Do you believe Illuminati are real?

VivaStPauli wrote:The tin-foil hat is strong in the last few posts in here.

That's what they want you to think. /troll

Anyway, anyone here read 1984 by Orwell? A lot of the Illuminati conspiracies seem to have taken stuff from his novel, which is quite a masterpiece.

Senor Penguin wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:The tin-foil hat is strong in the last few posts in here.

That's what they want you to think. /troll

Anyway, anyone here read 1984 by Orwell? A lot of the Illuminati conspiracies seem to have taken stuff from his novel, which is quite a masterpiece.

Orwell could've taken the idea from somewhere too. Conspiracies have been here long before Orwell. And yes the book is a masterpiece and a must read. The film is not really great but still not that awful.

Aensensen wrote:

Senor Penguin wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:The tin-foil hat is strong in the last few posts in here.

That's what they want you to think. /troll

Anyway, anyone here read 1984 by Orwell? A lot of the Illuminati conspiracies seem to have taken stuff from his novel, which is quite a masterpiece.

Orwell could've taken the idea from somewhere too. Conspiracies have been here long before Orwell. And yes the book is a masterpiece and a must read. The film is not really great but still not that awful.

Yevgeny Zamyatin's "We" was one of Orwell's inspirations and the plot in 1984 makes it quite obvious. I'm pretty sure Aldous Huxley took inspiration from Zamyatin as well for "Brave New World".

England is heading towards Orwell's 1984 ideas atm

my penis is a 33rd degree mason :bball:

djellisdee wrote:my penis is a 33rd degree mason :bball:

doesn't mean shit if it isn't illuminati

Nope, I don't.

Chávez is just so anti-Illuminati, they wouldn't have let him live for long.

Plus everyone hates the States nowadays. How does that help world domination :vagi:?

Ganso wrote:Viva,if they didn't believe in Satan then what's up with all the satanic symbolism?

What satanic symbolism?
Proper source, please.

Ok, maybe the title of this thread is wrong. Instead of "Do you BELIEVE Illuminati are real" the title should be "Do you THINK Illuminati are real". This way probably more people would discuss an opinion based on something, not only state their belief.

There is nothing to "believe" with Illuminati - you either research, or you don't. But if you research than you have to take credible sources since there's a lot of bullsh!t online.

Read this Chapter from one book I found. I think it will illuminate quite well some things about how Illuminati started. Even Viva might think it's useful after he himself did research on the historic group of Illuminati form Bavaria.

Link: http://www.thesecrethistoryoftheworld.com/chapter26.pdf

This chapter might also clear up any misconceptions about the Free Masonry people had (and the connection between Illuminati and the Masons), so all the more reason to read.

That source is too normative in character for my liking. It uses too many adjectives to be taken seriously. It uses too many instances of "best", "worst", and makes assumptions on the motives of the persons involved based on absolutely nothing... I don't like it, also it contradicts quite a few things I read in proper history books.

Of course hundreds of historic authors mart be part to the Illuminati conspiracy, but if I go and assume that, then truly nothing is real, and everything is permitted. And it's just impossible to argue logically under such conditions.

Just a few points: The Illuminati never even pretended to give two shits about sprituality, they were always proclaimed followers of enlightenment, and the usage of the term "anarchistic", as well as "nihilistic" in "The Secret History of the World" is characteristic of someone who doesn't know what either of those words mean.

I am disappoint.

I'm surprised you actually went through the trouble to read that excerpt. I just went on Amazon and judged the book on the reviews. Saved me time.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-History-World-Societies/product-reviews/1590200314/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I read the first two pages and immediatly called bullshit, I couldn't bring myself to read any further.

Also the thread went hilariously quiet when I asked for sources/proof of this alleged "satanic symbolism".

VivaStPauli wrote:I read the first two pages and immediatly called bullshit, I couldn't bring myself to read any further.

Also the thread went hilariously quiet when I asked for sources/proof of this alleged "satanic symbolism".

It seems that there are indeed people in the pop-biz who have a fascination with satanism though.

There's this conspiracy site which has dozens of articles interpreting the symbolism:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/lady-gaga-the-illuminati-puppet/

I don't agree with most of the conclusions the author does but you'd have to be foolish to claim that there isn't a recurring theme in the way Lady Gaga and others promote themselves.

As already shown in this thread: Jay-Z wearing a quote which seems to be from Aleister Crowley:


Crowley, again, appearing on the Beatles' "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" album cover (second from top-left):

Probably from this photo:


Seems that many celebs have a fascination with Crowley, actually.

Don't even bother,when you show it to someone who approaches it with a closed mind the effort is futile.They will always find a way to rationalize,call it ridiculous or whatever...

I put so much time into research thinking I'm gonna enlighten people,open their eyes... What a fail that was...Unfortunately the society is grown not to see,their perception limited by media and other tools used for that agenda.Greatest trick the devil ever pulled was...

Best thing you can do is pretend it never happened and live a happy ignorant life cause there really is nothing you can do.

That's easy to say when you put forth none of your "research".

@Lady Gaga - Rock Stars have played with the satanism themes since the 50s, it's just a way to gather attention. Do you really think Ozzy Osbourne or Ronnie James Dio worshipped the devil?

Hell, Alice Cooper throws on a white shirt and goes play golf once the concert is done.

If I took a picture of the devil himself with his hand over your eyes you would reply in the same manner as you did now.So what's the point...

In the end,either the ones who believe will be a little deceived,or the ones who ridicule the believers will also be ones who let humanity be flushed down the toilet cause they were to ignorant to listen when they were being told they are letting it happen.

We'll have to wait it out I guess...

That's easy to say when you put forth none of your "research"

No,this sentence is the easiest one actually.What I am saying is hard...Do you think it was easy for Giordano Bruno to say the Earth wasn't the center of the Universe?No,and a bunch of little Viva's called the Roman Inquisition burned him at the stake.Which is essentially what you are doing with that smartass thing...

VivaStPauli wrote:That's easy to say when you put forth none of your "research".

@Lady Gaga - Rock Stars have played with the satanism themes since the 50s, it's just a way to gather attention. Do you really think Ozzy Osbourne or Ronnie James Dio worshipped the devil?

Hell, Alice Cooper throws on a white shirt and goes play golf once the concert is done.

Well I'm not saying they necessarily worship the devil. All I'm arguing is that some people in the pop-industry seem to be very fond of satanism and a lot of the bigger artists seem to share the exact same symbolism in their work. Sometimes the same symbolism goes beyond the music industry and even reaches fashion.

That article shows Lady Gaga's producer with the satanist pentagram on his shirt. So it's not necessarily the artists themselves who worship the devil. It might be the people who produce the music and promote the stuff that are behind it. The question is why? As you said it's probably for the shock effect. They might not even be 'genuine' worshipers of the devil but just do it for the sake of controversy and media coverage.

There is a lot doublethink in the music biz, especially when it comes to rock. A lot of rock artists throw up the devil's horns (the hand gesture) and yet claim to be Christians and such. Obviously, as an atheist, I really couldn't give a sh*t about their religious views - satanism or not, still no proof of their 'God'. If 'satanists' have a harmful agenda then I'm certainly against them, even though regular Christians, Muslims and Jews can be just as harmful.

Vibe wrote:
No,this sentence is the easiest one actually.What I am saying is hard...Do you think it was easy for Giordano Bruno to say the Earth wasn't the center of the Universe?No,and a bunch of little Viva's called the Roman Inquisition burned him at the stake.Which is essentially what you are doing with that smartass thing...

difference is that the heliocentric model isn't a conspiracy theory

"never suspect malice where sheer incompetence will do" i believe was the quote

depending on what sort of this crap you believe in though... a conspiracy of rich jews trying to take over the world? eeeeh, bs, but at least it has some merit with the finance sector being central to literally everything these days

pop artists helping to establish new world order through satanist symbolism? no... just... no

Vibe is trolling you, guys.

che wrote:

Vibe wrote:
No,this sentence is the easiest one actually.What I am saying is hard...Do you think it was easy for Giordano Bruno to say the Earth wasn't the center of the Universe?No,and a bunch of little Viva's called the Roman Inquisition burned him at the stake.Which is essentially what you are doing with that smartass thing...

difference is that the heliocentric model isn't a conspiracy theory

"never suspect malice where sheer incompetence will do" i believe was the quote

depending on what sort of this crap you believe in though... a conspiracy of rich jews trying to take over the world? eeeeh, bs, but at least it has some merit with the finance sector being central to literally everything these days

pop artists helping to establish new world order through satanist symbolism? no... just... no

That's grand coming from you cause you clearly have no clue about the elite,their identities and agendas.Incompetence will do indeed...

No,it is not a conspiracy theory,but it was a theory at the time nonetheless just like this is now.Conspiracy theory,Scientific theory...It's a theory.That's like saying a black man can't be compared to a white man cause the difference is a black man isn't a white man...It's a man.

Listen to the lyrics

viva you have to watch videos about the satanic symbols,were not obsessed with this and remember/know every symbol you know

a couple of the things i remember: gaga puts quotes from famous satanists in her lyrics and in her interviews,like from crowley

beyonce:

RedOranje wrote:Vibe is trolling you, guys.

yes,post all that for trolling purposes

VivaStPauli wrote:That's easy to say when you put forth none of your "research".

@Lady Gaga - Rock Stars have played with the satanism themes since the 50s, it's just a way to gather attention. Do you really think Ozzy Osbourne or Ronnie James Dio worshipped the devil?

Hell, Alice Cooper throws on a white shirt and goes play golf once the concert is done.

what exactly do you think satanists do?go to a satanic church and sacrifice animals to the devil everyday?

gather attention since the 50's?what coincidence huh

Vibe wrote:

No,it is not a conspiracy theory,but it was a theory at the time nonetheless just like this is now.Conspiracy theory,Scientific theory...It's a theory.That's like saying a black man can't be compared to a white man cause the difference is a black man isn't a white man...It's a man.

what? i don't even...

conspiracy theories are like a modern equivalent of religion... both require a massive leap in critical thinking to compensate for lack of solid evidence and supporters of both claim that you need to "open your eyes" and "stop being ignorant to things that go on around you"... also the "just wait and see that i'm right" part fits

i assume humanity is forever doomed to believe in borderline superstitious bullshit due to our tendencies to assign hidden meaning to everything... too bad all this energy isn't focused on research in proper fields, then again biochemistry requires more than watching youtube videos and writing blogs...

VivaStPauli wrote:...I am disappoint.

Ok, I appreciate your opinion. I haven't read the book, just found this chapter while trying to find something about Illuminati. I never knew how to connect the Free Masons (which do exist) with the Illuminati - I read about it in the first few pages of the chapter though - so I thought I'd like your opinion, since you researched it. Anyway thanks for the trouble of reading it

VivaStPauli wrote:That's easy to say when you put forth none of your "research".

@Lady Gaga - Rock Stars have played with the satanism themes since the 50s, it's just a way to gather attention. Do you really think Ozzy Osbourne or Ronnie James Dio worshipped the devil?

Hell, Alice Cooper throws on a white shirt and goes play golf once the concert is done.

Mate, that opinion is only one of two (presently present) possibilities. The other one is that they DO have something with worshiping Satan. I see how ridiculous it might seem that a clown (no hard feelings fans) like Ozzy is actually into Satanism but it's possible nonetheless. If you see recurring symbols somewhere, it makes you wonder why are they there and what do they mean.

Think of all the christian fans these artists lost when they saw satanic symbols. You think they are simply doing it to attract young people or express fascination. If it is an expression of fascination then they must be crazy. These guys are lunatics at best (Satanism, real or not, the rituals are real in terms of hurting animals, children and so on - so the symbols DO represent something). I think they think satanism will help them earn more fame and money. I don't buy that "it's only for the attention".

On the other hand (I have to admit) - why would these "satanists" flash satanic symbols, what will they get with it? If they're satanists, then they can take care of their rituals and whatnot in privacy. Exposing like that is dangerous, right? It could be because they're that obnoxious or arrogant, but that's not enough for an explanation. I really don't know. However it does stink to high heavens.