams. Arteta was used as an example.

thank you, why people cant understand this is beyond me

just got back from this game an hour ago, it was a good experience to see bayern live even though the result and performance by us was average at best. I thought before the game started we will have a chance as long as we dont make scoring easy for them, and what happened we gift wrapped their goals to them.... maybe with some different tactics we could have evened it more, however it was plain to see bayern are simply several levels better with quality, that isnt deniable imo. One thing that annoyed me was the amount of fouls we conceded, thought of blaming the ref, but its clear champions league is a non contact competition and our players did not have the cunning to avoid stupid fouls.

About players i cant even be bothered critising playres that arent good enough, i will mention someone that is good enough, cazorla, he underperformed and that hurt us

Also have to mention jack wilshere, how good would he be now if he wasnt injured a year and half? he is special, only player today that looked really comfortable for us in terms of going forward. I didnt think there was a more talented player than him on the pitch if im being honest, there our some things to improve however he is so nice to watch play

No Premier League side has made as many mistakes leading to goals this season as Arsenal: it averages a defensive error every 71 minutes. Last season it was every 117 minutes. Chelsea make a mistake only every 190 minutes. But it's not just errors; there's an institutional laxity about the side. After seven minutes that suggested a potential classic, a wounded

Arsenal hurling itself at a sleek Bayern, the flaws came to the fore.
The first goal (Toni Kroos in the seventh) was permitted by a litany of errors. First Per Mertesacker, who had a horrible night, aimlessly hoofed a long ball forward having received it under no pressure. That needlessly ceded possession. Bayern worked the ball to Thomas Muller in space on the right. Why was the space there? Largely because Mertesacker's poor clearance had led to Arsenal's forward being caught upfield, although you wonder whether Lukas Podolski might have done more to get back.

Muller hit an awkward bouncing cross -- a poor cross, frankly -- along the top of the 18-yard box. Aaron Ramsey, having come too deep (arguably less his fault than one of the center backs, who, facing the play, must have recognized there was nobody in the box for him to pick up, and so he needed to be positioned to cut out any pull-back to a runner) wagged a foot at it a little tamely. Perhaps it's over-critical to blame him for that because he was having to change direction, but it looked weak. Mertesacker dawdled in coming out to Kroos, who attacked the ball untroubled by Mikel Arteta, who presumably was supposed to be picking him up, and then half-turned his back. There was no glaring error, but the goal was the result of a beautiful strike and an accumulation of minor lapses.

The second (Muller in the 21st) was even worse. All goals count the same of course, but to concede to a set play against a side as good on the ball as Bayern is galling, like the gunslinger who survives the shootout but then falls down the stairs. Again there was an accumulation of errors. Arsenal marks zonally, and the corner was delivered to Ramsey's zone: he failed to attack it. Mertesacker was standing closest to Van Buyten when he began his run so he could, conceivably, have tracked him once he saw where the corner was directed. And after goalie Wojciech Szczesny had made the initial save, Arteta failed to react as Muller slammed in the loose ball.

There could easily have been a third before halftime. Podolski failed to follow a forward surge from Philipp Lahm -- he has become notorious for not tracking and was at least partly responsible for Andre Santos' disintegration because of the lack of support he offered -- allowing the fullback to cross. He picked out Mario Mandzukic, who happily skipped between Mertesacker and Laurent Koscielny, but headed just wide.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130219/arsenal-bayern-munich-champions-league/#ixzz2LOjWeReW

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Pretty good analysis of our defending

We are just not good enough, no need to get frustrated anymore. I think any other EPL team would have put up better performance and would have been ready for the game. Our wage bill is higher than Bayern Munich's and only Jack could get in to their team.

i just want this season to be over.